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Notes |
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I think Dusk has some code ready, but it needs testing |
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(0008968)
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JKist3
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2014-06-09 17:00
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dont know if this is a duplicate of 0001533... this is for showing the spawns via particle fountain in game, not in the automap. |
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(0009742)
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Dusk
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2014-06-25 14:16
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I think the automap feature would be more useful in general because it shows all starts in the map while particle fountains are limited to the player's current field-of-view. On the other hand, fountains let the player see starts more precisely without the need of the automap in the first place.
Do we really need both this and automap asterisks for starts? |
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(0009743)
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JKist3
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2014-06-25 14:24
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For my uses an automap spawn display is not a suitable replacement for this. The in game spawn displays show where the spawns are in a way you can process much better than using the automap. Also and pretty importantly, the in game displays allow you to play more precisely than without them as you noted.
as far as the automap displays? This is not something I care about one way or the other as I see it of little use. Maybe enough people would want it in addition to this? I certainly wouldnt care. |
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(0009744)
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Esum
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2014-06-25 15:21
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No matter how the spawns are shown I think there should be a server option to disable it (similarly to chasecam) because it would allow the player to see things that weren't meant to be. |
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(0009745)
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JKist3
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2014-06-25 16:10
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a server option is fine with me. Although since effectively this is purely a clientside display issue, any server option could easily be circumvented by someone who wanted to i would think... |
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I don't see why we'd need a server option for this. The position of the starts is no secret information. Why should players who look at the map in a map editor get an advantage over players who don't? |
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I have finished the code for this, I will post a diff when I get the chance to extract it from the code properly. |
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(0010447)
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Konar6
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2014-10-10 09:47
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Is it meant to be off by default? I find this feature particularly significant if it can be enabled by players in competitive modes. It's true that anyone can view the spawns in a wad editor, but that's not comparable to blatantly seeing them in the game itself, and studying the map in a wad editor when the game's just started isn't a viable option in place of knowing the map beforehand or having the spawns shown.
I think you shouldn't be discouraged to make changes to default settings of the game if it's an improvement or feature that players might prefer and is not trivial for new players to find or even know about. If someone doesn't like it, they can turn it off. |
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(0010458)
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Frits
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2014-10-10 17:36
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IMHO I would file this as a cheat command, learning a map and it's spawns is something that takes time and practice.
It's useful to practice but it has no place in an actual comp game.
That's how i see it though. |
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(0010465)
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Catastrophe
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2014-10-11 06:42
(edited on: 2014-10-11 06:44) |
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Imho it should stay off by default, but it should NOT be treated as a cheat command. It simply allows new players to learn the maps faster, it's not an unfair advantage.
As for reasoning behind keeping it off by default is because not everyone in the port is a competitive player. And in cooperative games it is almost pointless to have it on.
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Sounds to me as if it's not clear whether the competitive scene views this as a cheat or not. Can somebody try to find out how the majority of the competitive scene thinks about this? Before we know this, IMO we cannot decide in which form we add this feature. |
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(0010475)
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Dusk
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2014-10-11 11:30
(edited on: 2014-10-11 11:32) |
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I think it's dumb to think that something that allows a map to be learned faster by anyone would be cheating. Exactly why is it bad to have a feature like this? Because the current competitive players cannot allow new players to actually having a reasonable learning curve? And they wonder why competition is dying?
That said I agree it should be off by default, though it should have an option in automap settings. This only is of relevance in a competitive setting (or things like map testing).
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Quote
Can somebody try to find out how the majority of the competitive scene thinks about this?
A vast majority don't, and the rest probably don't care. Other ports have it off by default and allow people to turn it on in any mode.
If you want I can get people to support it though if you don't want to take my word for it.
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though it should have an option in automap settings.
Do you mean draw an icon on the minimap as well, or put it in the automap options? |
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Quote from Watermelon
A vast majority don't, and the rest probably don't care. Other ports have it off by default and allow people to turn it on in any mode.
Alright, then we don't need to a server option to disable it and just have a client option that's of by default.
Regarding automap: I think either the fountains or marks on the automap are fine, but we shouldn't have both. So, what does the majority prefer? |
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(0010495)
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Watermelon
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2014-10-11 15:59
(edited on: 2014-10-11 16:08) |
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I'd be willing to bet a majority would rather have fountains in game. Of course I'm not opposed to both, but if I had to pick, visually in game is what I'd wager most people would prefer.
EDIT:
I just realized spawn Z heights screw up fountains. I will fix this while waiting for your response.
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Dusk, are the fountains sufficient for you? |
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(0010500)
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Dusk
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2014-10-11 16:53
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Alright, let's go for the fountains then.
Let's talk about the implementation: I think MakeFountainParticleSpawn shares too much code with MakeFountain. How about generalizing MakeFountain instead? Replace the Actor argument of it with X, Y, Z, Height and Radius, and create a new actor version of MakeFountain that calls the other one by reading the five values from the actor. |
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Please do not change the indentation / spacings in ZDoom code, but limit your changes in ZDoom code to the absolute minimum necessary. |
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Please see my comment in the pull request. |
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Odamex has the feature to show player spawns with particle fountains, and I particularly like it, so I'd be all for this. |
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Updated to requested stuff. |
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Please see my new comment on the pull request. |
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All updated. Hopefully this is good :) |
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Almost ;). I left a new comment. |
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Looks good now! I compressed everything into a single changeset, made a few cosmetic fixes (can you try to prevent your editor from adding trailing tabs?) and pushed it. |
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(0010724)
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cobalt
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2014-10-29 20:35
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cl_showspawns appears to work fine for me. |
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