0001824: Client option to show spawns on map

(0008965)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-06-09 16:06

I think Dusk has some code ready, but it needs testing

(0008968)
JKist3 (reporter)
2014-06-09 17:00

dont know if this is a duplicate of 0001533... this is for showing the spawns via particle fountain in game, not in the automap.

(0009742)
Dusk (developer)
2014-06-25 14:16

I think the automap feature would be more useful in general because it shows all starts in the map while particle fountains are limited to the player's current field-of-view. On the other hand, fountains let the player see starts more precisely without the need of the automap in the first place.

Do we really need both this and automap asterisks for starts?

(0009743)
JKist3 (reporter)
2014-06-25 14:24

For my uses an automap spawn display is not a suitable replacement for this. The in game spawn displays show where the spawns are in a way you can process much better than using the automap. Also and pretty importantly, the in game displays allow you to play more precisely than without them as you noted.

as far as the automap displays? This is not something I care about one way or the other as I see it of little use. Maybe enough people would want it in addition to this? I certainly wouldnt care.

(0009744)
Esum (reporter)
2014-06-25 15:21

No matter how the spawns are shown I think there should be a server option to disable it (similarly to chasecam) because it would allow the player to see things that weren't meant to be.

(0009745)
JKist3 (reporter)
2014-06-25 16:10

a server option is fine with me. Although since effectively this is purely a clientside display issue, any server option could easily be circumvented by someone who wanted to i would think...

(0009780)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-06-29 11:32

I don't see why we'd need a server option for this. The position of the starts is no secret information. Why should players who look at the map in a map editor get an advantage over players who don't?

(0010067)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-07-29 03:25

I have finished the code for this, I will post a diff when I get the chance to extract it from the code properly.

(0010446)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-10 03:50

I found a better way of doing my solution. This supports teams and normal spawns with minimal amounts of code compared to what I did.

Need a code review:
'https://bitbucket.org/ChrisKOmg/zandronum-stable/commits/f1d53cc9cca768db3a963f6a73e006028e4ee4c2 [^]'

(0010447)
Konar6 (reporter)
2014-10-10 09:47

Is it meant to be off by default? I find this feature particularly significant if it can be enabled by players in competitive modes. It's true that anyone can view the spawns in a wad editor, but that's not comparable to blatantly seeing them in the game itself, and studying the map in a wad editor when the game's just started isn't a viable option in place of knowing the map beforehand or having the spawns shown.

I think you shouldn't be discouraged to make changes to default settings of the game if it's an improvement or feature that players might prefer and is not trivial for new players to find or even know about. If someone doesn't like it, they can turn it off.

(0010458)
Frits (reporter)
2014-10-10 17:36

IMHO I would file this as a cheat command, learning a map and it's spawns is something that takes time and practice.
It's useful to practice but it has no place in an actual comp game.
That's how i see it though.

(0010465)
Catastrophe (reporter)
2014-10-11 06:42
edited on: 2014-10-11 06:44

Imho it should stay off by default, but it should NOT be treated as a cheat command. It simply allows new players to learn the maps faster, it's not an unfair advantage.

As for reasoning behind keeping it off by default is because not everyone in the port is a competitive player. And in cooperative games it is almost pointless to have it on.

(0010469)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-11 08:49

Sounds to me as if it's not clear whether the competitive scene views this as a cheat or not. Can somebody try to find out how the majority of the competitive scene thinks about this? Before we know this, IMO we cannot decide in which form we add this feature.

(0010475)
Dusk (developer)
2014-10-11 11:30
edited on: 2014-10-11 11:32

I think it's dumb to think that something that allows a map to be learned faster by anyone would be cheating. Exactly why is it bad to have a feature like this? Because the current competitive players cannot allow new players to actually having a reasonable learning curve? And they wonder why competition is dying?

That said I agree it should be off by default, though it should have an option in automap settings. This only is of relevance in a competitive setting (or things like map testing).

(0010479)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-11 12:52

Quote
Can somebody try to find out how the majority of the competitive scene thinks about this?

A vast majority don't, and the rest probably don't care. Other ports have it off by default and allow people to turn it on in any mode.

If you want I can get people to support it though if you don't want to take my word for it.

Quote
though it should have an option in automap settings.

Do you mean draw an icon on the minimap as well, or put it in the automap options?

(0010487)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-11 15:26

Quote from Watermelon
A vast majority don't, and the rest probably don't care. Other ports have it off by default and allow people to turn it on in any mode.

Alright, then we don't need to a server option to disable it and just have a client option that's of by default.

Regarding automap: I think either the fountains or marks on the automap are fine, but we shouldn't have both. So, what does the majority prefer?

(0010495)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-11 15:59
edited on: 2014-10-11 16:08

I'd be willing to bet a majority would rather have fountains in game. Of course I'm not opposed to both, but if I had to pick, visually in game is what I'd wager most people would prefer.

EDIT:
I just realized spawn Z heights screw up fountains. I will fix this while waiting for your response.

(0010499)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-11 16:37

Dusk, are the fountains sufficient for you?

(0010500)
Dusk (developer)
2014-10-11 16:53

I'm OK with that.

(0010503)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-11 17:06

Alright, let's go for the fountains then.

Let's talk about the implementation: I think MakeFountainParticleSpawn shares too much code with MakeFountain. How about generalizing MakeFountain instead? Replace the Actor argument of it with X, Y, Z, Height and Radius, and create a new actor version of MakeFountain that calls the other one by reading the five values from the actor.

(0010520)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-12 01:42

Pull request sent.

(0010524)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-12 08:03

Please do not change the indentation / spacings in ZDoom code, but limit your changes in ZDoom code to the absolute minimum necessary.

(0010560)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-12 23:06
edited on: 2014-10-12 23:06

Pull request updated as requested with not tinkering w/ zdoom code:
'https://bitbucket.org/Torr_Samaho/zandronum-stable/pull-request/76/added-cl_showspawns-which-creates-a/diff [^]'

(0010574)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-13 19:28

Please see my comment in the pull request.

(0010579)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-10-14 00:14

Odamex has the feature to show player spawns with particle fountains, and I particularly like it, so I'd be all for this.

(0010582)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-14 16:52

Updated to requested stuff.

(0010584)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-14 18:32

Please see my new comment on the pull request.

(0010586)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-14 21:57

All updated. Hopefully this is good :)

(0010626)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-18 16:43

Almost ;). I left a new comment.

(0010696)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-26 19:44

Hopefully now! :)

(0010711)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-29 14:52

HOPEFULLY NOW! Haha

(0010722)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-29 20:31

Looks good now! I compressed everything into a single changeset, made a few cosmetic fixes (can you try to prevent your editor from adding trailing tabs?) and pushed it.

(0010724)
cobalt (updater)
2014-10-29 20:35

Issue addressed by commit 18fcb3e0651f: Added cl_showspawns, which creates a particle fountain at active spawns (fixes 1824).
Committed by WChrisK [Watermelon] on Wednesday 29 October 2014 10:55:49

Changes in files:
docs/zandronum-history.txt | 1 +
src/m_options.cpp | 2 +
src/p_effect.cpp | 74 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++---
3 files changed, 71 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)

(0011417)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2015-01-18 02:56

cl_showspawns appears to work fine for me.

This issue is already marked as resolved. If you feel that is not the case, please reopen it and explain why.
Supporters:	JKist3 Esum StrikerMan780
Opponents:	No one explicitly opposes this issue yet.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2014-06-09 07:11	JKist3	New Issue
2014-06-09 11:06	Arco	Relationship added	duplicate of 0001533
2014-06-09 11:06	Arco	Status	new => closed
2014-06-09 11:06	Arco	Resolution	open => duplicate
2014-06-09 16:06	Watermelon	Note Added: 0008965
2014-06-09 16:06	Watermelon	Status	closed => acknowledged
2014-06-09 17:00	JKist3	Note Added: 0008968
2014-06-25 14:16	Dusk	Note Added: 0009742
2014-06-25 14:16	Dusk	Status	acknowledged => needs review
2014-06-25 14:24	JKist3	Note Added: 0009743
2014-06-25 15:21	Esum	Note Added: 0009744
2014-06-25 16:10	JKist3	Note Added: 0009745
2014-06-25 22:23	Dusk	Resolution	duplicate => open
2014-06-25 22:23	Dusk	Resolution	open => reopened
2014-06-29 11:32	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0009780
2014-07-29 03:25	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010067
2014-07-29 03:25	Watermelon	Assigned To	=> Watermelon
2014-07-29 03:25	Watermelon	Status	needs review => assigned
2014-10-10 03:50	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010446
2014-10-10 03:50	Watermelon	Status	assigned => needs review
2014-10-10 09:47	Konar6	Note Added: 0010447
2014-10-10 17:36	Frits	Note Added: 0010458
2014-10-11 06:42	Catastrophe	Note Added: 0010465
2014-10-11 06:44	Catastrophe	Note Edited: 0010465	View Revisions
2014-10-11 08:49	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010469
2014-10-11 08:49	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-10-11 11:30	Dusk	Note Added: 0010475
2014-10-11 11:31	Dusk	Note Edited: 0010475	View Revisions
2014-10-11 11:32	Dusk	Note Edited: 0010475	View Revisions
2014-10-11 11:32	Dusk	Note Edited: 0010475	View Revisions
2014-10-11 12:52	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010479
2014-10-11 12:52	Watermelon	Status	feedback => needs review
2014-10-11 15:26	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010487
2014-10-11 15:26	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-10-11 15:59	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010495
2014-10-11 15:59	Watermelon	Status	feedback => needs review
2014-10-11 16:08	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0010495	View Revisions
2014-10-11 16:08	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0010495	View Revisions
2014-10-11 16:37	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010499
2014-10-11 16:37	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-10-11 16:53	Dusk	Note Added: 0010500
2014-10-11 17:06	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010503
2014-10-12 01:42	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010520
2014-10-12 01:42	Watermelon	Status	feedback => needs review
2014-10-12 08:03	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010524
2014-10-12 08:04	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-10-12 23:06	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010560
2014-10-12 23:06	Watermelon	Status	feedback => needs review
2014-10-12 23:06	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0010560	View Revisions
2014-10-13 19:28	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010574
2014-10-13 19:28	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-10-14 00:14	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0010579
2014-10-14 16:52	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010582
2014-10-14 16:52	Watermelon	Status	feedback => needs review
2014-10-14 18:32	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010584
2014-10-14 18:33	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-10-14 21:57	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010586
2014-10-14 21:57	Watermelon	Status	feedback => needs review
2014-10-18 16:43	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010626
2014-10-18 16:43	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-10-25 03:00	Watermelon	Status	feedback => assigned
2014-10-26 19:44	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010696
2014-10-26 19:44	Watermelon	Status	assigned => needs review
2014-10-26 21:26	Watermelon	Status	needs review => assigned
2014-10-27 02:19	Watermelon	Status	assigned => needs review
2014-10-27 02:20	Watermelon	Summary	client option to show spawns on map => Client option to show spawns on map
2014-10-29 14:52	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010711
2014-10-29 20:31	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010722
2014-10-29 20:32	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => needs testing
2014-10-29 20:35	cobalt	Target Version	=> 1.4
2014-10-29 20:35	cobalt	Description Updated	View Revisions
2014-10-29 20:35	cobalt	Note Added: 0010724
2015-01-18 02:56	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0011417
2015-01-18 03:06	Arco	Status	needs testing => resolved
2015-01-18 03:06	Arco	Fixed in Version	=> 1.4
2015-01-18 03:06	Arco	Resolution	reopened => fixed
2018-09-30 23:51	Blzut3	Status	resolved => closed

Notes
(0008965) Watermelon (developer) 2014-06-09 16:06	I think Dusk has some code ready, but it needs testing

(0008968) JKist3 (reporter) 2014-06-09 17:00	dont know if this is a duplicate of 0001533... this is for showing the spawns via particle fountain in game, not in the automap.

(0009742) Dusk (developer) 2014-06-25 14:16	I think the automap feature would be more useful in general because it shows all starts in the map while particle fountains are limited to the player's current field-of-view. On the other hand, fountains let the player see starts more precisely without the need of the automap in the first place. Do we really need both this and automap asterisks for starts?

(0009743) JKist3 (reporter) 2014-06-25 14:24	For my uses an automap spawn display is not a suitable replacement for this. The in game spawn displays show where the spawns are in a way you can process much better than using the automap. Also and pretty importantly, the in game displays allow you to play more precisely than without them as you noted. as far as the automap displays? This is not something I care about one way or the other as I see it of little use. Maybe enough people would want it in addition to this? I certainly wouldnt care.

(0009744) Esum (reporter) 2014-06-25 15:21	No matter how the spawns are shown I think there should be a server option to disable it (similarly to chasecam) because it would allow the player to see things that weren't meant to be.

(0009745) JKist3 (reporter) 2014-06-25 16:10	a server option is fine with me. Although since effectively this is purely a clientside display issue, any server option could easily be circumvented by someone who wanted to i would think...

(0009780) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-06-29 11:32	I don't see why we'd need a server option for this. The position of the starts is no secret information. Why should players who look at the map in a map editor get an advantage over players who don't?

(0010067) Watermelon (developer) 2014-07-29 03:25	I have finished the code for this, I will post a diff when I get the chance to extract it from the code properly.

(0010446) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-10 03:50	I found a better way of doing my solution. This supports teams and normal spawns with minimal amounts of code compared to what I did. Need a code review: 'https://bitbucket.org/ChrisKOmg/zandronum-stable/commits/f1d53cc9cca768db3a963f6a73e006028e4ee4c2 [^]'

(0010447) Konar6 (reporter) 2014-10-10 09:47	Is it meant to be off by default? I find this feature particularly significant if it can be enabled by players in competitive modes. It's true that anyone can view the spawns in a wad editor, but that's not comparable to blatantly seeing them in the game itself, and studying the map in a wad editor when the game's just started isn't a viable option in place of knowing the map beforehand or having the spawns shown. I think you shouldn't be discouraged to make changes to default settings of the game if it's an improvement or feature that players might prefer and is not trivial for new players to find or even know about. If someone doesn't like it, they can turn it off.

(0010458) Frits (reporter) 2014-10-10 17:36	IMHO I would file this as a cheat command, learning a map and it's spawns is something that takes time and practice. It's useful to practice but it has no place in an actual comp game. That's how i see it though.

(0010465) Catastrophe (reporter) 2014-10-11 06:42 edited on: 2014-10-11 06:44	Imho it should stay off by default, but it should NOT be treated as a cheat command. It simply allows new players to learn the maps faster, it's not an unfair advantage. As for reasoning behind keeping it off by default is because not everyone in the port is a competitive player. And in cooperative games it is almost pointless to have it on.

(0010469) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-11 08:49	Sounds to me as if it's not clear whether the competitive scene views this as a cheat or not. Can somebody try to find out how the majority of the competitive scene thinks about this? Before we know this, IMO we cannot decide in which form we add this feature.

(0010475) Dusk (developer) 2014-10-11 11:30 edited on: 2014-10-11 11:32	I think it's dumb to think that something that allows a map to be learned faster by anyone would be cheating. Exactly why is it bad to have a feature like this? Because the current competitive players cannot allow new players to actually having a reasonable learning curve? And they wonder why competition is dying? That said I agree it should be off by default, though it should have an option in automap settings. This only is of relevance in a competitive setting (or things like map testing).

(0010479) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-11 12:52	Quote Can somebody try to find out how the majority of the competitive scene thinks about this? A vast majority don't, and the rest probably don't care. Other ports have it off by default and allow people to turn it on in any mode. If you want I can get people to support it though if you don't want to take my word for it. Quote though it should have an option in automap settings. Do you mean draw an icon on the minimap as well, or put it in the automap options?

(0010487) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-11 15:26	Quote from Watermelon A vast majority don't, and the rest probably don't care. Other ports have it off by default and allow people to turn it on in any mode. Alright, then we don't need to a server option to disable it and just have a client option that's of by default. Regarding automap: I think either the fountains or marks on the automap are fine, but we shouldn't have both. So, what does the majority prefer?

(0010495) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-11 15:59 edited on: 2014-10-11 16:08	I'd be willing to bet a majority would rather have fountains in game. Of course I'm not opposed to both, but if I had to pick, visually in game is what I'd wager most people would prefer. EDIT: I just realized spawn Z heights screw up fountains. I will fix this while waiting for your response.

(0010499) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-11 16:37	Dusk, are the fountains sufficient for you?

(0010500) Dusk (developer) 2014-10-11 16:53	I'm OK with that.

(0010503) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-11 17:06	Alright, let's go for the fountains then. Let's talk about the implementation: I think MakeFountainParticleSpawn shares too much code with MakeFountain. How about generalizing MakeFountain instead? Replace the Actor argument of it with X, Y, Z, Height and Radius, and create a new actor version of MakeFountain that calls the other one by reading the five values from the actor.

(0010520) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-12 01:42	Pull request sent.

(0010524) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-12 08:03	Please do not change the indentation / spacings in ZDoom code, but limit your changes in ZDoom code to the absolute minimum necessary.

(0010560) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-12 23:06 edited on: 2014-10-12 23:06	Pull request updated as requested with not tinkering w/ zdoom code: 'https://bitbucket.org/Torr_Samaho/zandronum-stable/pull-request/76/added-cl_showspawns-which-creates-a/diff [^]'

(0010574) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-13 19:28	Please see my comment in the pull request.

(0010579) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-10-14 00:14	Odamex has the feature to show player spawns with particle fountains, and I particularly like it, so I'd be all for this.

(0010582) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-14 16:52	Updated to requested stuff.

(0010584) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-14 18:32	Please see my new comment on the pull request.

(0010586) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-14 21:57	All updated. Hopefully this is good :)

(0010626) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-18 16:43	Almost ;). I left a new comment.

(0010696) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-26 19:44	Hopefully now! :)

(0010711) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-29 14:52	HOPEFULLY NOW! Haha

(0010722) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-29 20:31	Looks good now! I compressed everything into a single changeset, made a few cosmetic fixes (can you try to prevent your editor from adding trailing tabs?) and pushed it.

(0010724) cobalt (updater) 2014-10-29 20:35	Issue addressed by commit 18fcb3e0651f: Added cl_showspawns, which creates a particle fountain at active spawns (fixes 1824). Committed by WChrisK [Watermelon] on Wednesday 29 October 2014 10:55:49 Changes in files: docs/zandronum-history.txt \| 1 + src/m_options.cpp \| 2 + src/p_effect.cpp \| 74 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--- 3 files changed, 71 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)

(0011417) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2015-01-18 02:56	cl_showspawns appears to work fine for me.