Zandronum

Abandoned Misery is only a single map focused on the Deathmatch genre. This map does, however, requires the GZDoom's OpenGL renderer engine. Thus, anyone that utilizes the software engine provided in the ZDoom engine is out of luck as it can not yet render sloped 3D Objects. This map does work on Zandronum aswell, but requires version 3.0.

I do hope everyone likes this map and possibly see this very map in other projects [just give me some credit for it ;)]



Images





Downloads

• amisery [Using /idgames]

Are the 3d slopes going to be in heavy use/vital for gameplay? If not you can probably get away with making a few visual markers or midtexture sides for us software users.

Combinebobnt wrote: Are the 3d slopes going to be in heavy use/vital for gameplay?

There is some maps that utilize Slopped 3D Objects as part of the gameplay, so there's no way around it. My mind set originally for this project was to focus on GZDoom's OpenGL features, - as majority of users in the ZDoom realm are capable of utilizing or uses the OpenGL as their primary\preferred renderer [1] [2]. Furthermore, I don't think the software render can really be able to handle what I am demanding. After testing Abandoned Misery in the Software Renderer, I quickly noticed some abnormalities that I can't fully understand for myself. I have attached two screenshots so you can see what is going on when I use the Software renderer (this forum software disallows me to place them where I want in this post, so hopefully it is at the bottom?)

This looks great! Hopefully it will work with zan2.0!

Just an update, incase for those that do not check the Development Blog
Here's another update - up to revision 964:

IMAGES ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE!

Meh, I'd rather make it work in Zandronum if multiplayer is such an important aspect of the project, especially one such as Deathmatch. Your choice anyway, but those look good.

yeah what's the point of a DM map pack if the main ports used for DM don't even support it? that seems like a major waste of time.

Ivan wrote: Meh, I'd rather make it work in Zandronum if multiplayer is such an important aspect of the project, especially one such as Deathmatch. Your choice anyway, but those look good.

I have thought long and hard on this a couple of years ago, it only makes sense to focus on the parent port -- besides limiting to just one port and losing out on the newest tools and features, focus on abroad without boundaries. The project focus is to stay native to GZDoom as much as possible so I can take full advantage of the latest features and functionalities available today. TGRDM3 will still be compatible with Zandronum, - but that is when Zandronum catches up to (G)ZDoom code base.

In addition, (G)ZDoom does allow multiplayer environments, so I did not completely cut-out the entire multiplayer regions ;)

This is very old and needs a bit of revising, but this touches what I was thinking at the time:

BlauNacht Plans and Goals (written 04 Dec 2011) wrote: Moreover, further thoughts are arising to base the entire project to be fully native with GZDoom source port. This will allow the development project TGRDM3 to immediately jump into newer features and options that GZDoom has to offer that could take months later to be included into the SkullTag main package. But, however, TGRDM3 will still be compatible with SkullTag.

EDIT:

Ijon Tichy wrote: yeah what's the point of a DM map pack if the main ports used for DM don't even support it? that seems like a major waste of time.

Can you define 'main ports'? To me, this includes (those typically used for DM, omitting ZDoom):

• ZDaemon
• Odamex(?)
• Zandronum

So, if you're asking or implying for pure 'Doom' style with absolutely no (G)ZDoom'ish features, then this is not the project for you. In this case, you're right - this is a major waste of time as I will not bother with ZDaemon nor Odamex.

Decay wrote: Is there a particular map that is compatible, or could be easily made compatible, for promotional purposes essentially?

Despite that this project started back in 2007, the map you see in the topic is only the first map out of the new stock set. So, at this moment, there's not really any complete map within the newer stock set that can be played tested thoroughly with Zandronum. The map I am working on right now faces some known issues with Zandronum:

• Sector Properties within 3D Objects does not get transferred; Some jumping pads will never work
• Missing UDMF functionality; resize
• Compression Algorithm issue; possibly LZMA issue with Zandronum?
  • I couldn't really further tell what else was wrong or missing, as the texture pack for the project could not be loaded correctly in Zandronum

Once I release a developmental version of the map, anyone is free to play around with it. Infact, the post-skeleton version is still available for the time being.

This map 'Abandoned Misery' still needs a lot of work as it is still missing a few elements: Teleporters (not yet implemented, but it is in the layout design -- those metal squares marks the tele's), placements for weapons, health, ammo, and more importantly - DM Player Starts. So there's still much more work that has to be done. But as soon as those are complete and on the DRDTeam Forum's, everyone is free to play-test -- nothing is really held secretive anymore, excluding the SVN Repo and the contents within. I hope I answered your question, I might have - veered into another direction....

If you don't want your DM map set to be compatible with any of the multiplayer ports, that's surely up to you (although I don't immediately see anything in the screenshots that is impossible to achieve in Zandronum). This subforum is intended for Zandronum projects though:
[quote=Forum description]This forum is for maps, modifications, projects, releases and the like for Zandronum.[/quote]
So, to me it looks like this thread should go to the General Chat subforum.

Torr Samaho wrote: If you don't want your DM map set to be compatible with any of the multiplayer ports, that's surely up to you

As I have already stated, I will not bother with ZDaemon nor Odamex. If they update to the latest code base from GZDoom, great, otherwise - its not going to happen for obvious reasons. Furthermore, by the time that this project see's a release (perhaps in several more years), Zandronum should already carry the bare minimum requirements or even all the requirements to run this project... I don't see how any of this is a real problem in which port I am targeting, since Zandronum\SkullTag bases off from (G)ZDoom - and my project is targeting GZDoom, I fail to see a problem here.

Torr Samaho wrote: (although I don't immediately see anything in the screenshots that is impossible to achieve in Zandronum)

I have listed the problems that I have noticed from Zandronum 1.2.2:

Tiger wrote: The map I am working on right now faces some known issues with Zandronum:

• Sector Properties within 3D Objects does not get transferred; Some jumping pads will never work
• Missing UDMF functionality; resize
• Compression Algorithm issue; possibly LZMA issue with Zandronum?
  • I couldn't really further tell what else was wrong or missing, as the texture pack for the project could not be loaded correctly in Zandronum

If you do not believe me, feel free to grab the post-skeleton and the texture pack. Though, do note, the post-skeleton is outdated and probably does not display the UDMF issues.

Why should I need to downgrade my entire project - just to be compatible with Zandronum? Why is it a problem that I want to use the latest features in (G)ZDoom, when infact - Zandronum will be able to support later on? Are you trying to imply that Zandronum will not update to the latest (G)ZDoom revisions\git-revisions?

This confusion is starting to irritate me

I took time away from working on my project - and tested the map 'Abandoned Misery' (revision: 967) with Zandronum 2.0-alpha (2.5.0-2509) 1140112-1124.

Problems:

• 3D Object actions are still not carried
  • Only work around available that I know of, is a hackish ACS script. I am not going to implement this just for one port - when in fact it'll be meaningless later on and adds more issues to the problem. Zandronum will support this later on, so - no need to add a bug to fix a bug (or missing feature)...
• LZMA2 compression algorithm issues with Zandronum(?)
  • If there's a demand - I might re-upload the entire texture base under ZIP standards but with no compression -- as it works for me, and I am not in the optimistic mood to test right now.

You seem to have completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Let me try to elaborate: If you want to use the latest GZDoom features, by all means, go ahead. Nobody is stopping you. The only thing I said was that if you have absolutely no intention to support Zandronum, that this is not a Zandronum project and should not be advertised as such (presence in the Zandronum project subforum implies that it's for Zandronum). Again, this is the only thing I'm saying. Below are just some more comments to your questions and statements.

Tiger wrote:

Torr Samaho wrote: (although I don't immediately see anything in the screenshots that is impossible to achieve in Zandronum)

I have listed the problems that I have noticed from Zandronum 1.2.2:

Please carefully read what I wrote. I just said that what I see in the screenshots at first glance seems to be achievable in Zandronum. I have never said or implied that the way you use currently to achieve this works with Zandronum.

Tiger wrote: Why should I need to downgrade my entire project - just to be compatible with Zandronum?

You do not have to downgrade your project in any way. I never said that. I'm only pointing out that this is not a Zandronum project then.

Tiger wrote: Why is it a problem that I want to use the latest features in (G)ZDoom, when infact - Zandronum will be able to support later on?

It's very different if you try to make your project compatible with Zandronum or if you hope that Zandronum will eventually support your project. You have made it very clear that you have no intention to actively make your project compatible with Zandronum. Once again, this is absolutely fine and not problem at all for me. I'm just saying that a project incompatible with Zandronum and with no intentions to fix the incompatibilities is not a Zandronum project.

Tiger wrote: Are you trying to imply that Zandronum will not update to the latest (G)ZDoom revisions\git-revisions?

This is still the plan, but the fact that we are planning this doesn't turn all (G)ZDoom only projects into Zandronum projects.

Okay, I don't think we're on the same page. -- I'll try to keep - neutral (I am very heated right now).

Torr Samaho wrote: The only thing I said was that if you have absolutely no intention to support Zandronum

What makes you believe that there's absolutely no intention to support Zandronum? As it stands right now, 3D Objects are kind-of the showstopper right now and I admittedly refuse to add a bug to fix a missing feature that will be soon be corrected in Zandronum.

Remember when TUTNT would never work with SkullTag, yet - it worked flawlessly in 97D-Final. Just because it isn't compatible now, doesn't mean that'll always stay - incompatible. My mind is focused on the future, not what is now nor yesterday.

Torr Samaho wrote: that this is not a Zandronum project and should not be advertised as such

So my project will never be compatible with Zandronum - ever? And when Zandronum supports what my project needs (which it will), should it still be considered 'Not a Zandronum project'? - This is what really tips me off more than anything. Thank you for your support, I will remember this one.

Torr Samaho wrote: You do not have to downgrade your project in any way. I never said that. I'm only pointing out that this is not a Zandronum project then.

Then what is needed for it to be a 'confirmed' a Zandronum project?

Torr Samaho wrote: It's very different if you try to make your project compatible with Zandronum or if you hope that Zandronum will eventually support your project.

If the project contains - only maps and little scripts for basic functionality (which is currently the only thing on my mind with the development), there's really no need for 'hoping' that Zandronum will ever support the project when infact - it will in time.

Torr Samaho wrote: but the fact that we are planning this doesn't turn all (G)ZDoom only projects into Zandronum projects.

I targeted GZDoom for several reasons:

• OpenGL; I can finally make Deathmatch 'different' with the help of using mix 3D Objects
• Updated; I no longer have to wait for the changes to be carried over to SkullTag; I can now take advantage of new features that will eventually be carried over to Zandronum.
• Easy to play this project on any engine that uses GZDoom as base -- Hallo, Zandronum!
  • If someone makes the software renderer support 3D Slopped Objects, then - OpenGL is no longer a requirement.

Just because the main topic stated 'users must use GZDoom', it doesn't mean that the project is forever 'locked' in GZDoom. Locking my project to just one port is simply hurting the potential growth. Now, I suck at marketing schemes, but even I see a massive problem with enforcing a project to only run by one engine - only. I am only stating that users need GZDoom as Zandronum does not yet have any of the features that is required (jumping pad issues), but in time - that'll change. The texture pack issue can be easily solved, but due to - recent complaints in this topic, I no longer have any motivation to investigate it.

The idea is more hierarchical, but this outlines where I am going:
revision 194\Supported ZDoom Engines (Hierarchy).docx


Now, to end, as you have clearly stated this project isn't a 'Zandronum project' (even in the future sense), the forum moderators may do as they wish with this entire topic. Thank you for the support, - I have spent years doing careful planning, yet I get this in return.

I am tired of arguing.

You seem to be overreacting a fair bit where the only issue at hand is that the topic is posted in a wrong subforum(probably - I'm not so sure myself about it here, I personally have nothing against zdoom projects in here but mods can disagree with this). The only thing that should be really done is moving the topic to the right place and you're acting like the entire community is rejecting you and your work.

Yeah a bit of an overreacting there. You should really doublecheck what Torr has said... I don't see any humiliating or any comment of the like. He merely stated that in it's CURRENT state it's not a "Zandronum" project (as, quite honestly even you said that it doesn't work with the CURRENT zandronum), and must therefore be moved to a proper forum that isn't for Zandronum projects... Maybe when the time comes it can be moved back to it's proper place. You know what that is? That's like advertising a Zdaemon only project on Zandronum, in the projects section. Think about it when you cool off, it's not too different.

As far as the 3d jumppads not working in Zandronum goes. They do work everytime, just not if the player walks onto the pad. I don't see why this couldn't just be fixed with a simple script that does the same thing that the "actor hits floor" things do.

Edit:

This could also be achieved easier if you just lowered the 3d floor a little bit so the player wouldn't be walking onto it but falling onto it.

Tiger, I think there is a huge misunderstanding between the two of us. It was not my intention to insult you or your project in any way. Actually, the screenshots look intriguing and make me look forward to the final version. Also I know that you are a well known and long time to contributor to both Skulltag and Zandronum and I really appreciate your contributions. I was solely commenting on technical issues and the policies of this subforum. I'll try to clarify what I mean later when I have more time to write.

I don't think you should give up for some misunderstanding. I am totally agree with HexaDoken and Ivan! It seem the moderator think this section of the forum should be for zandronum compatible mod only it seem. I admit I personally don't find any problem of your thread been post here, as long they mention is not compatible with any current zandronum build. Maybe we need another section in the forum for mod that only work with the other port? Move it to general? I bet some people from this community are looking toward for this to be finish, working in zandronum or not.

Ok, let's try to find out why we are apparently not understanding each other. To get started let me first make sure that I did not misinterpret your statements. What you wrote so far to me clearly sounded as if you had no absolutely intention to support Zandronum 1.2.2 or Zandronum 2.0 in its current form with your project. Is this correct or did I misinterpret your statements?