I need help with GVH.

[I Like Memes]

Hey I'm new to this forum so I hope this is the right place to put this topic. Anyway I need tips on how to be a good human in GVH (Ghouls vs Humans) since I always play ghouls and get my ass handed to me but yet when I play humans I still die a lot.

[mifu]

Moving to Zandronum Talk instead.

As for tips, you should watch other players for a while. It's a way to get better after all.

[Cyber']

I'd help this guy out but he just trolls other players in the server.

[Ænima]

Try not to die.

[I Like Memes]

I'd help this guy out but he just trolls other players in the server.

please explain

[fr blood]

That depend on which Ghoul vs Human you are playing, there are a lot of versions.

For example if you play LOD(Legacy of Darkness the most balanced in my view), you can manage to deal with them with any classe(use hunter in big maps, marine in small maps), if you still don't manage to get some frags use more simple classes like the cyborg or the ghost buster.

If you are on NS(Nordic Saga) it's more harder for humans because ghouls are more powerful(Sjas faster, Jitter makes more damage, without talking about the range classes like Defiler or IceFiend) so you can try the same tactic but you will need more skill to deal with them, without talking about big amount of small maps(ghoul side).

And for the addon with the big amount of classes I can't help you, this one has no balance at all, just try to find a class that can deal easily and quickly with ghouls without losing too much hp at once. I play this one really when I'm bored, but it can become fun when you play it with some friends.

[Erma]

And for the addon with the big amount of classes I can't help you, this one has no balance at all, just try to find a class that can deal easily and quickly with ghouls without losing to much hp at once. I play this one really when I'm bored, but it can become fun when you play it with some friends.

As for Multiverse ("addon with the big amount of classes"); I rarely see you on my server. I have seen you twice in total, if I'm not mistaken.

However! Compared to the very beginning of Tons of Extra Classes/TOEC to Multiverse nowadays; things did improve! The following statement has been said quite often in my server: "Legacy of Darkness is more like Dota, while Multiverse is like League of Legends."

For those that don't know these two games (could be!): Dota is a highly detailed and all-round balanced moba without any actual meta. League of Legends is more a cartooney version of Dota with a lot of references to other games, isn't exactly balanced so to say (Some League players out there in Zandro will know!) and has an actual meta.

Each class in particular in Multiverse has its hard counterparts, while in LoD and NS; you can pick a bit of everything (We're getting there too in Multiverse as it progresses...). It's not that you are forced to stick to a class; there are a fixed number of classes that have a certain damagetype that might be more effective against certain enemy classes.

Yes, I do see Legacy of Darkness and Nordic Saga as the superior GVH's; though Multiverse has the most variation and has its unique touch to the original GVH.

To quote Cyber: "I like memes" has been banned from the GVH Multiverse server for multiple reasons, of which one is indeed trolling... Or as Cyber said yesterday: "Grade D trolling."

[Cruduxy]

1) Pick Cyborg, Marine or hunter.
2) Keep running away while shooting.
3) Win

That is what most humans who top score do anyway. Most ghouls have garbage tier gap closing for what are supposed to be melee classes.

[Ænima]

I played GVH Multiverse all day yesterday and I can safely say that there is no consistent tactic that guarantees victory other than changing classes often and spamming everything. SOME classes are actually better for certain maps than others, like the dude with the minigun, he's boss at tight corridors like the pacman map. Or Mel, she's got ninja jumping skills that are great for maps with lots of ledges (but her crossbow sucks and her only other weapon is MELEE fists ... What good does melee do against ghouls that will rape you if you get within 8ft of them?).

But Jesus christ it's a mess otherwise. I made a simple comment about quality control yesterday and was met with "Quality control doesn't matter because this is Doom" from either Hek or one of his friends, I don't remember.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun. But it's fun in a clusterfuck kind of way.

[Torvald]

-he just trolls other players in the server.

By being bad? It isn't that hard to dodge.

[Konda]

To get started you first need to learn how to run and avoid obstacles fast. To run faster, combine a strafe key with the move forward key and turn your view a bit on the side so you end up going forward even when you're strafing. This way you run faster. If there is a long straight path in front of you, then also use the jump button. Then you're at max speed possible. When you master that and decide to be a "cool kid", then search for SR50 on the forums here. I personally don't use it.

The next step is to improve aiming and prediction skills. If you pick marine or planeswalker(LOD), you will need good aiming skills. If you pick cyborg and ghostbuster, you'll need prediction skills, which means to know where your enemy will move in the future and fire the projectiles in that direction so the enemy runs into them. Hunter requires both aiming (for lightning bow) and prediction skills, and he's the fastest class in the game (except for choke, idk about hek classes since I don't play that). So being a good hunter means mastering all 3 skills. And btw, prediction skills are important when facing jitterskull or morgwyr(LOD), not just when shooting and them, but also when you need to dodge their attacks.

If you wanna be a good ghoul though, other than prediction (probably the most important skill for ghouls) and running, you need to train your dodging skills and learn to move in a way that makes you harder to predict. You may also wanna improve your "jumpmaze" skills. My suggestion is to find a file named jumpmaze.wad or jumpmaze.pk3 and start a new game offline. It is a map pack that is designed to train your jumping skills. It has maps sorted by difficulty, starting with the easiest. If you manage to beat first 20 maps then you'll get a good idea of Zandronum's jumping mechanics. This can be of great use on maps with many obstacles.

Oh, and know the class you use to great detail.

[Erma]

I played GVH Multiverse all day yesterday and I can safely say that there is no consistent tactic that guarantees victory other than changing classes often and spamming everything. SOME classes are actually better for certain maps than others, like the dude with the minigun, he's boss at tight corridors like the pacman map. Or Mel, she's got ninja jumping skills that are great for maps with lots of ledges (but her crossbow sucks and her only other weapon is MELEE fists ... What good does melee do against ghouls that will rape you if you get within 8ft of them?).

But Jesus christ it's a mess otherwise. I made a simple comment about quality control yesterday and was met with "Quality control doesn't matter because this is Doom" from either Hek or one of his friends, I don't remember.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun. But it's fun in a clusterfuck kind of way.

Thank you, I suppose!

Mel's crossbow is there to be used against flying ghouls, considering she has nothing else that could make it fair against any flying ghoul type. Deals extra damage to flying ghouls, too! It does suck against large ground ghouls (e.g.: Jitterskull, Choke, Emtalic, etc.).

She is an agile and fast class, with melee and is one of the tankiest classes in the game. Although the combination of "agile", "fast" and "tanky" does not make any logical sense; she needs those three attributes to catch up with ghouls (Or evade with her dodge/high jump abilities), move swiftly over maps and withstand a lot of attacks so that she has a chance of actually using her melee, rather than having (like you said) ghouls raping Mel within a 8ft range.

That quality control quote thing was not me.

2015-Jul-26 21:45:05 CHAT Aenima: quality control though ...
2015-Jul-26 21:45:11 CHAT [E]Otacon: since when
2015-Jul-26 21:45:13 CHAT [E]Otacon: quality matters
2015-Jul-26 21:45:15 CHAT Aenima: okay
2015-Jul-26 21:45:15 CHAT [E]Otacon: in doom
2015-Jul-26 21:45:17 CHAT [E]Otacon: lol
2015-Jul-26 21:45:21 CHAT [E]Otacon: because i dont recall
2015-Jul-26 21:45:22 CHAT [E]Otacon: it did

As we are reaching an end to alternate possibilities for newer classes, the quality thing is something I'd like to hammer on from this point forward.

Yes, I have been adding some "eye candy" aspects to the mod, though not a lot of it. This will change soon, nonetheless!


Another thank you for giving your opinion!

[Ivan]

I like how he takes "his" mod seriously that he needs to put logs, defend the mod's "balance" and what not. I find it quite funny he's even still around, like, really, when are you going to leave? And please don't compare actual quality games like DotA or LoL with GvH that's just ridiculous. There's no way your mod is like LoL either as LoL itself even has some form of balance.

[Catastrophe]

And for the addon with the big amount of classes I can't help you, this one has no balance at all, just try to find a class that can deal easily and quickly with ghouls without losing to much hp at once. I play this one really when I'm bored, but it can become fun when you play it with some friends.

As for Multiverse ("addon with the big amount of classes"); I rarely see you on my server. I have seen you twice in total, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh please don't.

[Erma]

I like how he takes "his" mod seriously that he needs to put logs, defend the mod's "balance" and what not. I find it quite funny he's even still around, like, really, when are you going to leave? And please don't compare actual quality games like DotA or LoL with GvH that's just ridiculous. There's no way your mod is like LoL either as LoL itself even has some form of balance.

What I mean with the Dota/LoL comparison with the existing GVH's is the style of each game. Easier said: Dota is the moba with quality. Legacy of Darkness is the GVH with quality. League of Legends is the game with the most variation and possibilities. Multiverse is the GVH with most variation and possibilities (With this, I do not mean that Multiverse is better! I've already mentioned that both LoD and NS are both the superior ones in comparison to Multiverse.)

Ofcourse Dota and LoL are two beautiful gems in the gaming world. Sorry for the miscommunication there. However, you are absolutely right: LoL has some form of balance. 100% true. The difference between Dota and LoL however, balancewise, is that there is no meta in Dota. You can really pick whatever character you want in any lane.

Sadly, in LoL, that isn't always the case. Back to Dota: There is no system of masteries or runes like in LoL. In LoL, you have to earn these and unlock more points for the masteries and runes as you're progressing in the game to have an advantage towards the enemy team. This is not the case in Dota; if anyone picks a certain character, then there is no difference between the same character in the enemy team. They're the same, hence making it more fair that way.

And I have to disappoint you that I am not planning to leave as of now. My apologies for that. Do note that I respect the authors of Nordic Saga and Legacy of Darkness. I admire the amount of time spent on both these GVH's which must've been extremely exhausting and I appreciate that greatly, along with the fact that Nordic Saga and Legacy of Darkness are THE two GvH's that made the impossible possible.

Ivan, if you wish; we could continue this discussion/conversation... preferably via the forums or IRC. If you want to atleast. All up to you.

Also, this thread was about helping this fellow out on GVH. I would prefer we could stick to that from here on out.

To "I like memes":

The best thing you can do, in any GvH, is to observe and know what you can do with each character. Learning everything about the GvH you want to keep playing is key here. And lots of practice! Practice makes perfect and knowledge is the key to victory!

[Laggy Blazko]

This is a suggestion about regular GvH and I don't know if it's still valid to Multiverse, as I don't play it (yet):

Ghouls are a melee based team, although (supportive) ranged attacks exist because not everyone can reach high places except, without addons, sjas and jitterskull. If you're a ghoul, stay near someone in your team and try to surround humans. If you're alone (or a creeper), try to find a way to ambush them. Humans have less way to avoid ghoul attacks in closed areas, so try to lure them in there.

Humans are mostly about ranged attacks and they basically must try to "run" from ghouls. Pay attention to other people in your team in case they need help, but If ghouls get too close or they try to surround you, just run for your own life and try to find other humans later. Try to stay in open areas as you have more space to shoot and run. Look around you often and watch every path that leads to your position.

Which ever team you are on, if you're the last player in it, I suggest hitting and running.

[Frits]

I like how he takes "his" mod seriously that he needs to put logs, defend the mod's "balance" and what not. I find it quite funny he's even still around, like, really, when are you going to leave? And please don't compare actual quality games like DotA or LoL with GvH that's just ridiculous. There's no way your mod is like LoL either as LoL itself even has some form of balance.

Except Gvh beta 3, best mod, best human teammates back then.
Never forget!

[Awesome Possum]

To master GvH is not a simple task Memes, but with practice and learning about each class and their abilities it will help you greatly at improving. I would help you if you really want it, but all I can say is to practice with how you move/dodge, and where you aim/predict your shots. I wasn't great at all when I first started, but after loads of practice and learning the game, I became somewhat good. Still, I tend to die a bunch, mainly from stupid mistakes.

As for the topic on Multiverse, regardless of the balance, it's still pretty fun! While it may not be the most balanced of the GvH addons, I've found that all GvH's had some balance issues, and I bet it's impossible to fully balance GvH. I've played the early stages of ToEC and got to learn things and practice until I was able to do good. With all of the frustration that I got smacked with, I eventually learned what classes are counters to others and what's best to use when the other team has so many Jitters/Marines/Chokes, etc. I tend to see newer people get upset because they might've died to a bs death, and while it does happen, you can learn to counter it and make sure it doesn't happen again. Overall, it has some sort of balance if you get into it for a bit and learn it. If you think the balance is this bad, you should see the earlier versions of the mod, that's when everything was so unbalanced that you could fry the enemy team only using just one class, and never die! (Jitterskull.. Hunter..) Still, there's great fun to be had, and it's pretty populated each day.