0000442: Non-SOLID things and inventory items fall through invisible bridges compatflag

(0005018)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2012-10-07 09:17

I added a new compat flag that lets non-SOLID things fall through bridge things (tentative name compat_oldzcheck, I'm open for suggestions). Please test if this works as intended.

(0005022)
unknownna (updater)
2012-10-07 10:06
edited on: 2012-10-07 10:07

It seems to be working as intended. The players and their flags drop down through the bridge things when killed (and the items in IDL/ZDCTF: MAP04 finally drop down to their proper positions). It couldn't hurt to keep this ticket open for some more testing though.

(0005023)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2012-10-07 10:11

Sure, I'll leave this open for a while then. But do you have a suggestion for a better compat flag name? I'm not really happy with compat_oldzcheck and would like to find a proper name before committing the changes to the source repository.

(0005026)
unknownna (updater)
2012-10-07 10:39

Quote from Torr Samaho
Sure, I'll leave this open for a while then. But do you have a suggestion for a better compat flag name?

Perhaps compat_(old)bridgedrop(s)?

(0005027)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2012-10-07 10:52

compat_oldbridgedrops sounds good. I renamed the flag and committed/pushed the changes.

(0005030)
unknownna (updater)
2012-10-07 13:35
edited on: 2012-10-07 13:58

There's a difference between this flag and ZDaemon's behavior. In ZDaemon/ZDoom 1.23b33, the players/monsters aren't thrusted by blasts when dying on top of bridge things, they simply drop straight down. So if a player dies on the ledge of a bridge thing in Zandronum with the compatflag enabled, the flag might not drop down as desired. Are the flags tossed? If not, then there shouldn't be any problems. This changed in ZDoom somewhere between 2.0.29 and 2.0.30.

On a side note, there's also a difference in terms of player movement on top of bridge things. In ZDaemon/ZDoom 1.23b33, the player doesn't play the DSOOF sound when jumping on bridge things alone. People will notice this difference sooner or later and request that a "ZDaemon bridge physics" flag should be added. This changed in ZDoom somewhere between 2.0.98 and 2.1.0. In Skulltag, this changed somewhere between 96f and 97b.

Quote from ZDoom Changelog
April 11, 2006 (Changes by Graf Zahl)
- Added a check to P_CheckSlopeWalk that prevents sliding when hanging over
  a sloped dropoff.
- Fixed: z-momentum application in P_ZMovement was incompatible with
  the original method. Unless MF2_FLOATBOB is set it must be done before
  applying gravity to momz.

May 14, 2006 (Changes by Graf Zahl)
- Added GZDoom's code for Vavoom slope things because I wanted to test
  something with a map from Silent Steel.

May 22, 2006 (Changes by Graf Zahl)
- Added a check for MF_NOLIFTDROP to PIT_CeilingRaise because the overlapping
  bridges in 007LTSD got moved by this function.

So in conclusion, there are 2 more things needed to fully emulate ZDaemon's bridge behavior:

* Things should fall down immediately when they die on bridge things.
* The jumping shouldn't cause the player to grunt when standing still on bridge things and holding +jump.

(0005033)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2012-10-07 16:03

I think we cannot and should not try to emulate every miniscule detail of ZDaemon's behavior. Flags not dropping through bridge things considerably changes the gameplay on IDL map 04, that's why I started to work an this. But the DSOOF sound and the potential tossing (can somebody test if this happens at all?) are only minor differences (at least I don't see how they noticeably change the gameplay, but feel free to correct me if I'm overlooking something ). For people who don't want to play Zandronum because of such small things, there will always be a reason not to play Zandronum.

(0005056)
unknownna (updater)
2012-10-09 14:52

It seems that players don't toss their flags, so it works as intended.

Quote from Torr Samaho
I think we cannot and should not try to emulate every miniscule detail of ZDaemon's behavior.

Alright, then let us hope that this flag will satisfy the ZDaemon/Odamex people. But I must say that I think it would be wise to emulate certain aspects of ZDoom 1.23b33 thoroughly since ZDaemon and Odamex both use it as their desired competitive standard.

(0005062)
Dusk (developer)
2012-10-09 16:33

Quote
compat_oldbridgedrops

Just a minor nitpick.. all compat flags emulate "old" behavior so the "old" in the compat flag name seems superfluous. I'd suggest just compat_bridgedrops.

(0005068)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2012-10-10 05:17

We could removed "old" from compat_oldexplosionthrust and compat_oldbridgedrops, but IMHO we definitely shouldn't touch compat_oldrandom, compat_oldweaponswitch and compat_oldradiusdmg since they are already included in 1.0, so people are used to these names. Do you think it's a problem if the flags are are less consistent since some keep the "old"?

(0005069)
Qent (updater)
2012-10-10 06:36

Fortunately there are no "new" bridge drops, only lack thereof.

(0005082)
Watermelon (developer)
2012-10-11 02:30
edited on: 2012-10-11 02:31

Could change to:
compat_horizontalthrust and compat_bridgedrops

Does the "oldrocketthrust" affect only rockets? If so, then maybe compat_rocketthrust

(0005084)
Dusk (developer)
2012-10-11 13:07
edited on: 2012-10-11 13:08

compat_bombthrust? P_RadiusAttack calls them bombs. :P

(0005097)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2012-10-14 08:55

Alright, I dropped "old" from compat_oldexplosionthrust and compat_oldbridgedrops.

(0005099)
unknownna (updater)
2012-10-14 10:54

So this can now be marked as resolved I suppose.

(0005124)
unknownna (updater)
2012-10-15 15:25

Quote from Torr Samaho
Alright, I dropped "old" from compat_oldexplosionthrust and compat_oldbridgedrops.

The flags are still named "old" internally.

CVAR (Flag, compat_explosionthrust, compatflags2, COMPATF2_OLD_EXPLOSION_THRUST);

CVAR (Flag, compat_bridgedrops, compatflags2, COMPATF2_OLD_BRIDGE_DROPS);

(0005153)
Torr Samaho (administrator)
2012-10-21 17:12

I intentionally kept the internal names. This is "old" behavior and IMHO it can't hurt to stress this in the source.

This issue is already marked as resolved. If you feel that is not the case, please reopen it and explain why.
Supporters:	unknownna
Opponents:	No one explicitly opposes this issue yet.

Notes
(0005018) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2012-10-07 09:17	I added a new compat flag that lets non-SOLID things fall through bridge things (tentative name compat_oldzcheck, I'm open for suggestions). Please test if this works as intended.

(0005022) unknownna (updater) 2012-10-07 10:06 edited on: 2012-10-07 10:07	It seems to be working as intended. The players and their flags drop down through the bridge things when killed (and the items in IDL/ZDCTF: MAP04 finally drop down to their proper positions). It couldn't hurt to keep this ticket open for some more testing though.

(0005023) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2012-10-07 10:11	Sure, I'll leave this open for a while then. But do you have a suggestion for a better compat flag name? I'm not really happy with compat_oldzcheck and would like to find a proper name before committing the changes to the source repository.

(0005026) unknownna (updater) 2012-10-07 10:39	Quote from Torr Samaho Sure, I'll leave this open for a while then. But do you have a suggestion for a better compat flag name? Perhaps compat_(old)bridgedrop(s)?

(0005027) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2012-10-07 10:52	compat_oldbridgedrops sounds good. I renamed the flag and committed/pushed the changes.

(0005030) unknownna (updater) 2012-10-07 13:35 edited on: 2012-10-07 13:58	There's a difference between this flag and ZDaemon's behavior. In ZDaemon/ZDoom 1.23b33, the players/monsters aren't thrusted by blasts when dying on top of bridge things, they simply drop straight down. So if a player dies on the ledge of a bridge thing in Zandronum with the compatflag enabled, the flag might not drop down as desired. Are the flags tossed? If not, then there shouldn't be any problems. This changed in ZDoom somewhere between 2.0.29 and 2.0.30. On a side note, there's also a difference in terms of player movement on top of bridge things. In ZDaemon/ZDoom 1.23b33, the player doesn't play the DSOOF sound when jumping on bridge things alone. People will notice this difference sooner or later and request that a "ZDaemon bridge physics" flag should be added. This changed in ZDoom somewhere between 2.0.98 and 2.1.0. In Skulltag, this changed somewhere between 96f and 97b. Quote from ZDoom Changelog April 11, 2006 (Changes by Graf Zahl) - Added a check to P_CheckSlopeWalk that prevents sliding when hanging over a sloped dropoff. - Fixed: z-momentum application in P_ZMovement was incompatible with the original method. Unless MF2_FLOATBOB is set it must be done before applying gravity to momz. May 14, 2006 (Changes by Graf Zahl) - Added GZDoom's code for Vavoom slope things because I wanted to test something with a map from Silent Steel. May 22, 2006 (Changes by Graf Zahl) - Added a check for MF_NOLIFTDROP to PIT_CeilingRaise because the overlapping bridges in 007LTSD got moved by this function. So in conclusion, there are 2 more things needed to fully emulate ZDaemon's bridge behavior: * Things should fall down immediately when they die on bridge things. * The jumping shouldn't cause the player to grunt when standing still on bridge things and holding +jump.

(0005033) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2012-10-07 16:03	I think we cannot and should not try to emulate every miniscule detail of ZDaemon's behavior. Flags not dropping through bridge things considerably changes the gameplay on IDL map 04, that's why I started to work an this. But the DSOOF sound and the potential tossing (can somebody test if this happens at all?) are only minor differences (at least I don't see how they noticeably change the gameplay, but feel free to correct me if I'm overlooking something ). For people who don't want to play Zandronum because of such small things, there will always be a reason not to play Zandronum.

(0005056) unknownna (updater) 2012-10-09 14:52	It seems that players don't toss their flags, so it works as intended. Quote from Torr Samaho I think we cannot and should not try to emulate every miniscule detail of ZDaemon's behavior. Alright, then let us hope that this flag will satisfy the ZDaemon/Odamex people. But I must say that I think it would be wise to emulate certain aspects of ZDoom 1.23b33 thoroughly since ZDaemon and Odamex both use it as their desired competitive standard.

(0005062) Dusk (developer) 2012-10-09 16:33	Quote compat_oldbridgedrops Just a minor nitpick.. all compat flags emulate "old" behavior so the "old" in the compat flag name seems superfluous. I'd suggest just compat_bridgedrops.

(0005068) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2012-10-10 05:17	We could removed "old" from compat_oldexplosionthrust and compat_oldbridgedrops, but IMHO we definitely shouldn't touch compat_oldrandom, compat_oldweaponswitch and compat_oldradiusdmg since they are already included in 1.0, so people are used to these names. Do you think it's a problem if the flags are are less consistent since some keep the "old"?

(0005069) Qent (updater) 2012-10-10 06:36	Fortunately there are no "new" bridge drops, only lack thereof.

(0005082) Watermelon (developer) 2012-10-11 02:30 edited on: 2012-10-11 02:31	Could change to: compat_horizontalthrust and compat_bridgedrops Does the "oldrocketthrust" affect only rockets? If so, then maybe compat_rocketthrust

(0005084) Dusk (developer) 2012-10-11 13:07 edited on: 2012-10-11 13:08	compat_bombthrust? P_RadiusAttack calls them bombs. :P

(0005097) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2012-10-14 08:55	Alright, I dropped "old" from compat_oldexplosionthrust and compat_oldbridgedrops.

(0005099) unknownna (updater) 2012-10-14 10:54	So this can now be marked as resolved I suppose.

(0005124) unknownna (updater) 2012-10-15 15:25	Quote from Torr Samaho Alright, I dropped "old" from compat_oldexplosionthrust and compat_oldbridgedrops. The flags are still named "old" internally. CVAR (Flag, compat_explosionthrust, compatflags2, COMPATF2_OLD_EXPLOSION_THRUST); CVAR (Flag, compat_bridgedrops, compatflags2, COMPATF2_OLD_BRIDGE_DROPS);

(0005153) Torr Samaho (administrator) 2012-10-21 17:12	I intentionally kept the internal names. This is "old" behavior and IMHO it can't hurt to stress this in the source.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-05-14 13:30	unknownna	New Issue
2012-10-06 07:41	unknownna	Description Updated	View Revisions
2012-10-07 09:17	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0005018
2012-10-07 09:17	Torr Samaho	Assigned To	=> Torr Samaho
2012-10-07 09:17	Torr Samaho	Status	new => assigned
2012-10-07 09:17	Torr Samaho	Status	assigned => needs testing
2012-10-07 10:06	unknownna	Note Added: 0005022
2012-10-07 10:07	unknownna	Note Edited: 0005022	View Revisions
2012-10-07 10:11	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0005023
2012-10-07 10:39	unknownna	Note Added: 0005026
2012-10-07 10:52	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0005027
2012-10-07 13:35	unknownna	Note Added: 0005030
2012-10-07 13:58	unknownna	Note Edited: 0005030	View Revisions
2012-10-07 16:03	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0005033
2012-10-09 14:52	unknownna	Note Added: 0005056
2012-10-09 16:33	Dusk	Note Added: 0005062
2012-10-10 05:17	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0005068
2012-10-10 06:36	Qent	Note Added: 0005069
2012-10-11 02:30	Watermelon	Note Added: 0005082
2012-10-11 02:30	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0005082	View Revisions
2012-10-11 02:31	Watermelon	Note Edited: 0005082	View Revisions
2012-10-11 13:07	Dusk	Note Added: 0005084
2012-10-11 13:08	Dusk	Note Edited: 0005084	View Revisions
2012-10-14 08:55	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0005097
2012-10-14 10:54	unknownna	Note Added: 0005099
2012-10-14 11:18	Torr Samaho	Status	needs testing => resolved
2012-10-14 11:18	Torr Samaho	Fixed in Version	=> 1.1
2012-10-14 11:18	Torr Samaho	Resolution	open => fixed
2012-10-15 15:25	unknownna	Note Added: 0005124
2012-10-15 15:25	unknownna	Status	resolved => feedback
2012-10-15 15:25	unknownna	Resolution	fixed => reopened
2012-10-21 17:12	Torr Samaho	Note Added: 0005153
2012-10-21 17:12	Torr Samaho	Status	feedback => resolved
2012-10-21 17:12	Torr Samaho	Resolution	reopened => fixed
2018-09-30 21:17	Blzut3	Status	resolved => closed

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