0001354: Make CTF Flag collision box taller to match sprite

(0006356)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2013-06-01 04:12

Literally changing this: ACTOR RedFlag : Flag 5131
{
    SpawnID 178
    Radius 20
    Height 16
    +INTERHUBSTRIP
    +NOTDMATCH
    Inventory.PickupSound "misc/k_pkup"
    Inventory.PickupMessage "$PICKUP_REDFLAG"
    Inventory.Icon "RFLAB0"
    States
    {
    Spawn:
        RFLA ABC 3
        RFLA DEF 3 BRIGHT
        Loop
    Carry:
        RFLS ABCDEF 3
        Loop
    }
}

To this:

ACTOR RedFlag : Flag 5131
{
    SpawnID 178
    Radius 20
    Height 48
    +INTERHUBSTRIP
    +NOTDMATCH
    Inventory.PickupSound "misc/k_pkup"
    Inventory.PickupMessage "$PICKUP_REDFLAG"
    Inventory.Icon "RFLAB0"
    States
    {
    Spawn:
        RFLA ABC 3
        RFLA DEF 3 BRIGHT
        Loop
    Carry:
        RFLS ABCDEF 3
        Loop
    }
}

Could help drastically. (Obviously the change would need to be made for the other colors too.)

(0006358)
Watermelon (developer)
2013-06-02 17:00

Can you do this in a PWAD?

(0006359)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2013-06-02 18:05

Probably, if you inherit from and replace the flags, and define "height 48". But imho, this is something that should be made stock, for consistency's sake.

(0007061)
Ruin (reporter)
2013-08-22 22:55

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGqLKQUuLMU [^]'

A short clip with said issue. You can see guys clipping through the flag, but they don't pick it up. You have to either slowly drop onto it, or run over it from the opposite direction to pick it up. Sometimes this can be incredibly frustrating during fast paced matches. As you will run over your flag (while going through the sprite) instead of returning it.

(0007062)
Argentum (reporter)
2013-08-23 14:20

@Watermelon: 75 attempted a PWAD fix of this at one point for one of his mods/wads, but regardless of what he tried to do through DECORATE patches he could not change the flag thing properties (this was at least a year or two back and is possibly redundant as of this time).

(0007063)
ZzZombo (reporter)
2013-08-23 16:44

Considering there is odaflags I think it's redundant indeed.

(0009457)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-06-15 16:44

I will investigate now if this is fixable with a PWAD or not

(0009461)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-06-15 16:54

Even if it can be fixed with a PWad, there is still a problem with the stock actor.

(0009688)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-06-22 22:43

Is it possible to inherit the base flag and override that?

ACTOR NewFlag : Flag replaces Flag
{
Height 64
}

(0009690)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-06-23 00:54
edited on: 2014-06-23 01:43

Actually, not really... because the existing red/blue flags inherit from "Flag", not NewFlag. Replacement doesn't change inheritance. Even if it were the case, The one in zandronum.pk3 is broken. Why is the bush being beaten around? It's one line of change of the height parameter, and If there ever ends up being an official Zandro level pack like was originally intended, it should be fixed.

Also, it's kind of a pain that if anyone wants to make a new CTF level pack, they always will have to write a replacement of the current(and broken) flags instead of it being fine out of the box.

(0009693)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-06-23 02:04

Created a pull request with the fixes.

(0009697)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-06-23 03:37
edited on: 2014-06-23 03:40

Interesting, we have a bigger bug than I thought.
Flag actor replacing completely destroys the ability to pickup the flag and makes CTF play impossible.

If you do this:

Actor NewRedFlag : RedFlag replaces RedFlag
{
Height 64
}

This does replace the flag height -- but it can't be picked up. In fact it creates a bug where you can't pick up the flag even if there is a person on the team.

I remember being able to change this in earlier versions, I did it a long time ago. Therefore something has been introduced where overriding the flag fails. This should not be the case, people should be able to set the flag height to anything.

Now, while I do support a newer flag height because running over it and failing to pick it up sucks, this technically will break strategies on maps like IDL map01 where you can drop the flag behind the post to stall the game (strategically). I think Carn included the ZDaemon height just for competitive players.

Again, I support the idea to fix it, but I think it should be done where the users can choose any height.

I will set this ticket to Needs Review because it appears we have a bug that should be looked into.
I am unsure if this should go into another ticket (the bug) since this ticket is about the default flag height.

(0009698)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-06-23 03:43
edited on: 2014-06-23 03:49

Sounds like a rather shitty (and cheap) "strategy" to me. (Dropping the flag where it cannot be picked up whatsoever to troll/stall games. Sounds like cheating to me. Another reason why I found CTF in ZDaemon and stock Zandro aggravating.)

BTW, to get the new flags to work, you need to do some editing in TEAMINFO. Otherwise they'll just screw up.

(0009700)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-06-23 03:50

Also another thing would be to change the actor Flag instead of all the sub flags and then all the Flags would inherit it (in case we add new flags in the future, they would all inherit from Flag).

(0009701)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-06-23 03:52
edited on: 2014-06-23 03:53

Aye, I considered doing that, just dunno what Torr would have thought of it. If asked, I'll revise my pull request.

(0009703)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-06-23 06:11

Before touching such a value I'd like to get feedback from the competitive players. Do you want the default height to be changed? I have seen enough storms of complaints when we touch something people have been accustomed to for years... I see a bunch of people support this ticket. Does this imply that you tested that this height change is really what you want? If so, I'll happily pull Striker's fix.

(0009706)
Edward-san (developer)
2014-06-23 10:32

IRL, you can pick up the flag only from the flagpole, not from the upper part, right?

(0009708)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-06-23 11:43
edited on: 2014-06-23 11:53

But I don't imagine the flagpole is smaller than your foot. (Currently it's only 16px in height)

The Flag sprite is 61px in height, I decided to make the box's height 56px, the height of the player. That's about halfway into the flag itself.

IRL, if you're in a rush, one may hastily grab the pole with a bit of the flag on it, then shift hands down the pole. (Played IRL CTF back in school during Gym Class.)

(0010107)
AlexMax (developer)
2014-08-02 16:31

For what it's worth, many of the people who are in agreement with this on the tracker are competitive players, and I have yet to see someone oppose it.

(0010108)
Ru5tK1ng (updater)
2014-08-02 17:01

A productive step would be to produce a wad to be used on CTF servers to see what proper height should be used. Currently in the process of getting that started.

(0010109)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-08-02 17:58

Sounds good. Please let me know what you find out.

(0010367)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-10-06 20:44

Such a WAD has been produced here:'http://shadowmavericks.com/files/Doom/FixedFlags.pk3 [^]'

(0010376)
Watermelon (developer)
2014-10-07 02:58

Priv CTF sessions were content with the fixed height Rust added.

(0010377)
StrikerMan780 (reporter)
2014-10-07 05:30
edited on: 2014-10-07 05:30

iirc, it's the same PK3 I posted here. I sent him the PK3 in PM a while back.

(0010691)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2014-10-26 07:35

Which exact height was used in the priv CTF sessions? The pull request uses 56 while FixedFlags.pk3 uses 48.

(0011323)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2015-01-07 20:57

So what's the verdict? We are about to wrap up 2.0 and if there is no feedback soon, this will not be included.

(0011326)
jwaffe (reporter)
2015-01-08 01:06

See my previous report.

I support changing the DEFAULT flag height to match the height of the sprite.

'http://zandronum.com/tracker/view.php?id=865 [^]'

(0011327)
Ru5tK1ng (updater)
2015-01-08 03:36

Well CTF has pretty much been played with 48 height and I can't recall anyone complaining one bit (surprisingly). So by default I think 48 is a good height and a vast improvement over 16.

(0011333)
Karakurt (reporter)
2015-01-08 16:35

I strongly support this. Would be cool to have it done for the target version.

(0011337)
cobalt (updater)
2015-01-08 20:31

Issue addressed by commit 888185af6c7e: Changed the CTF flag height from 16 to 48, which will prevent players from clipping through them without picking them up on stairwells or uneven terrain (fixes 1354).
Committed by jordon_moss on Thursday 08 January 2015 16:38:55

Changes in files:
docs/zandronum-history.txt | 1 +
wadsrc/static/actors/Skulltag/skulltagteamitems.txt | 10 +++++-----
2 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)

(0011366)
WaTaKiD (updater)
2015-01-12 05:09

after testing with 1.4-r141207-1419, the flag's height increase is noticed, welcomed, and no complaints to be found

This issue is already marked as resolved. If you feel that is not the case, please reopen it and explain why.
Supporters:	Ruin StrikerMan780 katZune ZzZombo Argentum Toxicity Chronos Ouroboros WaTaKiD Stall Soul rosking swordgrunt Leonard Combinebobnt Ru5tK1ng Ivan capodecima jwaffe Karakurt
Opponents:	No one explicitly opposes this issue yet.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2013-06-01 04:08	StrikerMan780	New Issue
2013-06-01 04:12	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0006356
2013-06-02 17:00	Watermelon	Note Added: 0006358
2013-06-02 18:05	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0006359
2013-08-22 22:55	Ruin	Note Added: 0007061
2013-08-23 14:20	Argentum	Note Added: 0007062
2013-08-23 16:44	ZzZombo	Note Added: 0007063
2014-06-15 16:44	Watermelon	Assigned To	=> Watermelon
2014-06-15 16:44	Watermelon	Status	new => assigned
2014-06-15 16:44	Watermelon	Note Added: 0009457
2014-06-15 16:54	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0009461
2014-06-22 22:43	Watermelon	Note Added: 0009688
2014-06-22 22:43	Watermelon	Assigned To	Watermelon =>
2014-06-22 22:43	Watermelon	Status	assigned => feedback
2014-06-23 00:54	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0009690
2014-06-23 00:54	StrikerMan780	Status	feedback => new
2014-06-23 00:57	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009690	View Revisions
2014-06-23 00:57	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009690	View Revisions
2014-06-23 00:58	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009690	View Revisions
2014-06-23 01:43	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009690	View Revisions
2014-06-23 02:04	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0009693
2014-06-23 03:37	Watermelon	Note Added: 0009697
2014-06-23 03:37	Watermelon	Status	new => needs review
2014-06-23 03:39	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0009697	View Revisions
2014-06-23 03:40	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0009697	View Revisions
2014-06-23 03:43	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0009698
2014-06-23 03:48	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009698	View Revisions
2014-06-23 03:49	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009698	View Revisions
2014-06-23 03:50	Watermelon	Note Added: 0009700
2014-06-23 03:52	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0009701
2014-06-23 03:53	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009701	View Revisions
2014-06-23 06:11	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0009703
2014-06-23 06:13	Torr Samaho	Status	needs review => feedback
2014-06-23 10:32	Edward-san	Note Added: 0009706
2014-06-23 11:43	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0009708
2014-06-23 11:43	StrikerMan780	Status	feedback => new
2014-06-23 11:45	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009708	View Revisions
2014-06-23 11:51	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009708	View Revisions
2014-06-23 11:52	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009708	View Revisions
2014-06-23 11:53	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0009708	View Revisions
2014-08-02 16:31	AlexMax	Note Added: 0010107
2014-08-02 17:01	Ru5tK1ng	Note Added: 0010108
2014-08-02 17:58	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010109
2014-10-06 20:44	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0010367
2014-10-07 02:58	Watermelon	Note Added: 0010376
2014-10-07 05:30	StrikerMan780	Note Added: 0010377
2014-10-07 05:30	StrikerMan780	Note Edited: 0010377	View Revisions
2014-10-26 07:34	Torr Samaho	File Added: FixedFlags.pk3
2014-10-26 07:35	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0010691
2014-10-26 07:36	Torr Samaho	Assigned To	=> Torr Samaho
2014-10-26 07:36	Torr Samaho	Status	new => feedback
2015-01-07 20:57	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0011323
2015-01-08 01:06	jwaffe	Note Added: 0011326
2015-01-08 03:36	Ru5tK1ng	Note Added: 0011327
2015-01-08 16:35	Karakurt	Note Added: 0011333
2015-01-08 20:31	cobalt	Status	feedback => needs testing
2015-01-08 20:31	cobalt	Target Version	=> 1.4
2015-01-08 20:31	cobalt	Description Updated	View Revisions
2015-01-08 20:31	cobalt	Note Added: 0011337
2015-01-12 05:09	WaTaKiD	Note Added: 0011366
2015-01-12 06:30	Dusk	Status	needs testing => resolved
2015-01-12 06:30	Dusk	Resolution	open => fixed
2015-01-12 06:39	Dusk	Fixed in Version	=> 1.4
2015-01-12 06:39	Dusk	Description Updated	View Revisions
2018-09-30 23:58	Blzut3	Status	resolved => closed

Notes
(0006356) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2013-06-01 04:12	Literally changing this: ACTOR RedFlag : Flag 5131 { SpawnID 178 Radius 20 Height 16 +INTERHUBSTRIP +NOTDMATCH Inventory.PickupSound "misc/k_pkup" Inventory.PickupMessage "$PICKUP_REDFLAG" Inventory.Icon "RFLAB0" States { Spawn: RFLA ABC 3 RFLA DEF 3 BRIGHT Loop Carry: RFLS ABCDEF 3 Loop } } To this: ACTOR RedFlag : Flag 5131 { SpawnID 178 Radius 20 Height 48 +INTERHUBSTRIP +NOTDMATCH Inventory.PickupSound "misc/k_pkup" Inventory.PickupMessage "$PICKUP_REDFLAG" Inventory.Icon "RFLAB0" States { Spawn: RFLA ABC 3 RFLA DEF 3 BRIGHT Loop Carry: RFLS ABCDEF 3 Loop } } Could help drastically. (Obviously the change would need to be made for the other colors too.)

(0006358) Watermelon (developer) 2013-06-02 17:00	Can you do this in a PWAD?

(0006359) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2013-06-02 18:05	Probably, if you inherit from and replace the flags, and define "height 48". But imho, this is something that should be made stock, for consistency's sake.

(0007061) Ruin (reporter) 2013-08-22 22:55	'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGqLKQUuLMU [^]' A short clip with said issue. You can see guys clipping through the flag, but they don't pick it up. You have to either slowly drop onto it, or run over it from the opposite direction to pick it up. Sometimes this can be incredibly frustrating during fast paced matches. As you will run over your flag (while going through the sprite) instead of returning it.

(0007062) Argentum (reporter) 2013-08-23 14:20	@Watermelon: 75 attempted a PWAD fix of this at one point for one of his mods/wads, but regardless of what he tried to do through DECORATE patches he could not change the flag thing properties (this was at least a year or two back and is possibly redundant as of this time).

(0007063) ZzZombo (reporter) 2013-08-23 16:44	Considering there is odaflags I think it's redundant indeed.

(0009457) Watermelon (developer) 2014-06-15 16:44	I will investigate now if this is fixable with a PWAD or not

(0009461) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-06-15 16:54	Even if it can be fixed with a PWad, there is still a problem with the stock actor.

(0009688) Watermelon (developer) 2014-06-22 22:43	Is it possible to inherit the base flag and override that? ACTOR NewFlag : Flag replaces Flag { Height 64 }

(0009690) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-06-23 00:54 edited on: 2014-06-23 01:43	Actually, not really... because the existing red/blue flags inherit from "Flag", not NewFlag. Replacement doesn't change inheritance. Even if it were the case, The one in zandronum.pk3 is broken. Why is the bush being beaten around? It's one line of change of the height parameter, and If there ever ends up being an official Zandro level pack like was originally intended, it should be fixed. Also, it's kind of a pain that if anyone wants to make a new CTF level pack, they always will have to write a replacement of the current(and broken) flags instead of it being fine out of the box.

(0009693) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-06-23 02:04	Created a pull request with the fixes.

(0009697) Watermelon (developer) 2014-06-23 03:37 edited on: 2014-06-23 03:40	Interesting, we have a bigger bug than I thought. Flag actor replacing completely destroys the ability to pickup the flag and makes CTF play impossible. If you do this: Actor NewRedFlag : RedFlag replaces RedFlag { Height 64 } This does replace the flag height -- but it can't be picked up. In fact it creates a bug where you can't pick up the flag even if there is a person on the team. I remember being able to change this in earlier versions, I did it a long time ago. Therefore something has been introduced where overriding the flag fails. This should not be the case, people should be able to set the flag height to anything. Now, while I do support a newer flag height because running over it and failing to pick it up sucks, this technically will break strategies on maps like IDL map01 where you can drop the flag behind the post to stall the game (strategically). I think Carn included the ZDaemon height just for competitive players. Again, I support the idea to fix it, but I think it should be done where the users can choose any height. I will set this ticket to Needs Review because it appears we have a bug that should be looked into. I am unsure if this should go into another ticket (the bug) since this ticket is about the default flag height.

(0009698) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-06-23 03:43 edited on: 2014-06-23 03:49	Sounds like a rather shitty (and cheap) "strategy" to me. (Dropping the flag where it cannot be picked up whatsoever to troll/stall games. Sounds like cheating to me. Another reason why I found CTF in ZDaemon and stock Zandro aggravating.) BTW, to get the new flags to work, you need to do some editing in TEAMINFO. Otherwise they'll just screw up.

(0009700) Watermelon (developer) 2014-06-23 03:50	Also another thing would be to change the actor Flag instead of all the sub flags and then all the Flags would inherit it (in case we add new flags in the future, they would all inherit from Flag).

(0009701) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-06-23 03:52 edited on: 2014-06-23 03:53	Aye, I considered doing that, just dunno what Torr would have thought of it. If asked, I'll revise my pull request.

(0009703) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-06-23 06:11	Before touching such a value I'd like to get feedback from the competitive players. Do you want the default height to be changed? I have seen enough storms of complaints when we touch something people have been accustomed to for years... I see a bunch of people support this ticket. Does this imply that you tested that this height change is really what you want? If so, I'll happily pull Striker's fix.

(0009706) Edward-san (developer) 2014-06-23 10:32	IRL, you can pick up the flag only from the flagpole, not from the upper part, right?

(0009708) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-06-23 11:43 edited on: 2014-06-23 11:53	But I don't imagine the flagpole is smaller than your foot. (Currently it's only 16px in height) The Flag sprite is 61px in height, I decided to make the box's height 56px, the height of the player. That's about halfway into the flag itself. IRL, if you're in a rush, one may hastily grab the pole with a bit of the flag on it, then shift hands down the pole. (Played IRL CTF back in school during Gym Class.)

(0010107) AlexMax (developer) 2014-08-02 16:31	For what it's worth, many of the people who are in agreement with this on the tracker are competitive players, and I have yet to see someone oppose it.

(0010108) Ru5tK1ng (updater) 2014-08-02 17:01	A productive step would be to produce a wad to be used on CTF servers to see what proper height should be used. Currently in the process of getting that started.

(0010109) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-08-02 17:58	Sounds good. Please let me know what you find out.

(0010367) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-10-06 20:44	Such a WAD has been produced here:'http://shadowmavericks.com/files/Doom/FixedFlags.pk3 [^]'

(0010376) Watermelon (developer) 2014-10-07 02:58	Priv CTF sessions were content with the fixed height Rust added.

(0010377) StrikerMan780 (reporter) 2014-10-07 05:30 edited on: 2014-10-07 05:30	iirc, it's the same PK3 I posted here. I sent him the PK3 in PM a while back.

(0010691) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2014-10-26 07:35	Which exact height was used in the priv CTF sessions? The pull request uses 56 while FixedFlags.pk3 uses 48.

(0011323) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2015-01-07 20:57	So what's the verdict? We are about to wrap up 2.0 and if there is no feedback soon, this will not be included.

(0011326) jwaffe (reporter) 2015-01-08 01:06	See my previous report. I support changing the DEFAULT flag height to match the height of the sprite. 'http://zandronum.com/tracker/view.php?id=865 [^]'

(0011327) Ru5tK1ng (updater) 2015-01-08 03:36	Well CTF has pretty much been played with 48 height and I can't recall anyone complaining one bit (surprisingly). So by default I think 48 is a good height and a vast improvement over 16.

(0011333) Karakurt (reporter) 2015-01-08 16:35	I strongly support this. Would be cool to have it done for the target version.

(0011337) cobalt (updater) 2015-01-08 20:31	Issue addressed by commit 888185af6c7e: Changed the CTF flag height from 16 to 48, which will prevent players from clipping through them without picking them up on stairwells or uneven terrain (fixes 1354). Committed by jordon_moss on Thursday 08 January 2015 16:38:55 Changes in files: docs/zandronum-history.txt \| 1 + wadsrc/static/actors/Skulltag/skulltagteamitems.txt \| 10 +++++----- 2 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)

(0011366) WaTaKiD (updater) 2015-01-12 05:09	after testing with 1.4-r141207-1419, the flag's height increase is noticed, welcomed, and no complaints to be found

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