0001813: Original Sound Curve - Compatibility Options - Bug

Notes
(0008843) Dusk (developer) 2014-06-04 07:33	ZDoom 1.23 beta 33 seems to use the Hexen sound curve, the sndcurve.lmp included md5sum-matches with that of Hexen. Odamex also includes the same lump. Though just adding the sound curve lump to zandronum.pk3 with a different name and toggling it with a compatibility option doesn't seem to do what's desired: the sound curve becomes drastic and doesn't have the rolloff-laxing effect that the aforementioned ports feature.

(0008877) Watermelon (developer) 2014-06-07 18:41	I'm assuming Randy decided to re-do the sound engine? If so, I wonder if it's worth finding the distance things would roll off and then adding compat for that? Unless it's not inconvenient to add in whatever was changed. I know that 'reverse-porting' in an old set of sound instructions could possibly be down-right hair-removing.

(0008900) JKist3 (reporter) 2014-06-08 01:55	What happens when hexen is played with Zandronum? does it use the hexen sound curve then?

(0008935) Dusk (developer) 2014-06-08 20:08	Closing: - introducing the accurate sound curve is with the current sound code not feasible - the extended rolloff desired can be modded with an SNDINFO lump

(0008936) Watermelon (developer) 2014-06-08 20:23 edited on: 2014-06-08 20:23	ADDON (even though this ticket is closed): To JKist: This means that you can create your sound with the SNDINFO lump and include it with your wads.

(0023770) unknownna (updater) 2024-06-28 05:35	I decided to look into this recently, and figured out from testing that the old ZDoom/Hexen sound curve fades out sounds after 1900 map units, compared to Doom's 1200. After figuring this out, I can see why this would be very important to you in PvP modes, since the longer fade-out distance allows you to hear sounds from a much longer range and also matches the older, familiar ZDoom behavior. I created a wad for you to test and enable this oldschool behavior back with. The only difference I noticed with the wad is that the most distant sounds from the player are sometimes slightly louder in Zandronum compared to old ZDoom, but that's about it. The distances are the same however. It might just be some sound engine EQ differences. In MAP01 of the wad, you can see the different distances at which the sounds fade out. I couldn't make the extended fade-out work for the player body sounds yet, as using $rolloff doesn't seem to affect them for some reason, therefore I don't consider the example wad complete and suitable for real play yet. The sound system in ZDoom 1.23b33 didn't work anymore on my laptop after some newer Windows updates, so I confirmed the issue with ZDaemon instead, which still works. Quote from JKist3 What happens when hexen is played with Zandronum? does it use the hexen sound curve then? Yes, it does. The basic sounds seem to fade out at 1900 map units after testing. Knowing this, wouldn't this allow us to easily fix this by renaming compat_originalsoundcurve to compat_oldzdoomsoundcurve, and simply extend the sound fade-out distance to 1900 map units from the default of 1200? S_CLIPPING_DIST+700? It should be good enough for Doom PvP purposes. The compatflag is completely useless right now anyway since the original Doom sound curve is in use again. It would be much better to fix this and finally make everybody happy.

(0023781) unknownna (updater) 2024-07-05 19:58 edited on: 2024-07-08 13:44	Ok, I was finally able to make the rolloff work on player body sounds thanks to Kate's explanation on the ZDoom forums here: 'https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?p=537177 [^]' After testing this some more, the main difference between the older ZDoom behavior and the newer one is that the sound clipping behavior for projectiles changed in later versions. In modern ZDoom, sounds travel alongside projectiles a lot more intensely than in older ZDoom. In old ZDoom in comparison, the clipping distances of projectiles are only at their longest the closer you are to them. I also fixed the plasmarifle sounds to make them match the older version where the sounds cut each other off properly and aren't as loud. So the wad is now fully suitable as a replacement for the broken compatflag to emulate ZDoom 1.23b33 until it's fixed. Enjoy. Better late than never. Edit: I fine-tuned the plasma sounds to almost exactly match the older behavior. I found out the explosion sound was too loud compared to old ZDoom, and made both sounds even more quiet after comparing both closely side by side. It's hard to emulate it 100% due to the modern sound engine having more bass EQ and lots of feedback distortion on multiple overlapping sounds. And the sounds are also pitched lower. But it should be a lot more comfortable now.

(0024019) unknownna (updater) 2024-09-06 18:38 edited on: 2024-09-10 15:58	After spending some more time with comparing Zandronum and old ZDoom, I updated the wad once again to accommodate the Dwango5 plasma sounds, which are considerably louder when piled up and thus require to have even less volume than the vanilla sounds. There were also some other sounds, mainly weapon, player death and spawn/teleport sounds that differed from old ZDoom. They were too loud and are now lowered to match old ZDoom. * Lowered the plasma sound volumes even more to handle Dwango5 plasma sounds. * Lowered the volume of other weapons a very tiny amount without compromising perceived volume to remove deep bass from the newer sound engine. * Matched the volume of some sounds that had lower volumes in old ZDoom, such as rocket and BFG explosion sounds, player death and teleport/spawn sounds. And if you wish to get a more similar sound to older ZDoom, set "snd_samplerate" in advanced sound options to 44100. With the default value of 0, some sounds like the plasma explosion sounds are pitched up much higher for some reason. Though, with it set at 44100, the Dwango5 plasma sounds are rather unpleasant. I'll also mark this as acknowledged for now since you can consider the old ZDoom sound curve as being semi-supported through the wad here. Edit: After fixing and matching many of the sounds and play-testing the wad a lot more, I noticed there were still some sounds that didn't quite match after testing more thoroughly, especially world enviroment sounds. Some of the sounds are surprisingly quiet in old ZDoom, and are now painstakingly matched. Matching the volumes is very tricky due to the differences in EQ and rolloff between the engines, and how the sounds have to be matched relative to one another. * Barrel explosion sounds lowered to match old ZDoom. * Lift, door and switch sounds lowered to match old ZDoom. * Rocket and BFG explosion sounds had to be lowered even more to match barrels and old ZDoom. * Rocket launcher fire sound lowered even more to match old ZDoom. * Player death sounds lowered even more due to newer sound volumes to match old ZDoom. * Fine-tuned teleport/spawn sound volume to the new sound volumes. * Item pickup and respawn sounds lowered to match old ZDoom. * Fine-tuned the max amount of plasma sounds allowed. 3+ players can now fire continuously uninterrupted. It should be pretty solid for oldschool PvP now. The monster sounds are still untouched other than having the correct distances, and I don't think I'll even bother matching them for now since there's no point in doing so.

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Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2014-06-04 04:40	JKist3	New Issue
2014-06-04 07:33	Dusk	Note Added: 0008843
2014-06-07 18:41	Watermelon	Note Added: 0008877
2014-06-08 01:55	JKist3	Note Added: 0008900
2014-06-08 20:08	Dusk	Note Added: 0008935
2014-06-08 20:08	Dusk	Status	new => closed
2014-06-08 20:08	Dusk	Resolution	open => not fixable
2014-06-08 20:23	Watermelon	Note Added: 0008936
2014-06-08 20:23	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0008936	View Revisions
2024-06-28 05:35	unknownna	Note Added: 0023770
2024-06-28 05:35	unknownna	Status	closed => feedback
2024-06-28 05:35	unknownna	Resolution	not fixable => reopened
2024-06-28 05:36	unknownna	File Added: orig_sndcurve_01.wad
2024-07-05 19:57	unknownna	File Added: oldzdoom_soundcurve.wad
2024-07-05 19:58	unknownna	Note Added: 0023781
2024-07-08 13:42	unknownna	File Added: oldzdoom_soundcurve_plasmafix.wad
2024-07-08 13:44	unknownna	Note Edited: 0023781	View Revisions
2024-09-06 18:38	unknownna	Note Added: 0024019
2024-09-06 18:38	unknownna	Status	feedback => acknowledged
2024-09-06 18:39	unknownna	File Added: oldzdoom_soundcurve_v3.wad
2024-09-10 15:56	unknownna	File Added: oldzdoom_soundcurve_v3b.wad
2024-09-10 15:58	unknownna	Note Edited: 0024019	View Revisions

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