WhoDunIt - Combat Overhaul (r81 released)

[Deadon]

Thanks for answering all my ideas that now i see are not exactly proper seeing that i haven't played it. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
But i could help by re coding the scoreboard, add a few things like showing the weapon they used, the best innocents. making medkits take away when taken in large amounts. some of that if i can get to it. But I'm not promising!

[Dark-Assassin]

http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... 80#p768242

[Theshooter7]

Well, it's late at night for me, and I've got nothing going on at the moment, so I think I'm going to explain some things/quell some concerns in further depth here.

[quote="Untitled"][quote="Conflagrated"]EVERYONE now has 100 health. Including the murderer.[/quote]Do you want the game to be innocent-won 90% of the time? This doesn't really seem possible for the murderer if the murderer can be 1v1'd.[/quote]
The idea now is that the murderer gets damage resistance instead of just a straight Health pool increase. This increases his effective HP without directly changing it, and gives us more control and balance over things. For example, in the current release, a murderer playing against, say, 20 innocents, has a -lot- of health. This allows him to do things he normally shouldn't do, and some weapons become useless against him. Examples: being able to tank the damage of his own poison gas, running through molotov fire with impunity, take repeated hits from various weapons (including guns) and surviving just fine. Etc.

By controlling resistances instead, and leaving him at 100hp, we can make it so he doesn't have a resistance to things like gas or fire, and thus balance it out much more that way. We can actually balance out the guns by not giving him resistance to them and thus guns become more dangerous (do note that we're balancing out the gun damage now as well to account for all of this).

Another plus is that we can modify his resistances over the course of the game and balance them out for various numbers of players. In the current release, if the murderer had a lot of success in a game with many innocents (either because of rampant paranoia, a perfect gassing, or other reasons), then it was near impossible to stop him by finale time because he'd have waaaay more health than is reasonable to have against a small handful of surviving players. The usual reason the murderer loses at this point is because he made some kind of huge mistake or managed to run out of sanity. Otherwise, it's a pretty easy win.
[quote="Untitled"][quote="Conflagrated"]Players can now kick targets, pushing them back a great distance and slowing them at the cost of stamina.[/quote]I feel this will make it too hard for the murderer; but it depends on some numbers so we'll see.[/quote]
The murderer can perform this kick as well. So if an innocent gets reckless with the kicking and drains too much of his own stamina, the murderer could attempt to kick the weapon out of his hands.

A few other things I'm going to mention:

• Removal of numbers from the Health bar means it's harder to 'HP Check' against someone.
• The removal of friendly fire resists from the innocents (and removal of 'murderer nerfs') now means that everyone, including the murderer, does FULL weapon damage to one another.
  
  Soooo...you might ask, "why would the murderer bother with his knife then when he can just do 25 damage/hit with the wrench and not be revealed?" Good question, and we have a good answer: aside from the murderer not getting a TK halo upon killing the person, and thus making him pretty obvious, we've made it so that the murderer's knife does not use stamina or have damage reduction when stamina is low. That's right. A Full 40 damage per full hit with the knife. The knife cannot be kicked out of the murderer's hands, he moves faster with it out (including sprinting speed), and attacking with it does not cost stamina. Oh, and he can do backstabs, which are an instant kill. All in exchange for revealing his identity.
  
  Using other melee weapons however, cost stamina per swing, do less damage when stamina is low, don't provide any speed bonuses, and can be disarmed from you. But in exchange you can keep a lower profile (usually).
  
  As you can see, we've made the knife as appealing as possible. One feature I was considering implementing to seal the deal is that you don't gain health and sanity for any kills not made with the knife or your own traps. It might be overkill, but we want things to be fair on both ends. The murderer has a high-damage knife, so make him use it.
• I intend to add a few more externally usable functions for anyone who makes addon maps to utilize. For example, I'll be changing the sanity drain system to use a factor value. So instead of having to mess with inventory capacities and such on the murderer, one can just set the drain factor to change how fast or slow it depletes.
• Speaking of addons, a lot of the changes we've made will pretty much break most if not all community maps made so far. Be ready for that.

[CloudFlash]

As you can see, we've made the knife as appealing as possible. One feature I was considering implementing to seal the deal is that you don't gain health and sanity for any kills not made with the knife or your own traps. It might be overkill, but we want things to be fair on both ends. The murderer has a high-damage knife, so make him use it.

Don't. Good gods, don't.
If the murd will have to be forced into killing people with knife, there will be no 'Tker/Murd' dilemna, which was a great thing to build up some more suspense, which is the main attraction of WDI :T

[mr fiat]

heh these rebalances sound very interesting, it makes me genuinely interested in wdi again.

[Zeberpal]

As you can see, we've made the knife as appealing as possible. One feature I was considering implementing to seal the deal is that you don't gain health and sanity for any kills not made with the knife or your own traps. It might be overkill, but we want things to be fair on both ends. The murderer has a high-damage knife, so make him use it.

Don't. Good gods, don't.
If the murd will have to be forced into killing people with knife, there will be no 'Tker/Murd' dilemna, which was a great thing to build up some more suspense, which is the main attraction of WDI :T

On the other hand, give murderer some bonus for killing innocents with other weapons or if they TK each other.

[ibm5155]

I always killed with the knife, and some times when murder I just made people think I was a tker, so the run to kill me but when we were on a safe place (for me), I would active kniofe and bam...

Also, is there a better function to select a murder? I think if everyone could store a bool cvar if a player was a murder, so it would only select people with the not a murder value, and when everyone was already selected, it would reset the data from everyone and start it again...

And, will be there some implementation for tkers? there's some annoy maps when people work together '-', like one day there was a group of guys on the same house, one of then was the murder, I was trying to kill the murder while the other guy (that was a normal player) came to kill me D:

EDIT:

AND WHEN we will be able to play the first WDI map again? more than one year that the trailer on elevator passed, and I never played that map updated '-'

[Conflagrated]

Also, is there a better function to select a murder? I think if everyone could store a bool cvar if a player was a murder, so it would only select people with the not a murder value, and when everyone was already selected, it would reset the data from everyone and start it again...

The funny thing is Shooter implemented a blacklist a very long time ago. If you've been the murderer, you cannot play as the murderer again until a sufficient number of others have played. It's set up so that everyone has a chance to take a stab at everyone.

And, will be there some implementation for tkers? there's some annoy maps when people work together '-', like one day there was a group of guys on the same house, one of then was the murder, I was trying to kill the murder while the other guy (that was a normal player) came to kill me D:

It's not possible to punish teamwork like that; Even if we could, we wouldn't. Players forming pacts like that are part of the game and it's up to the antagonist to break them up quickly so that they lose their advantage of numbers.

Don't. Good gods, don't.
If the murd will have to be forced into killing people with knife, there will be no 'Tker/Murd' dilemna, which was a great thing to build up some more suspense, which is the main attraction of WDI :T

The knife is only the most efficient way to kill someone, at the cost of attracting the attention of everyone nearby.

Using other weapons now lets you put on a facade of attacking a potential murderer, or just being a douchy innocent. Either players will assist you, or hesitate to attack for just a moment if they haven't convinced each other of innocence.

Not to mention that the kill tone was removed. This means players can no longer wait for someone to die in order to see who in their group is innocent.
So there's your tension. :p

[Cruduxy]

25 damage wrenches on other innocents sounds like TKs best dream coming true..

[CloudFlash]

You forget that the whole hitting system is changing. 25 will probably be full blow with full stamina against Chubbs

[Cruduxy]

You forget that the whole hitting system is changing. 25 will probably be full blow with full stamina against Chubbs

If anything is appearant from that video its that innocents overall damage will increase since if they partially miss an attack it can still damage you. -sidestrafing nerf-

[Conflagrated]

New hud is just about done: http://i.imgur.com/YejH9Pz.jpg
And here's the "innocent" version: http://i.imgur.com/KGP0nta.png

The little pips represent each 'block' of health regen, with the very last one telling how much health you can have before your stamina regen suffers.

The murderer doesn't have these pips, instead being able to fully regenerate his health. However, he has a little marker that'll move above his healthbar that telegraphs how much damage he is currently resisting, in percentages of 20.
If there are more than five players, he will take less damage the more players are present.

Also new to the murderer's hud is how sanity is telegraphed. Rather than just making the background red, their healthbar will crack instead - slowly progressing towards the left.

Also the knife bloodies up after stabbing another player. Taking a swim will wash this off.

[ibm5155]

Isn't that hud a bit tinny?

I think an effect from an gvh class for murder would be cool, it's called meepy, when you use his effect, it'll appear some clones running from some time, to random areas, to confuse people who's the real one and you can safely scape. That would be a cool item to the murder.

and maybe some fake gun trap, where the player would get a knife skin for 1 minute? hehe...

[Conflagrated]

r76 released for public consumption!
WDI now requires Zandronum 2.0 to run! You can get it here.
Make sure you bind +SPEED to a key for sprinting. This is your run/walk toggle by default.

We're hosting a testing server at: 76.186.91.72:3001

Massive changes to the combat system, a brand new hud, and tweaks to the game logic.
There are a few incomplete features and assets present in this build that will be worked on after we're content with the current changes to combat. Kindly disregard any doomguy gasping you may hear in the meantime.

Combat

• Melee weapons now deal damage in an arc, with the 'center' dealing full damage and the edge dealing 'glancing' damage.
  - Rebalanced melee damage in light of this.
• Players now have stamina, influencing several of their actions.
  - Players cannot sprint unless they have at least 20 stamina, breaking any slowdowns they have.
  - Being slowed while sprinting will instead reduce stamina.
  - Melee weapons cost stamina to swing, but can be swung for half damage if the player is exhausted.
  - If a player is under 20 stamina, they can have weapons kicked out of their hands.
• Players can now kick targets, pushing them back a great distance and slowing them at the cost of stamina.
  - Kicking with low stamina will result in a slower recovery time from the kicking action
• Players now have a segmented health bar and will regenerate health in 20 point sections.
  -The murderer is excluded from this behavior, and instead regenerates all of his health at a much slower rate.
• Dropping below 20 HP no longer slows the player; Instead, they now have slower stamina regen.
• EVERYONE now has 100 health. Including the murderer.
  - Instead, the Murderer gets damage resistance that scales with the percentage of innocents
• DamageFactor has been removed from all innocents.
• Gun bullets can now ricochet if they hit a nearby surface, causing them to bounce off in a random direction which can hit ANYONE, though for less damage

Items

• Stims now heal 10 instantly, and 25 over 5 seconds.
• Fake Stimpacks now use the exact same graphic as the regular Stimpack. More caution is needed now!

General

• Overhauled HUD, which is more compact, uses relative offsets to look (roughly) the same on all resolutions, and conveys more information such as your currently held weapon
  - Remaining spare ammo is no longer showed; instead you must look in your inventory bar for it
• When the round ends, everyone's perspective is changed to that of the last player to die.
• The innocent marker for the murderer is now less obtrusive.
• Blood spatters have had their screen duration halved.
• Players no longer use Pain100-25, as it could be abused to 'murder check'.
• The knife now changes appearance and leaves a trail of blood when attacking players. (Both parties leave a trail)

[abbuw]

I really like the new combat overhaul. It was fun testing it out, although there are a few flaws in it, but that might have been to do with the server it was hosted on. I do like that the innocent's weapons pretty much do the same damage to everyone. I killed a few people with firearms as a murderer. The new end game screen is pretty neat.

Two complaints, though. Sprinting and kicking can be used to potentially exploit maps, and the fists still use the old "lock on" method.

EDIT: Also, I noticed that you can't push corpses, which is a little lame.

[CloudFlash]

Could someone mirror the download? My Avast qqes about 15 different 'dangers' like crazy, and that's not exactly helping my virus-related paranoia ;_;

[Theshooter7]

Could someone mirror the download? My Avast qqes about 15 different 'dangers' like crazy, and that's not exactly helping my virus-related paranoia ;_;

Mirrored on Coding Buff

[CloudFlash]

Many thanks 3333

[mr fiat]

* patiently awaits this being hosted on GV.

[Leonard]

There is only two things I'd like to say/request.
I really love the new hud but I think it still misses a few things.
First I think adding a percentage would be useful because since it's a small hud you don't notice health drop as much as you did in the old hud.
Perhaps putting the small percentage on top of the player color part of the hud would work.
Secondly I hate being only able to see the item you are currently holding in your inventory and that's for both the old and the current hud. I think putting the same inventory that the althud have would look really nice and at the same time be extremely useful as you would be able to see all your inventory.