Is doom slowly dying?

[Ænima]

Complex Doom is the cancer that's killing Zandronum.

Yes, vanilla Doom is/was doing so well its own.

Vanilla is doing the same as it was before Complex. I'm sorry, Daedjesus, you may have followers but you're not the Doom messiah.

They gave some very nice, constructive criticism in their posts, thank you both for the useful information on what I should change/do to make things better.

Maybe if you made a thread for it since you seem to like to use the forums now.

[Daedalus]

Vanilla is doing the same as it was before Complex.

Thank you. And I wasn't referring to just Complex, but as usual, you like to throw words in peoples mouths.

Maybe if you made a thread for it since you seem to like to use the forums now.

Damn, you desperately want that thread huh, been what? three years now? Unnecessary.

Why are you keep editing that post?

v EDIT: He reworded it a bunch for some dumb reason.

[Konda]

Why are you keep editing that post?

I don't know if that question was implying something but I usually do it to correct typos or change the phrasing of my post to make it better, without changing the point of what I said, of course.

[Lord Smash]

Why do you keep editing that post?

I have no clue what you're talking about, comrade. There is no editing of opinions here. Ho ho.

[Ænima]

Vanilla is doing the same as it was before Complex.

Thank you. And I wasn't referring to just Complex, but as usual, you like to throw words in peoples mouths.

So why even bring vanilla up if you're not trying to draw some sort of comparison?

Vanilla will continue to be vanilla (and obviously far less played) and modded Doom will obviously dominate most of the playebase. Because that's what they come here to Zandro for. If they're not playing complex, they're playing another mod.

Maybe if you made a thread for it since you seem to like to use the forums now.

Damn, you desperately want that thread huh, been what? three years now? Unnecessary.

I don't really care if you make one or not, but you would think the most popular survival mod on Zandronum would have its own thread where people can give feedback in a way that others can see and contribute to instead of relying on PM's or in-server chatter to partake in its developmemt. Some people might even have things to contribute. You can keep all the information in one place that doesn't require opening DoomSeeker and downloading the latest version of the mod just to see what's changed. Plus having a page is just extra attention from people who browsing the web. You literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain, unless you're just afraid of having criticism somewhere where everyone can see it and not just in your server logs.

Why are you keep editing that post?

v EDIT: He reworded it a bunch for some dumb reason.

You caught me red-handed, I made a few quick edits in a row, the first was grammar and then I thought of that snarky Jesus comment at the last second and threw it in. I didn't retract or remove any of my original message.


Also, much?

[Kara Kurt]

Wrong. Even for exclusive tournaments Odamex is dead. Zandronum has more at this point. (Even though most of them don't finish)

Lol.

Well you can say what you want or hate Oda as much as you please, you can't deny the fact that Odamex runs actual tournaments successfully, and I'm not even playing it; I don't like Oda. Just trying to be neutral.

Complex Doom is the cancer that's killing Zandronum.

Lmao. Go away.

[Cruduxy]

I don't know if people know this but you can "view" a wad directly on bestever to see its content. If a wad contains a changelog lump you can read it directly in bestever!

[ibm5155]

I don't care for tournaments, so odamex is dead for me (I only saw only one day over doomseker a single server with some player runnin oda)

[Ænima]

I don't know if people know this but you can "view" a wad directly on bestever to see its content. If a wad contains a changelog lump you can read it directly in bestever!

Awesome. Can I see screenshots of the mod there too and maybe post some feedback or report a bug or suggest or some sprites that I think would make a good alternative to the current shotgun sprites?

Also not sure why you'd waste time looking at an improperly-formatted dump of a pk3's contents on a web page when you can download the mod with the exact same link and open it up with SLADE or even winzip.

[Cruduxy]

You can read it without even downloading the whole wad?

You know what, what stops YOU from making that topic for discussing the wad instead of waiting for the author to "officially" allow discussing it. you don't need to make a topic in the projects forum to do that. That didn't stop people before from making threads to bash brutal doom before. You can even PM the author both here and on irc.. not to mention ingame.

Also not properly formatted? It is way more than readable enough

[Torvald]

I know it sucks to see very populated servers of mods you don't like while no one plays what you want to play, but let's not get desperate here. No mod is doing any harm to anything. Even if these mods don't pass the test of your own standards for balance, map quality, graphics, etc, you can't objectively say these mods are bad, not fun, suck, etc. because if that judgement was truly objective, no one would really play them. And no, it doesn't help if people on the forums support your opinion. It's still subjective. I'd rather focus on populating the servers I like in your place, if you even have such a problem.

I never fully understood the persistent hatred for mods in doom, but this seems appropriately fitting in retrospect. I ran into the same dilemma back in the era of GVH:NS. I would often encounter a small group of players insistent on removing it under the similar pretense of being "cancer for the community"; I have even offered and hosted older versions (such as gvh.v.3B2") repeatedly in an attempt at catering to all parties - with little results. It seemed those in disgust were far more content on bringing down the work of others in favor of trying to populate servers they like, much as you suggest.


If the main argument for ruining the community is because of its massive player activity, then chances are it isn't the mod that's causing cancer.

[Catastrophe]

[quote=aenima]I don't really care if you make one or not, but you would think the most popular survival mod on Zandronum would have its own thread where people can give feedback in a way that others can see and contribute to instead of relying on PM's or in-server chatter to partake in its developmemt. Some people might even have things to contribute. You can keep all the information in one place that doesn't require opening DoomSeeker and downloading the latest version of the mod just to see what's changed. Plus having a page is just extra attention from people who browsing the web. You literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain, unless you're just afraid of having criticism somewhere where everyone can see it and not just in your server logs.[/quote]

It's almost like you want him to make a thread just to shit it on it. Yeah, I don't think he's ever gonna make a thread now lol.

[quote=torvald]
I ran into the same dilemma back in the era of GVH:NS. I would often encounter a small group of players insistent on removing it under the similar pretense of being "cancer for the community"; I have even offered and hosted older versions (such as gvh.v.3B2") repeatedly in an attempt at catering to all parties - with little results. It seemed those in disgust were far more content on bringing down the work of others in favor of trying to populate servers they like, much as you suggest.
[/quote]

Well no, the problem with NS was that whenever users would give critique about NS basically nothing would get done. And if you asked a bit too much you'd basically be banned on the server. It was a great nazi regime.

[Echo]

you can't objectively say these mods are bad, not fun, suck, etc. because if that judgement was truly objective, no one would really play them.

Superman 64 is objectively shit yet people still play it. Some people just like playing utter shit for novelty value, and others join in because it's the only thing being played.

[Zanieon]

It's strange how a mod is hated because is the most played on the server, if you stop the think even back on Skulltag era you can noticed that the servers and playerbase have ages.

I remember when Armageddon 2 was the most played, everytime you browse the server list, there was 20 servers hosting it with at least 10 players, then came GvH and AoW2, both replaced the Invasion servers, later, Master Of Puppets arrived, some years ago, i almost ragequitted from multiplayer because 18 of 20 servers was hosting Brutal Doom, after it we had Zombie Horde, well now happens the same with Complex Doom and it will not delay much to another mod replace Complex Doom because it is more nice for that players.

The point is, if your mod becomes famous and gets attention from casual players that is most part of the playerbase, it will always have a hater group which is composed mostly by other modders.

[Torvald]

whenever users would give critique about NS basically nothing would get done.

Effort was repeatedly made each day to please the player base and improve upon the game. I have no idea where you got the ridiculous idea that we didn't do anything, but I'm glad we put that to rest.

if you asked a bit too much you'd basically be banned on the server. It was a great nazi regime.

Never once did we ban somebody for criticizing the mod, in fact we encouraged it to help accelerate the process of giving our players what they wanted. Only a total of 3 people were banned in my recollection, 2 of which were confirmed for wallhacking and aimbotting in GvH. The 3rd was cited for repeatedly disturbing the peace - verbally abusing players in the server, instigating fights and occasionally "griefing"; all of which was done in a passive-aggressive manner very similar to your own.

I urge you to refrain from spewing forth blatant disinformation that has been evidently proven false. You can easily garner a bad reputation by doing that.

[Catastrophe]

whenever users would give critique about NS basically nothing would get done.

Effort was repeatedly made each day to please the player base and improve upon the game. I have no idea where you got the ridiculous idea that we didn't do anything, but I'm glad we put that to rest.

if you asked a bit too much you'd basically be banned on the server. It was a great nazi regime.

Never once did we ban somebody for criticizing the mod, in fact we encouraged it to help accelerate the process of giving our players what they wanted. Only a total of 3 people were banned in my recollection, 2 of which were confirmed for wallhacking and aimbotting in GvH. The 3rd was cited for repeatedly disturbing the peace - verbally abusing players in the server, instigating fights and occasionally "griefing"; all of which was done in a passive-aggressive manner very similar to your own.

I urge you to refrain from spewing forth blatant disinformation that has been evidently proven false. You can easily garner a bad reputation by doing that.

You guys were told many times by many people that ranged ghouls and melee humans broke the flow of the game. And people even suggested ways to fix it, but what did you guys do? Shrug it off and add cringy meme-achievements instead of actually fixing the core issues. Thank god you guys didn't have your way with Zdoomwars.

A good amount of people were shrugged away or downright banned for complaining too much. Yes, I know that happens because I talk to one of the three people who made NS every day.

That is something mod authors should never do.

Edit: Hell, how long did it take you guys to remove the stupid light effects from the warlocks meteor, months?

[Torvald]

I don't know whether you're conscious to the idea or not, but you're actually agreeing with my original statement: Some people didn't like the mod (which, the whole intention behind it was to change the dynamics), and while I offered them the original version with none of the changes made, people stuck with GVH:NS. So once again, your argument is invalid. Citing a player (Ivan) and not naming him is a terrible way to try and convey an argument. It holds no ground what so ever. Nor does "talking to them every day" qualify as justifiable. I talk to Jenova every day and he says Jews are bad - so by your level of standards, it must be true.

Please don't use your inferiority complex against me as a means to justify anything you say. Most of your post comes off as emotionally subjective, indirectly hinting at past events that have your name all over it. If you didn't like it, that's totally fine I get that, but don't try to make it sound like everyone-else hated it because you did. That puts you right on par with people like this.

[Slim]

Complex Doom is the cancer that's killing Zandronum.

A weapon/monster replacement mod hardly has the potential to kill a game, it's more about the players who play it themselves. Some people new to Doom hardly acknowledge it's history, and treat it like every other Generi-Battle-Duty FPS they play. Bottom line: It's the players, not the mod.

[Espio]

Ivan was right though on the first page, these kinds of threads aren't really necessary. When it dies, if it does, I'm sure the majority will move on, as with other games from lack of people, modders, or mappers.

Not alot one or a few people could do bout it. It's normal.

[Ivan]

Ivan was right though on the first page, these kinds of threads aren't really necessary. When it dies, if it does, I'm sure the majority will move on, as with other games from lack of people, modders, or mappers.

Not alot one or a few people could do bout it. It's normal.

Yeah and you guys wanted discussions to go on. See, I knew this would happen. This is the kind of thread that's too dangerous to let around given the nature of the people here.