Konar6a is editting my mod to advertise grandvoid, discuss

[Catastrophe]

Konar6A has been hosting Idiotic LMS with a nice patch called ilms_gv.pk3. Seems fishy... what could be inside?

I found out that he ripped an entire acs file out of Idiotic LMS just to advertise his authentication webpage instead of the funcrusher one by default. Proof? Here you go.

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script 180 (void) net clientside
{
log(s:"\cjTo even begin collecting hats, or setting records, you must first log-in.\n
First you must \cdcreate an account at [b]auth.funcrusher.net[/b]\cj (No valid email needed)\n
Once created, type in: '\cdlogin <username> <password>\cj' in the console. Making a \cdbind/alias\cj for this is very helpful.\n
If done correctly, it should say '\cdlogin successful\cj', if so, you are ready to play =)\n");
}

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script 180 (void) net clientside
{
log(s:"\cjTo even begin collecting hats, or setting records, you must first log-in.\n
First you must \cdcreate an account at [b]grandvoid.sickedwick.net/auth[/b]\cj (No valid email needed)\n
Once created, type in: '\cdlogin <username> <password>\cj' in the console. Making a \cdbind/alias\cj for this is very helpful.\n
If done correctly, it should say '\cdlogin successful\cj', if so, you are ready to play =)\n");
}

I'm sure all of you are wondering why I'm making such a big fuss over a simple message - it's mainly because this guy is one of the worst server admins in the history of Zandro and needs to stop doing this shit. An example of his shadiness is how he was supposedly "seduced" by some female-pretender named "Demy Veronica" that ultimately lead to Konar to giving that individual rcon access to All Out War servers where he would regularly abuse rcon by puking unknown scripts, kicking people who didn't agree with his views, etc etc. Of course Konar will deny that ever happened, but there are literally dozens of people all from different backgrounds that say this infact did happen.

...and is just the tip of the iceberg (Imagine the shit I was told by a reputabe ex-Grandvoid administrator that I can't post here).

Of course I am no shining angel either. I used to regularly troll his servers back in 2010 and I admit while it was hilarious, it was bad practice. But do keep in mind that was six years ago; my behavior in that regard has changed and I haven't really done that shit in the past four years.

Anyways, I am not ok with Konar6a editing my mod. He may have gotten away with fucking up All Out War, but not my project. I absolutely do not approve.

[one_Two]

What did Konar say when you confronted him with this that required you to bring it to the forum?

[Frits]

I saw this too and thought konar had asked permission to change the funcrushers auth to gv's auth. I agree he should have asked first but this seems a bit blown up. Why not just pm him to change it back and only start the drama after he refuses your valid request?

Anyway this will likely end in a 3 page long drama thread which is always great reading material. :)

[spoiler]I am also biased towards konar and GV so pls don't attack me :([/spoiler]

[Catastrophe]

This guy regularly pretends to be AFK. I'm not putting up with that.

[Frits]

I'll take the server down for you until konar stops fake AFKing and settles it with you. That ok? :)

[Catastrophe]

I'll take the server down for you until konar stops fake AFKing and settles it with you. That ok? :)

Sure. Hopefully drama actually gets him to do his job.

[Frits]

Done but now i'm off to see star wars. Carry on :D

[Sean]

Your messages in #fnfstaff conflict with your opinion in this thread

Or maybe it's just me, maybe I'm picking up you posting this "just to start shit" and the following quote as you not really caring

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@Catastrophe | [17:43:17] Yeah I really dont care, anyways posted.

[TerminusEst13]

Doesn't look like an edit, looks like just an add-on patch.

Which pretty much puts this entirely in the clear, to me. You don't have to approve what's in an add-on.

[Catastrophe]

Doesn't look like an edit, looks like just an add-on patch.

Which pretty much puts this entirely in the clear, to me. You don't have to approve what's in an add-on.

He has my entire acs file in the add-on. Yes I do.

Your messages in #fnfstaff conflict with your opinion in this thread

Or maybe it's just me, maybe I'm picking up you posting this "just to start shit" and the following quote as you not really caring

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@Catastrophe | [17:43:17] Yeah I really dont care, anyways posted.

Thank you for misinterpreting my message, this was towards argentum when he said
<ArgentAgent> You'll probably get a response way before he ever gives me UK FNF Rcon. :p

[Zakken]

This ultimately falls into the saying "his server, his rules". If he hosts an authentication server of his own (which he does), it would only make sense that he ensures any references to FC's auth server are altered so that they reference his instead (otherwise, the info provided by the original wad would be misleading). It sucks that you can't carry your hats over across servers because of this, but if Konar really wants to use his own auth server over FC's, then so be it. He's entitled to at least that much freedom, and I personally don't see much wrong with it (aside from having to handle two different "save files" for ILMS), but I'm interested in knowing more details on why this particular change is an issue. Technically, he's not straight out altering the ILMS wad, but only adding a patch to it. Why is it a problem that his add-on has the entire ACS data? Wouldn't the mod just stop working if the replaced file only had the changed script in it and nothing else? Excuse my ignorance on how ACS works.

I'll agree that Konar is a really shady admin though. The best thing you can do about it is not to support his servers (and let your friends know why they shouldn't either). I already only use it for Euro priv and nearly nothing else.

[Catastrophe]

I agree it's his servers his rules, but directly editing code from my project without even asking WHILE knowing I don't like him is a dick move.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying he can't host it.

[Tiger]

I just took a look at the 'Idiotic LMS', it seems to be missing the readme or WADINFO. Please consider using this standard text scheme and fill out the contents as needed, such as "Authors may use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse." However, you must be sure that your project's dependencies allows either or of the clause. If one dependency or asset states that it can not be reused - yet having the initial permission todo so, then the clause must be set accordingly.

In contrast, there's no foolproof way of preventing anyone from altering your PWAD directly and indirectly. The ReadMe textfile mentioned above is merely 'kindness' yet a lot of sane level developers respect it, but not foolproof when there exists individuals like Michael Hardy. Moreover, any PWAD can alter your PWAD indirectly - which you have absolutely no control over. If someone wanted to alter your ACS scripts (or whatever variant), all they need is the original scripts entry point and calls (or listeners, depending).

Furthermore, you really shouldn't advertise connecting to a network. This particular PWAD could have a much longer lifespan than the network itself. Sure that network exists right now, but yet it may not in the far distant future when your PWAD is still being played. Thus this comes back to your very point of argument, will it be wrong to redirect users from a dead network to an active network? Its blatantly obvious that we should connect users to an active network.

In my opinion, I am okay if the PWAD's ReadMe and WADINFO stating to connect to some network for statistics and whatnot, but have a indirect way of advertising the network on the display output for users that failed to read the .txt or knowing the conventional standards (if any).

[Dusk]

Your WAD is biased towards funcrusher by use of a hardcoded log message, which IMO is more serious than a simple ACS file copy with a minor edit like this, if we really are going to start splitting hairs about something this trivial.

This thread is pretty dumb and I think you're just starting drama for the sake of starting drama.

[Catastrophe]

@Tiger You're right. I'll add a readme. I know it's borderline impossible to stop people, but cmon Konar should have known better.

@Dusk I don't see the problem in hard-coding a log message that tells people to go to a reliable auth server. It is my mod after all - which I eventually plan on hosting myself.

[Ænima]

Will this even matter once Zan 3.0's login system is widely used?

[Catastrophe]

ITT: asshole calls out another asshole. No readme, no wadinfo? Editing 1 line to reflect a different server name? Get mad, stay mad. To be fair, we have two people here who want to control as many people and things as possible. Nobody truly gives a shit about this edit except you, and Konar would rather see the community die than relinquish any power. Have fun resolving this!

ITT: Asshole critiques other assholes

[Sean]

Will this even matter once Zan 3.0's login system is widely used?

What? Zandronum's had an auth system since 1.3. Do you mean some official, universal Zan auth server? If so, I've heard nothing about anything like that.

[AlexMax]

Anyways, I am not ok with Konar6a editing my mod. He may have gotten away with fucking up All Out War, but not my project. I absolutely do not approve.

Was the intention to force Konar to use my auth servers on his servers?

To be honest, I never really thought it was a good idea for every single major server owner to run their own auth server. The whole reason the auth server was made open source was threefold:

1. To hedge against Zandronum becoming another ZDaemon
2. To allow outside contributions easier.
3. To allow people to run their own local auth servers for testing login-related functionality.

However, as soon as the auth server was in a usable state, instead of pointing to Funcrusher's auth server, suddenly Best Ever and Grandvoid had their own. This is problematic, because the end goal was for there to be one auth server ran on Zandronum.com that everybody uses by default (unless the shit hits the fan), and I have no idea how we're supposed to be able to merge three different sets of logins without just tossing out two of them. Not to mention that tossing out two of the three sets of logins will mean that database information that relies on the tossed-out logins might be incorrect or inconsistent unless somebody goes in and fixes the databases by hand (which is possible, just probably time consuming).

Why not stick with multiple login servers? Signing up for multiple sites is annoying and sometimes not even intuitive if you're a newer player. Plus, the more sites you sign up for, the greater the chance is that somebody will put up a phishing signup page, preying on people who use the same password for their account in multiple places.

[Ænima]

Will this even matter once Zan 3.0's login system is widely used?

What? Zandronum's had an auth system since 1.3. Do you mean some official, universal Zan auth server?

That's what I was thinking of, yeah.

Edit:
@Cata:
Yeah copying+pasting all of your ACS does seem pretty shady but honestly if it's helping to get your mod played even more then why u mad? It's like playing the same game with a different memory card. Fuck the politics of servers and hosts, just give players what they want and they will respect you.