Doom Esports?

[Ænima]

And trying to carefully craft the Doom experience to be more like CS or COD for the sole purpose of MLG-compatibility is moot, nobody's gonna pay for/torrent Doom just to play CounterZandronum when they can just play Counterstrike competitively because lol better graphics and gun skins

That's why you don't make Counter-Strike in Doom, you examine its systems, how they work, and apply them to a new game with alternate executions and perhaps different gameplay in other places.

There are ways to take inspiration from other games without just ripping them wholesale.

I was not implying a simple copy or emulation of Counterstrike. I read your earlier post about using the elements of CS gameplay as inspiration for a competitive multiplayer mod and I understood it completely.

But I still don't feel like that's going to create an experience which will hook a large gathering of players into the competition, at least not enough to make it worth watching from the outside, which is what e-sports are right?

what i think we need to do is examine all the weapons including the skulltag ones that it adds and by in large the power ups and see what could be added and what could be removed also too maps are a big part not just the weapons. if you have excellent weapons but a shitty map is the game interesting to watch the short answer is no the long answer is there is not enough places to have action choke points. we can take a look at the dwango wads as the best example of popular maps for dm back in the day and with new stuff in the engine it's self how can we improve upon it to make it more appealing to the view/commentator. if we make it to complex then how can any one follow the action where as if we make it to simple then it's no fun to watch and potentially play.

so i think DM/TDM on any dwango wads is viable but now we talk about the weapons i think there should be a max of 15 if we are to add more but sticking with the skulltag set is also a good option as well.

You seem pretty hung up on the idea of "more weapons, more fun". In all honestly we'd probably only need to add 3 or 4, or use the Skulltag ones. See IGPACK or Sabbyt Martyr .

[Gordon228]

doom already has a total of 9 weapons with the skulltag weapons that brings it up to 11 what i was saying is if we need to add more weapons 15 is a good max so we do not go overboard also when adding new weapons we need to factor in the doom feel like for instance would a flame thrower be a good fit to doom? i say no. why as for one how would you do it so it look appealing and have it function properly yet stay true to doom the answer you can't. and i am fine with just having the skulltag weapons added in. i will compile a list of all the power ups skulltag has to offer so we have a base and i do know that we need to make maps to support this or make a script that randomly changes the weapons witch i think will give it more variety. we can also have it done with the power ups as well.

[ibm5155]

So you want to create a new mod for e-sports and not to use the mods that are already developed? then, good luck.

[TerminusEst13]

when adding new weapons we need to factor in the doom feel like for instance would a flame thrower be a good fit to doom? i say no. why as for one how would you do it so it look appealing and have it function properly yet stay true to doom the answer you can't.

A flamethrower was designed for Doom 64.

i do know that we need to make maps to support this or make a script that randomly changes the weapons witch i think will give it more variety. we can also have it done with the power ups as well.

Having scripts that randomize placement of items and powerup would completely ruin the point of timing powerups, as well as the reasoning that mappers use behind putting powerups in specific areas.

[Gordon228]

i think with the skulltag stuff we got what we need as it has so much stuff we need not add any more to it.


Edit: i agree as i just played some skulltag lvls and having placed stuff is better for it.

Edit 2: i just reilized that skulltag added 4 weapons so we have 13 weapons total the only thing i can't figure out is how many powerups there are.

[Arctangent]

And trying to carefully craft the Doom experience to be more like CS or COD for the sole purpose of MLG-compatibility is moot, nobody's gonna pay for/torrent Doom just to play CounterZandronum when they can just play Counterstrike competitively because lol better graphics and gun skins

That's why you don't make Counter-Strike in Doom, you examine its systems, how they work, and apply them to a new game with alternate executions and perhaps different gameplay in other places.

There are ways to take inspiration from other games without just ripping them wholesale.

I was not implying a simple copy or emulation of Counterstrike. I read your earlier post about using the elements of CS gameplay as inspiration for a competitive multiplayer mod and I understood it completely.

But I still don't feel like that's going to create an experience which will hook a large gathering of players into the competition, at least not enough to make it worth watching from the outside, which is what e-sports are right?

Well, I mean, you're basing this on a single system and, I'm assuming, your presumption of how the rest of the gameplay will be. As limited as the idTech 1 engine may be, there's still a lot of room for how a game made in it can develop and unfold, and what appeal it can bring.

Besides, a project based on this endeavor will ultimately have going big as a dream goal, not a primary one. The primary one would just be a project that examines what makes e-sports games e-sports games and try to make something with its own unique appeal while using traits from what's known to work. It'd be the exact same as making a game that has the potential to go big, but would be fine if it was had a decent multiplayer life time.

[Gordon228]

true and also i had a look at all the ctf maps that come with the skulltag stuff and besides the music for the lvls they look basic but good and i can see a 10v10 or a 20v20 ctf on them some are smaller but thats nothing. what i think we should focus on is maps and follow with the maps skulltag has and add more to them. also too i think we need to have a theme for the maps and not just what looks good.

[Razgriz]

Eonweapons gg that's all the balancing you need no need for COD BRUTAL DOOM Complexed doom arsenal.

[Gordon228]

@Razgriz if we stick to the skulltag weapon set were fine.

Edit: found something out and that is doom was the first e-sports game. it also made the rule that you must use standardized hardware so that everyone has the same playing field.

[Gordon228]

sorry for the double posting but here is my thoughts on the stuff that can be on offer with zandronum as an e-sports with skulltag stuff. we have 1on1 dules, 4 man FFADM, 5v5 TDM, and 10v10 CTF/Skulltag this is my thoughts i would like to here yours.

Edit: since zandronum dropped green and gold (big mistake) LMS/TLMS is not viable well LMS is but i do not know for e-spots but TLMS would have been with 4 teams with 5 players each unless there is good lvl design i just don't see how 2 team LMS would work.

[Marcaek]

Zandronum did not drop green and gold teams where are you getting this from

[Gordon228]

i may have been mistaken but how dose one switch to thos teams i just tried and no luck green and gold default to blue.

[TerminusEst13]

You may want to increase sv_maxteams from 2 to 4.

[Gordon228]

Will test when I get home.

edit: yes they are there i am not thinking strait since i have only ever seen red and blue.

[Devastator]

Doom 4 would be the likely candidate...

[ZZYZX]

how possible would it be to make Doom into an Esports game?

As for DM/Duel game modes, hardly possible. The key point of Doom deathmatch is that it's random. The skill still decides, but not as much as in, say, Quake.

Team gamemodes, maybe. There the overall game skill (and especially teamwork experience) matters way more. But first you'd need to make people actually believe that this your 20 years old game is still good to play.

[Lollipop]

Relevant video in case your care:

phpBB [video]

The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag