Gameplay extension|Interesting wads|mods (wad, pk3, other)

[Zantum]

Sorry, if not allowed section of the forum.

Some time ago, I was interesting to looking wads|mods for Doom, but find some problems with it(map compilations only, not much time for it).

So I interesting in wads|mods, which:
- Do a variety of gameplay|extension it.
- No new weapons, ammo, etc. Minimum adding/replacing enemies, ammo replace, etc is allowed.
- Without distracting aesthetically(graphics quality, stylistics).
- Arsenal balance(without powerful weapons like Russian Overkill and other similar mods), maps(without undue confined spaces, fire from all sides, etc)(if is), situations(without kinks, shoals, especially excessive)(maps, if is).

By just maps(not mods), I interesting in big and more size maps, which has:
- Excellent design(like original Doom 1-2 and more advanced than originals).
- Balance(see latest point for wads|mods).
- Playable for single and co-op.

Optional requirements:
- Brutal Doom compatibility(I use Brutal_Zandro_SE.pk3). Minimal non critical errors(game runs and works without shutdowns), non logging but fixable conflict is allowed.
- Zandronum compatibility/support(I use 1.2).

Examples:
Doom RPG - as I understand, compatible with DoomRL Arsenal. But works under GZDoom and has non standart way for creating a working build.
Doomguy Visor Hud - Interesting from similarity to Metroid Prime helmet.
Metroid Dreadnought - Metroid(SuperMetroid|MetroidPrime) wad. v1 final released, four maps(one PvE, three Deathmatch), further development is possible(dont know about map compilations). Fully compatible with Zandronum and Brutal Doom, but with last has conflicts, which not logging(no errors).
Satanic Redux + NecroRunner Mode - interested in difficulty. Not compatible with Zandronum - critical errors while launching.
Samsara - another FPS characters. Currently, except Doomguy, avaliable Corvus, Chex, B.J. Blazkowicz, Parias, Duke Nukem, Security Officer(Marathon main character?), Ranger(Quake). Probably will be another characters(one of videos has main character from Unreal). Version is 0.3(presently). Fully compatible with Zandronum and Brutal Doom, but while launching report about not critical error(yellow color).

Other examples:
Legacy of Suffering
The Ultimate Torment & Torture
ArmageDoom

- System Shock 1|2 TC.
- RTS|Mini-RTS Mod.
- Doom RPG for Zandronum (dont find working wad|mod)
- (with Doom RPG as option) Random Maps Generator
- Stealth system (Thief based) [maybe will be not very well, but wanna believe in maps for this if mod will possible]
- Improved|Advanced Bots/AI Bots (find standart bots actions strange. Try on Jenesis wad)

[IdeIdoom]

Optional requirements:
- Brutal Doom compatibility(I use Brutal_Zandro_SE.pk3). Minimal non critical errors(game runs and works without shutdowns), non logging but fixable conflict is allowed.


MetroidDreadnought(SuperMetroid|MetroidPrime) wad. v1 final released, four maps(one PvE, three Deathmatch), further development is possible(dont know about map compilations). Fully compatible with Zandronum and Brutal Doom, but with last has conflicts, which not logging(no errors).

I will point out that people here get a little grumpy with Brutal Doom. It "was" a fun mod when it came out but then it became stale. I will say that Brutal Doom compatibility should be dennounced as no one will be playing brutal doom with some other mod. No one will develop a mod which will be compatible with brutal doom intentionally (except HuD based, sound based and probably item based? I dunno). Metroid Dreadnought is a prime example of a mod that replaces all items and weapons with metroid ones (or custom made ones which are very similar to Samus' weapons) and will not be able to work with BrutalDoom but it's still fun without BrutalDoom.

[Cruduxy]

Rules 2 and 4 are anything but not conflicting..

[Zantum]

I will point out that people here get a little grumpy with Brutal Doom

I dont care, its personal problems, I think.
I play with people, which use this mod in co-op parties and it was normal.
Dont see real reasons dont do special version of Metroid Dreadnought, which dont be has conflicts with Brutal Doom. (as with any other wad|mod)
Also, its optional requirement.
And its offtopic - in the first post specified that I was interested, so that I do not see the point in reading the morality.
Sorry for possible sharpness and roughness.

Rules 2 and 4 are anything but not conflicting..

Dont see conflicting - I play with people with Brutal Doom and its hard to survive and replaced weapons dont do it more easy than with original weapons. Probably its different from maps design(I play with people in Jenesis).
And one more thing - do not take the phrases literally.

[Espio]

Dont see real reasons dont do special version of Metroid Dreadnought, which dont be has conflicts with Brutal Doom. (as with any other wad|mod)
Also, its optional requirement.

Well you see.. a majority view it as not fitting in very well with the current theme or any theme of major mods like MD. In a sense BD can do fine on it's own, it doesn't need compatibilities with any major mods to try and make things more... well, can't put a word on it.

As for optional, it's sounding like it's more of a necessity if anything, but maybe I'm just reading wrong.

[ArcheKruz]

It is not the job of the mod makers themselves to have it be compatible with Brutal Doom, if anything it's the other way around. Go bug Marcos Abenante about it, don't ask for compat patches here.

[Zantum]

Repeat again:
- It's optional requirement. Another words - its not important.
- Interesting recomendations(thread name), not morality.
- Its offtopic, because its about patches|fixes. Patches|fixes discussions must be in another threats(special or by the wads|mods).

Hope for understanding.

[Ænima]

Offtopic:
Yeahyeah we've discussed this "BD compatibility" thing to death in the past. It's a modder's choice to make a patch if they want their mod to be compatible with BD. Otherwise you're basically shitting on us and saying "your mod doesn't cater to my tastes, i'm going to override all the hard work you put into this mod with a flashy unbalanced clusterfuck". When you sit down to eat Thanksgiving dinner, do you throw the turkey your aunt slaved over onto the floor and replace it with Burger King? and The fact that someone can't leave their little BD comfort zone and play mods the way the author intended for them to be played is really just sad. OP, don't take this personally, it's just a rant i've been wanting to get out for a while now.


Ontopic:

[Zantum]

Offtopic:

I think, people can:
1. Do forks.
2. Do editing.
Note: if it pk3 or wad editor(like WinRAR)
Both - without author notification

Ontopic:

embarrassed thats it one of your projects.

[The Toxic Avenger]

Let's not get snarky now.

Posts like that aren't going to fly.

[IdeIdoom]

Ontopic:

embarrassed thats it one of your projects.

Now that's mean. A person has put a lot of work into that project, was popular at some point, and probably was treated as "good" and you just harshly tell him that.
Just because it doesn't have Brutal Doom compatibility, you ignore the mod.

[MrSetharoo]

Ontopic:

embarrassed thats it one of your projects.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Zantum]

Just because it doesn't have Brutal Doom compatibility, you ignore the mod.

Not attribute to me your fantasies, please.

A person has put a lot of work into that project, was popular at some point, and probably was treated as "good" and you just harshly tell him that.

Perhaps I should point out that the personal opinions based on personal playthrough have a higher priority than the recommendations based on the logic "popular, famous, many people plays". "popular, famous, many people plays" means for me nothing. Personal opinions means alot.

In any case, I see no other ways for exclude misunderstandings and offtopic.

Hope for understanding. And sorry.

That there is no perturbation, example of a personal opinion based on personal playthrough(its translate, sorry one more time):

"I immediately sat down to wad ArmageDoom from Sergeant Mark IV.
This is something completely wild and difficult. Needless to say, in the best sense of the word. Wade is the plot. SG - sergeant who, after the attack on the city you know who have been cut off from their unit and had to join him. When he manages to find survivors, it appears that part in particular very steep Phobos and Crash were somewhere locked. He finds them, and with them winning mastermind. Then it turns out that you need to take control of the power plant is not something, not something like that. After this mad race for a long, long road to the checkpoint, and the final mission - to this very checkpoint which will have to endure, along with several dozen paratroopers 10 waves of attacks. What is particularly interesting - there is a dialogue and inventory. In the inventory mirth like grenades, first aid kits, night vision goggles and the like. In the dialogues ... It's certainly never Shakespeare, but it's Doom. By itself, the story is not very strong literary, but Carmack has talked about it, and I fully agree with him. The main thing that it is. And yes, after each mission - insert text story. Extremely cute.

Mapping. Maps are made with a very impressive detail, down to the simulation of bricks have fallen out of the wall, and using the capabilities of ZDoom - inclined surfaces, two floors, and so on. City maps were great fun as the rest of the way. The last card - even a masterpiece.
Sometimes you can notice the texture of Duke Nukem 3D (or rather, did not notice they are not ...), but it can be forgiven. In some places there are flaws in the geometry and texturing, alas. It looks unpleasant, but can also be forgiven.
Interactivity level - windows broken, cars on the streets explode in refrigerators in homes - beer, and so on.

Process. It burn! From the very beginning to the SG crowd throwing imps and soldiers from all sides, on which there is only a rifle. However, there rifle shoots at a rate of about 600 rounds per minute, so it does not have to be bored. Do not think about the unhealthy hardcore style "and is now behind you will be 20 imps, and do not even think that you will go through it." Here they are in a regular manner climb out of the woodwork, alleys, streets and driveways, so get used to it soon. A quiet place to find it is very difficult, constantly have to literally break through the crowd of opponents.

Very interesting issued weapons. The first half of the game - it's basically a rifle and a shotgun. Yes, minigun and rocket launcher will too, but cartridges for them ... Even a shotgun cartridges sometimes a luxury. And if too distracted by trivia or neakuratno shoot, it will be possible and even the necessity of close combat with the knights of hell for example. And this is just gorgeous ...

Balance here is definitely corrected in the direction of more dynamic. Opponents are dying faster and do not cause damage to custom, rapid-fire weapons and high damage. But cartridges and kits a bit, so you still can not make mistakes.

Particularly in the arsenal is worth noting a heavy machine gun, flame thrower, and a portable nuclear installation. And yes, napalm grenades. But the usual plasma gun and BFG is not here. More precisely, the plasma gun will appear in the final map, but more powerful and less rapid-fire. Just do not have the usual pistol, instead - a rocket launcher and unusual single shot.

Should be prepared also to a certain humor, a bit of beer replenishing health, SG comments about Duke Nukem 3D posters on the wall. There is also a dark sense of humor, but in moderation.

Verdict - 9.10. Hurricane gameplay, good mapping, existence of the plot and characters, massive battles, good atmosphere. Minus point - for nedorabotannost vada manifested in errors with textures and the possibility of losing save game due to conflicts with inventory.

Post Scriptum - I almost forgot the music. The music is just chic and fully corresponds to the process."

[IdeIdoom]

A person has put a lot of work into that project, was popular at some point, and probably was treated as "good" and you just harshly tell him that.

Perhaps I should point out that the personal opinions based on personal playthrough have a higher priority than the recommendations based on the logic "popular, famous, many people plays". "popular, famous, many people plays" means for me nothing. Personal opinions means alot.

Right, so commenting on personal opinions is a sin nowadays, by your logic. I commented on what you said about the mod, an opinion with no explaining on why the author should feel embarrased for making the said mod. Personal opinions can differ from good to bad and usually are the ones to start flame wars.

[Zantum]

Right, so commenting on personal opinions is a sin nowadays, by your logic.

Its fantasies again.

no explaining on why the author should feel embarrased

I say about myself only, not about author. I embarrased, because author recomends me one of their projects. I think, its normal has doubts in terms of competence if proceed from logic like "author thinks what his works is best". Maybe it seems doubtful, but I dont know why its worse than regular praise.

Personal opinions can differ from good to bad

On detailed opinions possible conclusion(s) and decide for yourself to play or not.

[Ænima]

Wow so apperantly my innocent offer to play a gameplay mod i made was percieved as attack on your ego. I never said "THIS IS BETTER THAN BD CUZ I MADE IT". You are paranoid.

[Konda]

As far as I understand the OP's trying to say that it's lame for an author to recommend their own mod because the author may likely be biased about the value of their work. Instead, the OP prefers to have other people recommend the mod, with their personal opinion on why the mod is actually good, and not just because of statistics like popularity/etc.

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With that said, I would personally like to recommend as a "Gameplay extension|Interesting wad|mod." While it has fantastic remakes of the (almost) entire Doom 2 map set, it also provides gameplay enhancements such as adding modified and polished Skulltag weapons and new monsters, and it makes the experience look just as good with its effects. You can also play on other maps with Super Skulltag's weapons, AFAIK. Sadly people were biased towards the mod back in the day when it was first released because of forum drama where the mod's author was involved.

[Catastrophe]

I personally don't mind brutal doom but I have to stop you here.

Dont see conflicting - I play with people with Brutal Doom and its hard to survive and replaced weapons dont do it more easy than with original weapons.

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[Ivan]

Looks balanced to me.

[Newb The shrubbery]

I think brutal doom should consider that other mods exist instead. So contact Mark and have him work out the conflicts between every other mod that has been created instead. That way only one person has to work out compatibility between mods instead of 50 other people having to do work for one mod.