All Out War II: X -R8: Now with Rhinos, Lightning Troopers, and more!

[Catastrophe]

I'm just going to throw this out there -- I think the Rifle should be combined with the Machine Gun like in the older versions of AOW and just remove the Rifle from the class menu entirely.
This might compensate for the Machine Gun being not that great.

I disagree, a weapon shouldn't be both good close range and long range, it'd be too versatile for only 300 credits.

Are you saying it'd be too versatile for the $300 Machine Gun class or it'd be too versatile for any weapon?

The price really, a cheap gun shouldn't be an all-in-one kit y'know?

[De-M-oN]

Buff mg damage slightly and it will be fine.

And SSG at 400$.

please.
please.

@XutaWoo I never calculated it by the damage value.
But you have to agree that a machinegun is 100$ higher, but just slightly more powerful than SMG, while the 100$ cheaper SSG does a hell of damage. And both weapons are close range weapons as well. So this doesnt make much sense that the SSG is only 200$
__

mechs are an other story I dont debate now ..
I said to them something in earlier post.

[Konda]

I was thinking of $400 too. At first I thought $350 but imo it would still look kind of cheap.

[XutaWoo]

I don't think having an ultimate weapon for $200 really is a good idea, though.

And, yes, the SSG is an ultimate weapon in games with DOOM's damage scale. Not so much in a PvE mode - though it's still top-tier in those - but in PvP it's second only to the thing that literally shoots invisible lines of death. Get up close and point at somebody, and they're dead. Even if it has Call of Duty range in this, it should still be treated as a top-tier weapon instead of the middle-grounder it is.

Honestly I'd say instead of nerfing it, just plain buff it, buff what carries it, and make it a late-game option. If you want to keep it at vanilla strength, then it should be a cone of death on some fragile speedster that dominates tight quarters and ambushed but has little in the way of dealing with making it across fields.

Having it as some early-game upgrade really isn't ideal, and trying to fit it in that price range can't be done without butchering it. So I'd advise just go crazy with it and make it one of the options you use to finish games.

[jdagenet]

I'm just going to throw this out there -- I think the Rifle should be combined with the Machine Gun like in the older versions of AOW and just remove the Rifle from the class menu entirely.
This might compensate for the Machine Gun being not that great.

I disagree, a weapon shouldn't be both good close range and long range, it'd be too versatile for only 300 credits.

Are you saying it'd be too versatile for the $300 Machine Gun class or it'd be too versatile for any weapon?

The price really, a cheap gun shouldn't be an all-in-one kit y'know?

I got you now.

Well, maybe lower the price of the Machine Gun to $200? The Machine Gun seems like it just "tickles" the other players -- doesn't really do much more damage than the Sub-Machine Gun.

Out of the Sub-Machine Gun and the Machine Gun, I'd definitely choose the Sub-Machine Gun, mainly because of its movement speed. I'd like there to be at least some good characteristic about the Machine Gun to influence players to buy it.

[De-M-oN]

400$ it should have at least. Thats the price of the gatling - and the SSG is sure at an usefulness like the gatling.

Instead of making the Machinegun cheaper, I recommend a damage increase. Like said.

[Konda]

Honestly I'd say instead of nerfing it, just plain buff it, buff what carries it, and make it a late-game option. If you want to keep it at vanilla strength, then it should be a cone of death on some fragile speedster that dominates tight quarters and ambushed but has little in the way of dealing with making it across fields.

Interesting idea, having a buffed SSG for something like $900. But then it would easily top the flame swordsman, which is also $900 (unless the latest patch lowered the price). Other than that it wouldn't be able to be used regularly and the shitstorm from the player base would be upon us. Interesting idea nonetheless.

[Ascertabus]

I'd like to throw out my opinion that the Flame Sword DOES NOT FIT with the futuristic theme of AOW. I am all for adding more fire-themed classes and weapons, but the sword feels very out of place. The concept and spritework give off this medieval/Hell weapon vibe, and it... well, it kinda bothers me since we're not fighting the forces of Hell in this mod.
Plus, it's not really viable since you could just go with the OP SSG for melee range.
Someone earlier in the thread referenced the "Combustion Autorifle" from the Omega mod. I think that would work much better. Maybe add incendiary grenades and napalm launchers for another fire class?

[De-M-oN]

Interesting idea, having a buffed SSG for something like $900

Then a Quad Shotgun would be much cooler :D :P

[Konda]

Well, maybe lower the price of the Machine Gun to $200? The Machine Gun seems like it just "tickles" the other players -- doesn't really do much more damage than the Sub-Machine Gun.

Out of the Sub-Machine Gun and the Machine Gun, I'd definitely choose the Sub-Machine Gun, mainly because of its movement speed. I'd like there to be at least some good characteristic about the Machine Gun to influence players to buy it.

There you go, even if the machinegun just lowered its price to $200, I'd still rather use the $0 SMG (which is more effective) than the $200 machinegun. So yeah, machinegun definitely needs some sort of a buff in order to be relevant in the game. And keep the price at $300.

Edit: Referring to SexualSalamander's post, I agree. SSG is better at melee than the flame sword, and the flame sword doesn't fit the AOW2 theme. Unless it gets new sprites where it actually looks like a futuristic sword that has openings through which it bursts flames.

[XutaWoo]

Is the Flame Swordsman a glass cannon? Because if it isn't, it could easily be made into a bulky fighter to contrast with the SSGer. The SSG could use his agility and burst damage to wipe out targets before they shatter him, while the Flame Swordsman keeps some continuous damage while holding some serious melee threat if his opponent slips up. I haven't really seen a Flame Swordsman, so I don't particularly know how he works, but I have my doubts that he couldn't be adjusted into something like that - unless, of course, he is a glass cannon.

[Catastrophe]

Honestly I'd say instead of nerfing it, just plain buff it, buff what carries it, and make it a late-game option. If you want to keep it at vanilla strength, then it should be a cone of death on some fragile speedster that dominates tight quarters and ambushed but has little in the way of dealing with making it across fields.

Interesting idea, having a buffed SSG for something like $900. But then it would easily top the flame swordsman, which is also $900 (unless the latest patch lowered the price). Other than that it wouldn't be able to be used regularly and the shitstorm from the player base would be upon us. Interesting idea nonetheless.

That is an interesting idea. I could revert the spread and range nerf and just make it an expensive weapon, hmm...

I'd like to throw out my opinion that the Flame Sword DOES NOT FIT with the futuristic theme of AOW. I am all for adding more fire-themed classes and weapons, but the sword feels very out of place. The concept and spritework give off this medieval/Hell weapon vibe, and it... well, it kinda bothers me since we're not fighting the forces of Hell in this mod.
Plus, it's not really viable since you could just go with the OP SSG for melee range.
Someone earlier in the thread referenced the "Combustion Autorifle" from the Omega mod. I think that would work much better. Maybe add incendiary grenades and napalm launchers for another fire class?

I agree it doesn't fit the theme, it was mainly inspired by the insanity crate from way back.

The combustion autorifle should be pretty easy to add, I'll do it.

There was a long time ago where the grenade launcher could fire incendiary and tiberium grenades. It was awfully overpowered, never again.

Is the Flame Swordsman a glass cannon? Because if it isn't, it could easily be made into a bulky fighter to contrast with the SSGer. The SSG could use his agility and burst damage to wipe out targets before they shatter him, while the Flame Swordsman keeps some continuous damage while holding some serious melee threat if his opponent slips up. I haven't really seen a Flame Swordsman, so I don't particularly know how he works, but I have my doubts that he couldn't be adjusted into something like that - unless, of course, he is a glass cannon.

Yes, he is intended to be a glass cannon. You're right though, the ssg does counter him very hard.

[jdagenet]

That is an interesting idea. I could revert the spread and range nerf and just make it an expensive weapon, hmm...

This is my vote.

Would two grades of armor be added to the class as well like some of the other higher-priced weapons or would that be too over-kill -- literally?

[Cruduxy]

If the ssg is soo annoying why not just give some of the more expensive classes an armor type that megitate its damage.
Beside shouldn't weapons be priced by their risk\reward and game impact ratios, not their ability to win duels. -Go ahead with ssg against mechs. Plusthe obelisk severely reduces its ability to fight early game -Defenders just use long range weapons with the obelisk defending them.

[k4r4t3k4n4k4s]

You can't teamswitch to other team that has lower amount of players if teams has even number of buildings. Only way to switch is to spectate and then rejoin and that makes you lose exp. Which you don't want to do in the middle of a game.

I also wonder what's broken with team balancing not balancing teams throughout the game. Is that a server setting or what?

[Popsoap]

this is where developer discretion comes into play, you know; samsara for example would've been run straight into the ground if it listened to everyone going "omg strifecaleb" despite the massive balance issues
I thought it was well known that letting a community dictate the contents of a mod, with everyone having equal voice, didn't lead to good things

And you're essentially telling me not to listen to the community? Fuck that shit.

No, he's telling you to know the difference between someone requesting

"OMFG I WNT THE SSG TO 1-SHOT EVERYTHANG @ ANY RANGE AND ALLSO GIVE $$$ FOR SELECTING TEH CLASS!"

and

"I want the SSG to be more accurate, but less damaging."

[Catastrophe]

this is where developer discretion comes into play, you know; samsara for example would've been run straight into the ground if it listened to everyone going "omg strifecaleb" despite the massive balance issues
I thought it was well known that letting a community dictate the contents of a mod, with everyone having equal voice, didn't lead to good things

And you're essentially telling me not to listen to the community? Fuck that shit.

No, he's telling you to know the difference between someone requesting

"OMFG I WNT THE SSG TO 1-SHOT EVERYTHANG @ ANY RANGE AND ALLSO GIVE $$$ FOR SELECTING TEH CLASS!"

and

"I want the SSG to be more accurate, but less damaging."

Yes, I am ignoring people who don't play all out war nowadays. Which is why he's ignored.

[Konda]

Just for the record, I play AOW nowadays, but under an alias :V

[Catastrophe]

Just for the record, I play AOW nowadays, but under an alias :V

Yeah it's easy to tell who plays and doesn't play, don't worry :)

[AOW2 Feedback Giver]

I'm just going to throw this out there -- I think the Rifle should be combined with the Machine Gun like in the older versions of AOW and just remove the Rifle from the class menu entirely.
This might compensate for the Machine Gun being not that great.

I disagree, a weapon shouldn't be both good close range and long range, it'd be too versatile for only 300 credits.

>implying machine gun is good at any range
This would have more merit if the machine gun was worth the button presses it takes to select the class.