Samsara - No longer under active development.

[dekw]

@Catastrophe: Slow to raise, slow to lower was part of the SPNKR's original limitation.

@Untitled: I think the point of the SO buffs in DM is not to make him stronger overall per se, but to allow people to make use of weapons other than the TOZT, WSTE-M5s and the occasional KKV.

DONTRIP is a bit frustrating, but it seems to balance out (even though napalm stopping cold on hellknights makes me cringe, I guess you can see them more parallel in role to a hunter class).

SO also has a REALLY GOOD anti-boss slot 5, in case you didn't notice. While the KKV was a great boss weapon (oh, YTYBT...), a lot of that came from the fact that everything essentially had a full painchance in marathon -- even a grey hunter could be slowed to half-frozen by a bunch of unloaded KKV clips. In most situations, you'd find yourself using the SPNKR anyways, as its knockback served to stun as well. The only reason you wanted to use the KKV in that particular map is because explosive kills robbed you of the chips that got you a lot of ammo for the next (final) level.

WMC is funny, because you fire it and then you duck the fuck out. It is a little frustrating to get sniped by your own class 7, though. I dunno about the cluster grenades on that -- they seem functional enough, but I rarely use them because it's hard to get all the little missiles to hit a good spread... and they keep killing me. Little missiles everywhere make any mid-short range hits nigh-suicidal. I am thinking, though, that you're making a mistake in holding its efficiency standards to the SPNKR -- once again, it's generally more fun if it doesn't obsolete it entirely (although it would be somewhat justified compared to usual, given slot 7 and all that).

[President People]

@Catastrophe: Slow to raise, slow to lower was part of the SPNKR's original limitation.

Indeed, but it was only slow to raise if you wanted to use the weapon (in the Spnkr's case). In Marathon, you could cycle to another weapon at any point during the raise animation, and it would immediately lower from that point and begin raising the next weapon once it was offscreen.

The way DooM handles it, even trying to switch past Slot V can be dangerous.

SO also has a REALLY GOOD anti-boss slot 5, in case you didn't notice. While the KKV was a great boss weapon (oh, YTYBT...), a lot of that came from the fact that everything essentially had a full painchance in marathon -- even a grey hunter could be slowed to half-frozen by a bunch of unloaded KKV clips. In most situations, you'd find yourself using the SPNKR anyways, as its knockback served to stun as well. The only reason you wanted to use the KKV in that particular map is because explosive kills robbed you of the chips that got you a lot of ammo for the next (final) level.

Quite true. I made this point in IRC awhile ago, but I don't think I explained it very well.

[Ijon Tichy]

@Catastrophe: Slow to raise, slow to lower was part of the SPNKR's original limitation.

Indeed, but it was only slow to raise if you wanted to use the weapon (in the Spnkr's case). In Marathon, you could cycle to another weapon at any point during the raise animation, and it would immediately lower from that point and begin raising the next weapon once it was offscreen.

The way DooM handles it, even trying to switch past Slot V can be dangerous.

Actually, there's not a single A_Raise call in the SPNKR's Select state. It calls A_WeaponReady(5) to allow you to swap it out when it's raising (at least in trunk)... which then puts it to the top of the screen which is brilliance.

Normal ZDoom behaviour with A_Raise and A_Lower is not to blame here.

[President People]

Actually, there's not a single A_Raise call in the SPNKR's Select state. It calls A_WeaponReady(5) to allow you to swap it out when it's raising (at least in trunk)... which then puts it to the top of the screen which is brilliance.

Normal ZDoom behaviour with A_Raise and A_Lower is not to blame here.

Oh, yeah. I forgot already. :|

But still.

Would it be possible to have a complicated (as if weren't enough already) state system to replicate Marathon's behavior?

Have the raise animation split into "levels", and likewise with the lower animation. As the weapon is raised, it jumps to the next level, all the while checking for the player's command to lower the weapon. If the player indeed wishes to lower the weapon, then it will start the animation from the corresponding level (instead of assuming it was fully raised, as it does now). And while it's doing that, have it check for the command to raise it again. Yeah, Marathon could juggle a weapon between raising and lowering.

Feasibility aside, can this even be done?

I also forgot to mention a few things.

If any of a weapon's triggers are empty, they will automatically reload if a clip becomes available (this can even be done immediately after raising; if no reload animation is defined (Spnkr, Tozt, Fusion) it will simply fill the clip while it's raising). If no clips are, and all triggers are completely out of ammo, it switches to another weapon, and can't be brought back up until a clip is found.

Dual-wielding is slightly different. When a single gun is out of ammo, it lowers, and the other remains until that runs out as well. Then it is treated as I said above. The player may continue to fire and reload the remaining one (assuming he has ammo for it) without raising the other, unless he wants to.

If a weapon only has one trigger, both primary and secondary triggers will fire the weapon (this can be frustrating while dual-wielding on low ammo. If one lowers, and you press it's respective key to raise it again under the incorrect asumption you had replenished ammo, it would fire the other gun, wasting your last bullet, and lowers the weapon until you find some).

By the way, all types of ammunition are treated as clips (which means everything must reload), including shotgun shells. Even the fists have clips, just an invisible infinite supply (the "reload" animation is the same as its idle sequence, so it's defined, technically).

[TerminusEst13]

I personally think the only thing that needs to be changed on Security Officer is making the weapon switching faster on his slot 5. The slow reload is completely fine.

@Catastrophe: Slow to raise, slow to lower was part of the SPNKR's original limitation.

Indeed, but it was only slow to raise if you wanted to use the weapon (in the Spnkr's case). In Marathon, you could cycle to another weapon at any point during the raise animation, and it would immediately lower from that point and begin raising the next weapon once it was offscreen.
[...]
Would it be possible to have a complicated (as if weren't enough already) state system to replicate Marathon's behavior? Have the raise animation split into "levels", and likewise with the lower animation. As the weapon is raised, it jumps to the next level, all the while checking for the player's command to lower the weapon.

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[Zakken]

Nice work. :D Get hype!

[Cfg]

Good job TerminusEst13! I like it, good luck!

[Ijon Tichy]

So I actually do something for a change.

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I'm so srs aren't I

[Cruduxy]

Best part is the related videos lol

[dekw]

Untitled would like to know if we can post feedback again in the extremely impactful space left by the recent complete and profound breakthrough in the development of samsara by the greatest of codewizards.

But he doesn't want to ask and break the silence brought about by such a great accomplishment.

So I did it for him.

[Aqua Kitty]

So I actually do something for a change.

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I'm so srs aren't I

Ammo pack explosion? Lolwut.

[TerminusEst13]

Untitled would like to know if we can post feedback again in the extremely impactful space left by the recent complete and profound breakthrough in the development of samsara by the greatest of codewizards.

But he doesn't want to ask and break the silence brought about by such a great accomplishment.

So I did it for him.

Sure. There's no real need to ask permission to post feedback. That's why this topic is here, after all, heh.



For those keeping track, you may have noticed we've been kind of mum about stuff.
Strife compatibility has been kicking our ass, and I've been working on a special surprise, but we're finally nearing completion and are very eager to get this out the door.

What these screenshots reveal will be old hat to those that don't hang in our channel, buuuuuuut it's still going to be interesting anyway.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[Untitled]

Ah, good. Ijon is so srs right now, as proven there.
So anyway, Me and Dekw noticed something with Corvus, so yeah
-CORVUS: I think the firemace and ethereal crossbow should swap weapon position for the following reasons:
-In heretic, it filled the shotgun role. With the center projectile it was somewhat accurate, while the firemace just plain isn't, much like the Shotgun/SSG.
-I noticed you bumped the damage for firemace bouncing spheres down and the Ethereal crossbow damage up. If the two swapped, then you could restore them to original damage values.
-Tomed firemace. That is all. (though now it uses 5 Shells per shot, so it's not as bad, but still)
-The placement of the Crossbow in Heretic seemed more like a shotgun (getting it on the first level and all...) while the firemace was placed like a (completely underwhelming,but still) BFG.
-Speaking of which, when playing Heretic, you realized by making the Slot 7 replace Mace Spawner, Anytime there is a firemace, the slot 7 pickup replaces the firemace for all of the spots when the firemace could appear, and In heretic only be spawned once. Sorry if there is no way of replicating this, I'm just asking.
-Tomed Hellstaff needs to do reduced damage VS. Bosses because lol I can 2 shot Cyberdemons in low ceiling areas.
-As mentioned above, +DONTRIP sorta makes the the tomed dragon claw sad, since I can't kill maulotaurs via mass stun locking ripper anymorem and in Doom, why did you add it to basically everything more powerful than cacodemons?
-I think that for all ripping projectiles as of right now, give then +NOBOSSRIP so we can't rip custom bosses in this fashion.

[dekw]

-As mentioned above, +DONTRIP sorta makes the the tomed dragon claw sad, since I can't kill maulotaurs via mass stun locking ripper anymorem and in Doom, why did you add it to basically everything more powerful than cacodemons?
-I think that for all ripping projectiles as of right now, give then +NOBOSSRIP so we can't rip custom bosses in this fashion.

But the Maulotar is a boss...

EDIT: Ohh untitled, I feel like I'm on candid quote here, every time I offhand mention something about the mod you keep posting it xD

[TerminusEst13]

-CORVUS: I think the firemace and ethereal crossbow should swap weapon position for the following reasons: [...] If the two swapped, then you could restore them to original damage values.

This is actually a very good reason against swapping them. The damage was tweaked not due to them being swapped, but due to how terrible the Firemace is in DM--the Ethereal crossbow is Corvus' main weapon in DM and is definite pick of the two in reliability, much like the Shotgun compared to the SSG. I would really rather not have alternate loadouts depending on the mode, so since this is a DM-focused mod the crossbow gets the SSG spot.

-Tomed Hellstaff needs to do reduced damage VS. Bosses because lol I can 2 shot Cyberdemons in low ceiling areas.

Fixed, thank you.

-I think that for all ripping projectiles as of right now, give then +NOBOSSRIP so we can't rip custom bosses in this fashion.

I didn't know this flag existed. I'll slap it on later, thank you.

-Speaking of which, when playing Heretic, you realized by making the Slot 7 replace Mace Spawner, Anytime there is a firemace, the slot 7 pickup replaces the firemace for all of the spots when the firemace could appear, and In heretic only be spawned once. Sorry if there is no way of replicating this, I'm just asking.

It's...incredibly, incredibly wonky, and I'm not happy at all with its current implementation. I can't say the next build will fix it, but I do want to address it sometime down the line.

[Untitled]

Nice Catch, Dekw.
-About the Hellstaff: In terms of what we can do to the non-tomed version of it (fires once per 4 tics, 3-24 damage a shot) (For comparison, Normal Plasma Rifle is once per 3 tics, 5-40 damage a shot), Dekw suggested to me that we make it so it fires twice per cell used. This way, although power-wise it's still underwhelming, it's at least more efficient than Doom's plasma, and cells are consumed at a slow rate.

[Aqua Kitty]

Untitled would like to know if we can post feedback again in the extremely impactful space left by the recent complete and profound breakthrough in the development of samsara by the greatest of codewizards.

But he doesn't want to ask and break the silence brought about by such a great accomplishment.

So I did it for him.

Sure. There's no real need to ask permission to post feedback. That's why this topic is here, after all, heh.



For those keeping track, you may have noticed we've been kind of mum about stuff.
Strife compatibility has been kicking our ass, and I've been working on a special surprise, but we're finally nearing completion and are very eager to get this out the door.

What these screenshots reveal will be old hat to those that don't hang in our channel, buuuuuuut it's still going to be interesting anyway.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Ooh, that means BJ can send an army of old-school Nazis against Strife's robot Nazis, doesn't it?

Another thing that would be cool is if each character had his own Good ending in Strife.

Also, I'd love a "Samsara Player" userbar like the Brutal Doom one I have.

[Ijon Tichy]

-Speaking of which, when playing Heretic, you realized by making the Slot 7 replace Mace Spawner, Anytime there is a firemace, the slot 7 pickup replaces the firemace for all of the spots when the firemace could appear, and In heretic only be spawned once. Sorry if there is no way of replicating this, I'm just asking.

This is a bad thing? After all, the only reason that the Firemace was made to spawn only once on a map, and only 75% of the time, was so the roflinstagib balls of steel weren't so easy to get at.

I guess having it spawn only once per map in Heretic (with 100% chance of spawning) will work, though.

Edit: You're welcome

[dekw]

This is a bad thing? After all, the only reason that the Firemace was made to spawn only once on a map, and only 75% of the time, was so the roflinstagib balls of steel weren't so easy to get at.
Edit: You're welcome

1. ijon do you just find it easier to post solutions than mortal words
is that your true nature
also thank you

2. WELLLLLllllll the firemace spawns for corvus whenever a crossbow would have, and the slot 7 enables the roflinstagib mace for him, sooo it would be a bad thing insofar as firemaces in every possible place would be in the original (or worse, possibly).

[Ijon Tichy]

Some super-duper-concept work that's being done. Term and I think it can go places, but I wanna see what you guys think.



edit: post 500, god damn.