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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0003950DoomseekerIP2Cpublic2021-12-19 13:572021-12-20 15:46
ReporterZalewa 
Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityN/A
StatusacknowledgedResolutionopen 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version1.3.2 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0003950: MaxMind no longer a viable source of IP2C data
DescriptionMaxMind's GeoLite2 database appears to still be "free" (as in: no payment required), but their current policy doesn't allow you to download it anymore without an account. I tried to create a fake account with 10minutemail, but that was a no go.

Before I create a real account, let's consider the alternatives.
Additional Informationhttps://blog.maxmind.com/2019/12/18/significant-changes-to-accessing-and-using-geolite2-databases/ [^]
Attached Filesjpg file icon geolite2_not_for_dumbledore.jpg [^] (80,342 bytes) 2021-12-19 13:57

- Relationships
related to 0003235closed Integrate IP2C with geoip-database package in Debian GNU/Linux 
related to 0003952needs reviewPol M Embed the IP2C copyright blurb into the IP2C database 

-  Notes
User avatar (0021930)
Zalewa (developer)
2021-12-19 14:04

1.https://mailfud.org/geoip-legacy/ [^]

The "GeoIP-legacy.csv.gz" seems to contain the data in the format we want. The "latest update" also looks promising: 15 December 2021. The DBs are on the CC 4.0 license.

2.https://github.com/wp-statistics/GeoLite2-Country [^]

The DB is in a binary format, for which we don't have the parser currently. The last update also was 3 months ago, which may (may!) mean that this repo is dead.

3.https://ip2c.org [^]

They appear "free" enough, but there's no DB download, no licensing info and no contact info. Contacting webmaster@ip2c.org may work, maybe?
User avatar (0021935)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-19 23:57

Re: GeoLite Legacy: 0003235 / 0003235:0019419. On 2018-08-27, I wrote:
Quote from WubTheCaptain
Looks like GeoLiteCountry (GeoLite Legacy) will also go away starting January 2, 2019, replaced with GeoLite2 Country (free, CC BY-SA 4.0) or the proprietary GeoIP2 Country databases.

Quote from WubTheCaptain
I think this will be tricky to implement for other reasons too, as the small incompatibility between CC BY-SA 4.0 and LGPLv2.1+ licenses would mean binaries could only be distributed under GPLv3-only (one-way compatibility, to my awareness) – if LGPLv2.1+ allows redistributing under GPLv3-only.

Debian did the following changes to a contrib package:
Quote from geoipupdate_4.6.0-1_changelog
geoipupdate (4.6.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium

  [ Faidon Liambotis ]
  * New upstream version.
  * Reflect changes with regards to GeoLite2's availability. (Closes: #948469)
    - Adjust the package description to reflect that an account is now needed.
    - Adjust the default GeoIP.conf to remove the now defunct default account.
    - Add a README.Debian to help guide new users on how to use this package.
    - Add a condition to the shipped cron file to avoid running geoipupdate
      when no accounts have been configured.
  * Stop referring to deprecated GeoIP Legacy products, or Suggest geoip-bin.
  * [...]

 -- Faidon Liambotis <paravoid@debian.org>  Sat, 09 Jan 2021 18:02:37 +0200

Re: wp-statistics/GeoLite2-Country: It's unsuitable for us.
Re: ip2c.org:
Quote from ip2c.org
This service is provided FREE under the terms of the GNU LGPLv3, 29 June 2007

Quote from ip2c.org
This service uses IP to Country Database (csv) maintained by Webnet77.com
http://webnet77.com/contact.html [^]
http://software77.net/geo-ip
[^]
There's a different mail contact address on that page for ip2c.org. However their data source (Webnet77) also poof'd earlier in this year (April 2021, from what I could find).
If I had the radical freedom to choose, I would throw out all the IP2C code and rely on servers implementing and broadcasting country information themselves (I'm aware this is only possible with Zandronum 3.1 right now). The move by MaxMind is an attempt of a power grab, this disgusts me.
User avatar (0021936)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 00:04

Quote from GeoLite2 End User License Agreement
6. ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS.
[...]
 (c) Destructions of GeoLite2 Database and GeoLite2 Data. From time to time, MaxMind will release an updated version of the GeoLite2 Databases, and you agree to promptly use the updated version of the GeoLite2 Databases. You shall cease use of and destroy (i) any old versions of the Services within thirty (30) days following the release of the updated GeoLite2 Databases; and (ii) all Services immediately upon termination of the license under this Agreement. Upon request, you shall provide MaxMind with written confirmation of such destruction.

https://www.maxmind.com/en/geolite2/eula [^]
Seems like a power grab to me, yeah.
User avatar (0021937)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 00:16

My choice would be to keep the user-local database path ($HOME/.doomseeker/IpToCountry.dat?) in Doomseeker, but to no longer ship a binary with a copy of the database blob with Doomseeker as the current terms have become unacceptable for a software distribution like Doomseeker on any platform. Perhaps strip out IP2C auto-update code, or modify that options dialogue to allow entering MaxMind account details (if enabled at build-time, because of contrib) or document how to use geoipupdate with Doomseeker.
I'd rather not touch this myself with a ten-foot pole, but it's a compromise. Anything less makes things more murky from an already murky licensing perspective (e.g. DRD Team distributing Doomseeker without source packages, current binaries needing to be shipped under GPLv3-only instead of the desired LGPLv2.1+, ...).
User avatar (0021938)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 00:40
edited on: 2021-12-20 00:42

I'd also regrettably supporthttps://mailfud.org/geoip-legacy/ [^] for the Windows operating system, although it won't move us forward much to resolve the CC BY-SA 4.0 → GPLv3-only forward compatibility.
The reason why I don't express my direct support to use it for GNU/Linux is that the geoip-database package (latest update 2019-12-24) is not the same (now unmaintained), although there is no interface from Doomseeker to use that data if installed. No idea if geoip-database's OpenDataLicense is compatible with the GPL, although the package and database is free from Debian's perspective.
To use it on GNU/Linux, the geolite2legacy software to do the conversion from GeoLite2 to the old legacy format is free (MIT/Expat). This is fine.
To effectively use Mailfud's geoip-legacy database on GNU/Linux, it'd need to be packaged for Debian (can be distributed via DRD Team repo). This would be plausible with source, except the data is available in a binary format. The CSV is created with yet another GeoLite2xtables software (unmaintained and "not production software"), from the very same GeoLite2 data from MaxMind. But I suppose we don't have a problem using a CSV generated by someone else.
In comparison, the current status-quo with doomseeker-blobs is that we have the original CSV databases too.
Freetard-ism truly is a mental illness.

User avatar (0021939)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 01:09

Sorry for many notes, but I guess if I had to make a point, I don't suggest Zalewa or other developer to create an account with MaxMind for the maintenance of Doomseeker. If the user wants to, there's the geoipupdate (contrib) tool.
If the goal is to create the legacy CSV data (free packaging) for auditing purposes, we need the MMDB sources (account, ugh), then it's complicated with existing tools (MMDB → DAT → CSV) and MaxMind's EULA is quite unacceptable or outright impossible for auditing / reproducing while attempting to maintain an up-to-date copy.
User avatar (0021940)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 01:09

Debian Bug report logs #985457 - geoip-database update
User avatar (0021941)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 01:13

Wait, the modified geolite2legacy source used by Mailfud is not available as free software? It only links to what seems to be the original geolite2legacy source.
User avatar (0021943)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 01:45

Never guessed the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) or CCPA (California Consumer Privacy Act) was MaxMind's reason behind this.
User avatar (0021944)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 01:47

Quote from geoip-database_20191224-3_changelog
geoip-database (20191224-1) unstable; urgency=medium

  * The last free new upstream release :'( Happy christmas.
   https://bit.ly/34XLOxa [^]

 -- Patrick Matthäi <pmatthaei@debian.org>  Tue, 24 Dec 2019 09:46:45 +0100
User avatar (0021945)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 01:50
edited on: 2021-12-20 01:50

To clarify, Mailfud's adapted data is under MaxMind's EULA and so I don't think Doomseeker can use/distribute them in a legally sensible way.

User avatar (0021946)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 02:00

Oh, I really want this to be the last note for now...
I propose the next (free!) Doomseeker release to use 2019-12-24 data (available from Debian sources) and maybe put up an EOL/deprecation notice on the next Doomseeker release. I'd say to not support newer versions, although it will be theoretically possible for the user to do so under an EULA.
Doomseeker 1.3, 1.3.1 and 1.3.2 releases were based on GeoLite2 2019-07-23 data.
User avatar (0021947)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 02:02

But if you want to distribute an extra non-free package "update" for more up-to-date IP2C data under the EULA, that's up to you Zalewa.
User avatar (0021948)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 03:07

Quote from WubTheCaptain
To clarify, Mailfud's adapted data is under MaxMind's EULA and so I don't think Doomseeker can use/distribute them in a legally sensible way.

I meant to say there is no way every user of Doomseeker could possibly accept to the four MaxMind agreements to use Doomseeker with the latest IP2C data:
Quote from GeoLite2 End User License Agreement
1. ADDITIONAL POLICIES, TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

The following policies are incorporated into this Agreement by reference and provide additional terms and conditions incorporated herein by this reference and/or related to the use of the Website:



This Agreement controls in the event of any conflict with the above-referenced documents, except as otherwise provided in Section 7 (Personal Data). Thereafter, for any conflicts among the above 4 documents, the priority and precedence of interpretation is DPA, PP, WT and Creative Commons License.

This is a sneaky license change for anything newer than 2019-12-24. The CC BY-SA 4.0 is the least important license agreement there.
Sorry for making a note.
User avatar (0021957)
Zalewa (developer)
2021-12-20 09:39

We're not removing this feature and we need a more up-to-date DB. If there's no better alternative, I'll start using mailfud.

Quote from Wub
the small incompatibility between CC BY-SA 4.0 and LGPLv2.1+ licenses would mean binaries could only be distributed under GPLv3-only (one-way compatibility, to my awareness) – if LGPLv2.1+ allows redistributing under GPLv3-only.

What small incompatibility? What's the source on that claim? The current MM GeoLite2 DB is on CC-BY-SA 4.0 as well.
User avatar (0021958)
WubTheCaptain (developer)
2021-12-20 10:53

Quote from Zalewa
If there's no better alternative, I'll start using mailfud.

I will be greatly disappointed, if this is the direction Doomseeker is heading to. Fortunately, this is free software where anyone who disagrees can maintain a desired version of the software.
Quote from Zalewa
What small incompatibility? What's the source on that claim?

Compatible Licenses page on Creative Commons website. (CC BY-SA 4.0: Section 1 c; Section 3 b 1.) I'm aware that the previous changes to IP2C helped here (0003537).

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- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2021-12-19 13:57 Zalewa New Issue
2021-12-19 13:57 Zalewa File Added: geolite2_not_for_dumbledore.jpg
2021-12-19 13:58 Zalewa Description Updated View Revisions
2021-12-19 14:04 Zalewa Note Added: 0021930
2021-12-19 23:57 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021935
2021-12-19 23:57 WubTheCaptain Status new => acknowledged
2021-12-20 00:04 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021936
2021-12-20 00:16 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021937
2021-12-20 00:40 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021938
2021-12-20 00:42 WubTheCaptain Note Edited: 0021938 View Revisions
2021-12-20 01:09 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021939
2021-12-20 01:09 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021940
2021-12-20 01:13 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021941
2021-12-20 01:27 WubTheCaptain Relationship added related to 0003235
2021-12-20 01:42 WubTheCaptain Additional Information Updated View Revisions
2021-12-20 01:45 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021943
2021-12-20 01:47 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021944
2021-12-20 01:50 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021945
2021-12-20 01:50 WubTheCaptain Note Edited: 0021945 View Revisions
2021-12-20 02:00 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021946
2021-12-20 02:02 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021947
2021-12-20 03:07 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021948
2021-12-20 09:39 Zalewa Note Added: 0021957
2021-12-20 10:53 WubTheCaptain Note Added: 0021958
2021-12-20 15:46 Zalewa Relationship added related to 0003952






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