Zombie HORDE - The mappack project! (11 / r27) 14/12/2015

[Klofkac]

I thingk it could be a good a idea to make some sectors be secret (that need to be opened with switches or someting like that ). And only that secrets sectors can have some op camp spot.
It's just an idea.

NO! That has been way too overused overall.
And, No OP spots at all! These only break gameplay. And it would lead into: map start -> secret hunt -> get op spot -> win
Badlands, anyone?

[Untitled]

Depends on the definition of "OP"
Some camp spots *are* blatantly OP, but sometimes some people just rage at the camp thing before it settles it's not as OP as people make it seem.

Not necessarily OP camp spots, but SOME good camp spots would be nice, as the whole game revolves around camping in ZM mode, and seriously, Humans should be able to win some good fraction of the time, which is only possible with good camp spots. Not stupidly OP campspots, but ones that *can* easily be defended.

Though that badlands one should be nice to see go.

EDIT: Has anyone seen humans win Abandoned UAC Facility? Ever? There's no good places to shoot zombies off of, there's no way to prevent zombies from running forward and chasing down humans, and the last resist is basically impossible to defend. Someone should make that map more human friendly.

[Klofkac]

Humans should be able to win some good fraction of the time.

Server-side statistics show that majority of ZM rounds are won by humans, actually.

[Untitled]

Good chunk of those were "Gang up and kill start Zombie", though. That's odd though, Normally I see zombies win, though that might be me only joining if there's 17+ players on.

EDIT: For those wondering why that would help the start zombie, at 17+ players two start zombies are selected instead of one.

Yeah, on further analysis Abandoned UAC Facility is basically a giveaway to the zombies. I've never seen humans win short of Start Zombie Lockdown.

[P_player]

EDIT: Has anyone seen humans win Abandoned UAC Facility? Ever? There's no good places to shoot zombies off of, there's no way to prevent zombies from running forward and chasing down humans, and the last resist is basically impossible to defend. Someone should make that map more human friendly.

Map ze18 (TGK) isn't complate but this isnt the only map.
Two start zombies cause many ze maps be almost impossible if the map hasn't big place/good camp (like ze01,02 ,unlike ze18, ze30) or have long resists (2nd in ze17)
(maybe its better to do one zombie with double HP insted of Two?)

And all camps should have two ways to get so they will be fair.
All camps will be hard to get if there are many humans there.

[Guardsoul]

Warning: Looks like I forgot to add the "teamdamage 1.0" to the mapinfo lump so if you have tried to play an offline match you wont be able to hurt zimbas or infect humans.

[Untitled]

For what it's worth, ZE30 has the same problem. Has anyone seen humans win ZE30 (short of start zombie lockdown)? The win rate on that map seems to be about as good as ZE18 (I.E. Humans lose every time).

[Kaminsky]

Many times, I've seen humans win on ZE30, not by killing the initial zombie at the beginning of the round, but actually reaching the bunker, while defending it against incoming zombies. Personally, humans are more capable of succeeding at Zombie Escape maps by cooperating, rather than activating barricades that were meant to block the zombies, or not concentrate on the task at hand.

[Untitled]

I haven't seen humans actually reach the bunker yet. The first and second resists have no convenient places to stop the zombies from approaching, and zombies get free reign if they even play half-intelligently (don't waste time on the one or two humans behind, chase into crowds for mass infects, so on and so forth.)

The elevator near the beginning is too small, multiple times I've seen it get stuck, meaning easy zombie food. It's the biggest gripe with the map I have.

I'd make it so the forcefields in the map is a "bounce zombies away, let humans through" forcefields. This way, humans who get stuck outside due to players pressing the forcefield before they're through can still get through, and we can shoot zombies back through the forcefield if one by some chance got through before the forcefield was activated. Think ZE19's forcefield near the very beginning, or the forcefield in ZE16.

As I said, I only tend to play Zombie Horde at 17+ players, so it may be a bit of bias.

EDIT: For comparison, ZE18 is another "hey look zombies get free reign over humans" map. No convenient places to shoot zombies off of, Impossible to defend resists, so on and so forth.

I don't think I've seen humans win ZE13 or ZE20 yet either. ZE06 and ZE15's final resists have this problem too. No convenient places to delay the zombie approach, and in case of the ZE13/ZE20, zombies can literally get into the final resist before humans do and suddenly impossible...
ZE13 is offset by the fact that you can shoot the chandeliers to burn zombies, though a tip saying this at the beginning would be helpful, considering like 95% of players don't utilize it (the burn radius on those things is huge).

ZE02 is how you do it right, design wise. Each resist that lasts more than 10 seconds should have ample opportunity to stop the zombie approach, even if the zombies are smart and don't go after a human at the beginning (and giving time for the other humans to go ahead).

EDIT #2: I've /been/ start zombie on ZE30. I found it exceptionally easy. So first I started charging at the first resist, getting the one or two stragglers when the gate is brought up. Then the gates go down before the actual resist ends, letting me get a free reign of 2 or so more infections. Then I charge to the second resist before humans get there, infecting those who run into me, so the forcefield becomes useless since I'm ahead of it, while my zombies get a few more infects, so we're at like 10 zombies, and about 15 or so humans. Then final resist, where I get to the resist before humans do, then wait for the humans and get like 5 more infections and suddenly zombie horde gg.

My point is that as long as I don't get caught up trying to chase humans that are far behind the crowd, I get free reign over the map. Just like ZE18.

[Mr.Man]

ok, here it is.
http://static.[bad site]/wads/zm12v2.0.wad

-added some houses as said.
-NO WAY to suicide whatsoever.

to fix (but really unnessecary to use anyway):
Z-TELE.

does anybody know why it doesnt work? its the only thing not working.

[Stiff]

Well...

The maps ze30, ze15, the map wich begins on train rails I tought ze06, ze18, ze20 and ze13 are in my opinion harder for humans becouse there is no way to defend the resist places.

BUT ... Ze02 is too OP for humans becouse zombie mostly already dies in water

[Untitled]

Not usually, I've found. Zombies usually make it to the shore, and then either the zombie goes up and the map gets interesting or one human distracts him and suddenly he gets picked out by snipers while chasing a single human

ZE01, on the other hand, is a common "Lock Down the Start Zombie", because of the damn first resist.

ZE02 is by no means perfect; All I wanted to take was the design of being able to shoot the zombies away at each resist. That's how to do it right.
Having utterly overpowered "Oh hey zombies can't possibly progress through here" is what we should avoid.
Having utterly overpowered "Oh hey zombies get free reign of map there is no way to avoid them" is something we also have to avoid.

[Kaminsky]

I still think that it would be rather difficult to create a map that is perfect by means of both sides benefiting over its environment. For instance, areas that can easily counter the zombies' progression is often defended by humans for the entire round, as people are more interested into killing the remaining zombies than reaching the end of the map. Then again, areas that are not like this can be easily overrun by the zombies as well.

A solution for this imbalance is to create spots that are essentially protective for the humans to take position. However, upon gaining entry to further locations in the map, there should be an "unknown" force that forces the players to keep moving. Maps such as ZE06 follow this concept, by unleashing a neurotoxin.

[Mr.Man]

something i forgot to say is that the church bell goes off after 3 minutes (i didnt even add the bell but i might do later, along with some more things i had in mind).

But for now, this is the fixed beta version.

[Untitled]

ZE06 works well until the Zombies run inside elevator and suddenly humans have no where to go except into zombie filled areas, especially if zombies play smart and split up to occupy every elevator.

The problem is the /Final/ resist has to be easier to defend. Otherwise zombies enter final and suddenly humans are trapped in a "Safe" zone with a bunch of zombies. ZE06, ZE12, ZE15, ZE20, and even ZE16 to a much lesser extent (guys, shoot zombies off bridge) cannot be won by humans if zombies just run forward.
The other problem is that if zombies get ahead of the humans and whatnot (ZE13 and ZE20), there's really no way to defend against them, as they get free roam of the map and hunt down humans who have no where to go when final resist activates.

I'd say the best is have every resist easy to defend a la ZE02 or ZE03, and have alternate routes open up as humans progress so zombies can get around the humans that stick around, like the new ZE11 does with it's first and second resists.

Of course, that still doesn't excuse ZE18 and ZE30. As I said, I've been start zombie on ZE30; look above in my post to see what happened.

[Mr.Man]

Anybody knows how to turn UDMF to hexen format. Wiki doesnt seem to have an awnser. I think hexen will be alot less of a size with my map.

[Zeberpal]

You'll have to manually drag sectors, items from UDMF map window to DiH map window. Well it's the best way. You should also keep in mind that DiH does not contain some of those features in udmf.

[fr blood]

Ok, here is the new update for ZE17 :
- Number of sectors before the update -> 2700.
- Number of sectors after the update -> 3244.

And what is new now :
- Added more details.
- Added a Double Shotgun that has 33% of chance to spawn.
- Reduced the time for the 2nd resist ( 40 secs -> 30 secs ).
- At the 2nd resist humans can more easily move zombies from the deck.
- The Jacksgun is more harder to get.
- Stuck place fixed.

[Mr.Man]

You'll have to manually drag sectors, items from UDMF map window to DiH map window. Well it's the best way. You should also keep in mind that DiH does not contain some of those features in udmf.

Does that mean every single thing i have in there or are there udmf lumps that i dont need?

[Lollipop]

It means open two doom builder windows and then copy the sectors, paste that in, then copy the things and paste those in.
If you can't copy-paste from one window to the other, then save it as prefabs.

It can't be adressed too much that some functions might turn out as something else when you paste it in, as the function numbers might be different.