[split] Automatic SR50

Tux · #1

SR-50 automation is considered unfair, as it provides a means for the cheating player to use SR-50 at a level of effectiveness that is not humanly-executable and is fully automated, functioning without any input from the cheating player. The end result is a fully-automated straferun speed that is significantly higher than a non-cheating player can achieve.
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/SR-50_automation
for fucks sake why do i have to create dramas everywhere I go i'm sorry[/size]

#2

Tux wrote: SR-50 automation is considered unfair, as it provides a means for the cheating player to use SR-50 at a level of effectiveness that is not humanly-executable and is fully automated, functioning without any input from the cheating player. The end result is a fully-automated straferun speed that is significantly higher than a non-cheating player can achieve.
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/SR-50_automation

Not that I have a real opinion on the matter, but it isn't exactly cheating if everyone has access to this knowledge publicly in terms of binds. It reminds me of the same argument years ago when SR50 was posted on a certain forum before, and a minority of people cried about short cuts and cheating.

Zandronum allows for automation so go for it.

#3

Tux wrote: SR-50 automation is considered unfair, as it provides a means for the cheating player to use SR-50 at a level of effectiveness that is not humanly-executable and is fully automated, functioning without any input from the cheating player. The end result is a fully-automated straferun speed that is significantly higher than a non-cheating player can achieve.
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/SR-50_automation

Its meaning only for singleplayer speedruns not for competitive matches. Its not big deal use auto strafe50 in ctf or duels. It dont give you big advantage.

Nati46 · #4

capodecima wrote:
Tux wrote: SR-50 automation is considered unfair, as it provides a means for the cheating player to use SR-50 at a level of effectiveness that is not humanly-executable and is fully automated, functioning without any input from the cheating player. The end result is a fully-automated straferun speed that is significantly higher than a non-cheating player can achieve.
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/SR-50_automation
Its meaning only for singleplayer speedruns not for competitive matches. Its not big deal use auto strafe50 in ctf or duels. It dont give you big advantage.

It definitely does make it faster to turn and doesn't require you to learn SR50. Not that I have ever heard of someone being banned in any port for auto SR50 but it does give an advantage to movement which is reflected in both SP and MP.

also, I tried it out and I either did it wrong or that it is not really 'sr50 automation'; It only corrects your strafing angle while sr50ing to take into account the 37 vs 45 degree angle of sr40 vs s50, but it doesn't allow you to turn your mouse while straferunning hence not considered to be s50 automation.

#5

You can run almost same speed maybe only 0.5 slower with normal "strafe on key". I use this for years. Its why i speak its not big deal in multiplayer, yes in speedrunning this 0.5 sec means a lot.

Absolute Zero · #6

inb4 omg cheat dmflag pls

in fact, I would encourage. Zandronum is a potential engine to make new games, like mm8bdm is one that was built targeting this specific engine. for this reason, i think that sr50 (and maybe sr40 yo) should be optional, at least in the modder's side.

*uses shield to protect from stones and tomatoes*

Nati46 · #7

capodecima wrote: You can run almost same speed maybe only 0.5 slower with normal "strafe on key". I use this for years. Its why i speak its not big deal in multiplayer, yes in speedrunning this 0.5 sec means a lot.

You're talking about sr50 in general. It definitely give you an advantage, and is used by many high level players (Who I got the bind from in the first place). that "0.5" sec is as meaningful in speedruns as it is in CTF or 1on1, and while not all good players use it it definitely is benificial to some.

TheMightyHeracross · #8

capodecima wrote: You can run almost same speed maybe only 0.5 slower with normal "strafe on key". I use this for years. Its why i speak its not big deal in multiplayer, yes in speedrunning this 0.5 sec means a lot.

SR50 is not a cheat- that's the strafe on key trick you're talking about. However, this script automates it- and that is a blatant cheat.

Nati46 · #9

TheMightyHeracross wrote:
capodecima wrote: You can run almost same speed maybe only 0.5 slower with normal "strafe on key". I use this for years. Its why i speak its not big deal in multiplayer, yes in speedrunning this 0.5 sec means a lot.
SR50 is not a cheat- that's the strafe on key trick you're talking about. However, this script automates it- and that is a blatant cheat.

This is not a cheat either, as it uses zandronum's features. But as said before this doesn't appear to actually automate sr50 so it's irrelevant. .

Luke · #10

Nati46 wrote:
TheMightyHeracross wrote:
capodecima wrote: You can run almost same speed maybe only 0.5 slower with normal "strafe on key". I use this for years. Its why i speak its not big deal in multiplayer, yes in speedrunning this 0.5 sec means a lot.
SR50 is not a cheat- that's the strafe on key trick you're talking about. However, this script automates it- and that is a blatant cheat.
This is not a cheat either, as it uses zandronum's features. But as said before this doesn't appear to actually automate sr50 so it's irrelevant. .

Opinions.
Despite of the fact that the majority of the competitive players don't see it as a cheat, I do.

Do it without a fancy script or you're just cheating. Doom.exe doesn't have a key that allows you to use the SR-50, nor it is an intended feature, it's just a flaw in the engine, hence if you can abuse it without an external help it's ok, if you don't... See how speedruns that use scripts are listed into a different category since the scripts make certain things easier.

But then again, it's all matter of opinions, and technically none of the competitive players will give a damn about those who see the SR-50 script as a cheat...

edit:

Spoiler: but just (Open)
Tux wrote: SR-50 automation is considered unfair, as it provides a means for the cheating player to use SR-50 at a level of effectiveness that is not humanly-executable and is fully automated, functioning without any input from the cheating player. The end result is a fully-automated straferun speed that is significantly higher than a non-cheating player can achieve.
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/SR-50_automation

/edit
/parenthesis

#11

The difference between something automated and automatic is that anything that is "automatic" needs human input while an automated script does not. I just said it was automatic because it will automatically correct your angle and activate sr50 as nati said and no you cannot look while using sr50 and if it were the case that would make this an automated script which is considered cheating.

Nati46 · #12

Well now that you cleared it out, as most people are used to the normal, uncorrected SR50, and due to the fact that there isn't a backward option posted yet, I don't think it will be so 'revolutionary' so to speak of.
Still pretty interesting to see what you can do with this port...

John Zombie · #13

Luke wrote:
Opinions.
Despite of the fact that the majority of the competitive players don't see it as a cheat, I do.

Do it without a fancy script or you're just cheating. Doom.exe doesn't have a key that allows you to use the SR-50, nor it is an intended feature, it's just a flaw in the engine, hence if you can abuse it without an external help it's ok, if you don't... See how speedruns that use scripts are listed into a different category since the scripts make certain things easier.

But then again, it's all matter of opinions, and technically none of the competitive players will give a damn about those who see the SR-50 script as a cheat...

edit:
Spoiler: but just (Open)
Tux wrote: SR-50 automation is considered unfair, as it provides a means for the cheating player to use SR-50 at a level of effectiveness that is not humanly-executable and is fully automated, functioning without any input from the cheating player. The end result is a fully-automated straferun speed that is significantly higher than a non-cheating player can achieve.
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/SR-50_automation
/edit
/parenthesis

It's always hilarious when somebody brings the "This wasn't possible in doom.exe" argument, this is called an "enhanced port" for a reason. Otherwise we might as well forbid:
-any resolution higher than 320x200
-freelook
-jumping
-connections that aren't IPX
-support for other OSes besides DOS
because hey, doom.exe doesn't support those either!!!

No but seriously, if you want to play like doom.exe just stick with doom.exe without bringing retarded arguments in here

#14

This would have a probably negligible effect on ctf/duel. However, this could be very advantageous for racing wads like jumpmaze and zanrun, but what affect does this have if you're already at the correct sr50 angle? I'm so used to sr50ing that I already instantly turn to the sr50 angle by default rather than the sr40 angle.

#15

The I guess you don't need it since it wouldn't have any advantage for you.

Luke · #16

John Zombie wrote: It's always hilarious when somebody brings the "This wasn't possible in doom.exe" argument, this is called an "enhanced port" for a reason. Otherwise we might as well forbid:
-any resolution higher than 320x200
-freelook
-jumping
-connections that aren't IPX
-support for other OSes besides DOS
because hey, doom.exe doesn't support those either!!!

No but seriously, if you want to play like doom.exe just stick with doom.exe without bringing retarded arguments in here

Honestly, the only hilarious and retarded thing here is how people can't get a very simple concept.

Or how, otherwise, they pretend they don't understand.

(:

edit:
But no, seriously. For the sake of the intelligence let me smash on your RETARDED face how much a dumbass you are, or you act as just to piss the shit out of myself. Fuck politeness and good manners, you're just a moron and I believe that morons can understand something only when the others relate on their same level.

So are you coming here to open your mouth to say bullshits like "if we can't have enhancements we would run doon in 320x200". I'm like.... FOR REAL!? Are you so much of an asshole that you pretend that you don't understand that changing the resolution does nothing except changing the number of pixels that compose the certain thing X?

Are you so bloody RETARDED that you pretend to act as if being able to freelook or jump would be the same as having a program that automatically searches the enemies on your screen and aims at them?

Because, you dear dickhead, what a script does is doing something for you, like searching for an enemie on the screen or sending a serie of commands to the console hitting only one key instead of having to use 3 fingers.

To come to a point: if nobody cut any of your fingers I don't see why you should get a fucking advantage using a goddamn script.

Now go to shove your stuff into a muff and stop bullshitting on the internet. In all honesty the world is already full of complete idiots and you don't need to contribute behaving like a retarded while you're not, and if you're retarded I can't give a damn: fix your goddamn brain and either way stop bullshitting on the internet you BANANER.

PS: I'm sorry Infurnus, but I really had to tell him a couple of things. Publicly. Go on an ban me, I was very aware I would have been.

Luke · #17

legion wrote: this is not a cheat and will never be recognized as such (you won't get banned for it)

if you choose not to use it, well then it's your call

I know, and it's cool, my point is just that... well you know. Matter of opinions. :-)

#18

Yes Luke you was catched to JZs trap, he is always like this, first "amaze" ppl with his doom knowledge in funny way and after call you retard, bcz he is too smart. If you want be like him you have to move to italia, finish high school, after be 3 years unemployed and smoke weed with your friends and after when has your brain 3 brain cells you have to join college. And you will smart like JZ. Easy like this. :D

Nati46 · #19

Luke wrote:
John Zombie wrote: It's always hilarious when somebody brings the "This wasn't possible in doom.exe" argument, this is called an "enhanced port" for a reason. Otherwise we might as well forbid:
-any resolution higher than 320x200
-freelook
-jumping
-connections that aren't IPX
-support for other OSes besides DOS
because hey, doom.exe doesn't support those either!!!

No but seriously, if you want to play like doom.exe just stick with doom.exe without bringing retarded arguments in here
Honestly, the only hilarious and retarded thing here is how people can't get a very simple concept.

Or how, otherwise, they pretend they don't understand.

(:

edit:
But no, seriously. For the sake of the intelligence let me smash on your RETARDED face how much a dumbass you are, or you act as just to piss the shit out of myself. Fuck politeness and good manners, you're just a moron and I believe that morons can understand something only when the others relate on their same level.

So are you coming here to open your mouth to say bullshits like "if we can't have enhancements we would run doon in 320x200". I'm like.... FOR REAL!? Are you so much of an asshole that you pretend that you don't understand that changing the resolution does nothing except changing the number of pixels that compose the certain thing X?

Are you so bloody RETARDED that you pretend to act as if being able to freelook or jump would be the same as having a program that automatically searches the enemies on your screen and aims at them?

Because, you dear dickhead, what a script does is doing something for you, like searching for an enemie on the screen or sending a serie of commands to the console hitting only one key instead of having to use 3 fingers.

To come to a point: if nobody cut any of your fingers I don't see why you should get a fucking advantage using a goddamn script.

Now go to shove your stuff into a muff and stop bullshitting on the internet. In all honesty the world is already full of complete idiots and you don't need to contribute behaving like a retarded while you're not, and if you're retarded I can't give a damn: fix your goddamn brain and either way stop bullshitting on the internet you BANANER.

PS: I'm sorry Infurnus, but I really had to tell him a couple of things. Publicly. Go on an ban me, I was very aware I would have been.

Lmao first of all hold your horses. You're being very aggressive here for no reason.
First of all, stuff like resolution, while not being extreme, actually do affect your gameplay by giving you a clearer view, and easening the strain on your eyes (Which if you weren't aware, actually does affect your ability to focus on the game without straining your eyes). And he does have a point, this port never claimed to be a pure OS port thus is not subject to those restrictions, IN FACT even Odamex which is praised as the closest to OS feel, allows this automatic SR50 (albiet with different commands)
Also on your third and 4th paragraphs you are putting sr50 and aimbots on equal scale, when you are absolutely wrong.
SR50 has been available as a one key bind for many years now, originally from zdoom. The specific bind itself is almost a decade old, possibly more, and there have not been any bannings for it from what I know. So it is accepted and probably will always be, as Legion pointed out. Whats more, this isn't made the same way aimbots are made, the only aimbots I ever heard of were external programs or client modifications while this is just a series of aliases which just uses zandronum's intended features.
Also it irks me that you aren't very active competitively but care so much about this issue, this has been common for years and even more common since I posted it in the forums (it has almost 10k views so I guess most people playing competitive modes atleast own the bind if not using it) and while some people don't use it, I've never heard of someone saying this is a 'cheat'.

#20

Luke wrote: Opinions.
Despite of the fact that the majority of the competitive players don't see it as a cheat, I do.

Define cheating in this situation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cheat

I won't get into too much of your post but I will address key points.

Luke wrote:Do it without a fancy script or you're just cheating.

Does this go for wads that binds SR50 and Turn180? Why is it a cheat? Why is it a cheat if it's publicly accessible? How would the person be cheating. Is it only by virtue of circumventing a limitation?

Luke wrote:Doom.exe doesn't have a key that allows you to use the SR-50, nor it is an intended feature, it's just a flaw in the engine, hence if you can abuse it without an external help it's ok, if you don't

Someone already pointed this out, but it does fall in line with my last question about circumventing limitations. There are a lot of features in Doom ports that transcended what was already implemented, and some of which were more of an improvement.

Luke wrote:But then again, it's all matter of opinions, and technically none of the competitive players will give a damn about those who see the SR-50 script as a cheat

Then why do you?

Zandronum