All Out War II: X -R8: Now with Rhinos, Lightning Troopers, and more!

[Ijon Tichy]

I am not nerfing the super shotgun, it will stay true to vanilla doom. End of story.

okay so you have a game mode where you have to buy weapons
where you can turn into a giant metal beast of death and destruction (presumably)
where you have things such as miniguns that fire lasers
where you can place beacons that call in airstrikes or orbital bombardments
where part of the game is literally just running around and shoving crystal money into a receptacle
where the objective is (again, presumably) to destroy a base rather than kill people
where you can set up turrets and mines to kill people without you being anywhere near them, or even being able to see them
where you have health and ammo regeneration four minutes in
where there are crates spewed around which either screw you over or make you a god of war, with everything in between
where you can fucking /fly/

you have an armor system which is set up to provide resistances to certain weapon types and the ssg makes almost all of it redundant

you have a multitude of people complaining about it, as has been happening for years

and yet, even as you will nerf and buff things based off a single person's words, you're worried about the ssg not being vanilla and so won't change it

what


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A_FireBullets (15.7, 11.7, 20, 5, "HandgunPuff", 1, 512)

and then it's not even vanilla (wider spread, range limit)
are almost guaranteed oneshots seriously this important to you

[Catastrophe]

and yet, even as you will nerf and buff things based off a single person's words

If people really wanted SSG nerfed and Util buffed they would have been on the poll where around 30 people voted.

So, SSG is actually even weaker in AoW and than in vanilla doom. Thank you for proving my point that it doesn't need to be nerfed.

Edit: You say that I change stuff just because one guy said it? Rofl how ironic.

[De-M-oN]

but the gatling and SMG needs or what ? XD

The SSG is op especially for its price.

Of course the SSG DM Community wont vote its op :D

How much of a price bump are you thinking for the SSG?

Around Gatling Gun I would say seems legit for it. 200$ is way too less.

The Machinegun is already more expensive and remember how goddamn shit this gun is.

[Ijon Tichy]

If people really wanted SSG nerfed and Util buffed they would have been on the poll where around 30 people voted.

this is where developer discretion comes into play, you know; samsara for example would've been run straight into the ground if it listened to everyone going "omg strifecaleb" despite the massive balance issues
I thought it was well known that letting a community dictate the contents of a mod, with everyone having equal voice, didn't lead to good things

So, SSG is actually even weaker in AoW and than in vanilla doom. Thank you for proving my point that it doesn't need to be nerfed.

200 damage is now less than 200 damage
it can still oneshot any class 98% of the time, and for $200 (a whopping one enhanced refinement), that's pretty damn insane, especially since no other weapon does that

Edit: You say that I change stuff just because one guy said it? Rofl how ironic.

you were going somewhere with this right
because right now it's nowhere



edit: wait a dick

first you were saying you want to keep it true to vanilla doom
now you're saying it's weaker than vanilla doom

which one is the lie?

[De-M-oN]

@ijon: Vanilla Shotgun doesnt have a range limit. Just spread. The AOW Shotguns do have - for whatever reason if there exists spread settings - a range limit. Maybe they wanted to stay vanilla damage and tried to compensate it by the range limit.

The range limit though helps for AOW the SSG being not effective at range at least xD So with the actual situation : Thanks god the SSG has at least the range limit

Me feels really unfair: The SSG stays at 200$ with its full power and you nerfe the gatling...

I dont understand it

[Catastrophe]

edit: wait a dick

first you were saying you want to keep it true to vanilla doom
now you're saying it's weaker than vanilla doom

which one is the lie?

I've never taken a look at the SSG; I've never realized that its' spread was nerfed.

this is where developer discretion comes into play, you know; samsara for example would've been run straight into the ground if it listened to everyone going "omg strifecaleb" despite the massive balance issues
I thought it was well known that letting a community dictate the contents of a mod, with everyone having equal voice, didn't lead to good things

And you're essentially telling me not to listen to the community? Fuck that shit.

[De-M-oN]

They nerfed the spread and built in a range limit.

Maybe they wanted to stay vanilla damage and tried to compensate it by the range limit.

[Ijon Tichy]

And you're essentially telling me not to listen to the community? Fuck that shit.

itt: "discretion" means "complete disregard" now

you learn something new every day!

[Catastrophe]

And you're essentially telling me not to listen to the community? Fuck that shit.

itt: "discretion" means "complete disregard" now

you learn something new every day!

I dunno, considering the message you're relaying to me is essentially "don't listen to what people say". Btw, go be narcissistic elsewhere.

[jdagenet]

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[Ijon Tichy]

I dunno, considering the message you're relaying to me is essentially "don't listen to what people say".

then why would I bring up

you have a multitude of people complaining about it, as has been happening for years

if I wasn't intending it as a point of support as to why you should change the ssg
I'm not trying to obfuscate my point; I tried to lay it out pretty clearly, and other people seem to have gotten it just fine

also you realize people tend to enjoy overpowered things more, right
hence why things like the first iteration of the caleb addon for samsara were so popular
and why my early mods were popular, as shitty as they were
as well as the mlw classes from way back; everyone wanted the OP weapons, even if they were unbalanced to all hell and could break maps easily

hence where the discretion thing comes into play, as someone who's unhappy with overpowered weapons and is trying to work out a system that would balance it out should probably have their opinion weighed in a bit more than someone who clicks a button on a poll saying "yes" or "no"

which, by the way, has voluntary response bias written all over it, and given the amount of people who play z& and don't join the forums or IRC, undercoverage as well; chances are the picture you get is heavily distorted and shouldn't be used for anything besides a textbook example of bad sampling

Btw, go be narcissistic elsewhere.

go be narcissistic elsewhere.

narcissistic

[De-M-oN]

Yes I dislike the range limit as well. Especially for the normal shotgun. For the SSG it is helpful with the actual situation xD Otherwise it would be even more powerful with its values it has actually. :D

But the gatling nerf, the removal of random damage and the SSG untouched and still only 200$ is really a disappointment. It annoys me in a way that I dont want to play it at the moment.

Nerfing the gatling doesnt make sense while staying the SSG untouched and same price.

re-enable random damage, buff the machinegun, raise SSG price, revert gatling change.

Its getting boring if the weapons get nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. Balance if needed in a way that it doesnt make all guns to pea shooters.

[De-M-oN]

lol ok. :D

But the gatling nerf still disappoints me and the global nerf (random damage) :D

[Konda]

If people really wanted SSG nerfed and Util buffed they would have been on the poll where around 30 people voted.

this is where developer discretion comes into play, you know; samsara for example would've been run straight into the ground if it listened to everyone going "omg strifecaleb" despite the massive balance issues
I thought it was well known that letting a community dictate the contents of a mod, with everyone having equal voice, didn't lead to good things

There is still backlash from the players about some changes regarding weapons. Now imagine the shitstorm that would be generated if a weapon half of the playerbase likes using gets changed. And no, a small change would mean no difference to the SSG, so it would have to be a bigger one.

Hell, even I like using it occasionally. It's useful for cleaning small areas like your buildings that need quick response. Losing this effect would make it kind of useless, considering the small range it has. I do agree it's kind of lame to use SSG during the entire game, but there are indeed ways to counter it, even in the renegade 2030 map where it's supposedly the most used weapon. Also, you need to have perfect accuracy at close range (that is to land nearly all of the bullets) to one-shot someone. So, be careful when you're going around the corners, and keep your distance from the SSG guys.

They nerfed the spread and built in a range limit.

Maybe they wanted to stay vanilla damage and tried to compensate it by the range limit.

I definitely don't think the shotguns should have a range limit, just add some horizontal and vertical spread -- if someone wants to test their Call of Duty "No Scope" skills and waste ammo trying to kill someone across the entire map, let them do it.

I prefer the shotgun the way it is now. If the distance gets increased, the shotgun can indeed be used for sniping as it's pretty accurate in its current range. To fix that you would have to upper the spread levels which will make it less effective in its previous range, and that range was pretty much ok. I am able to troll SSG players with a shotgun because it is precise at a longer range than the SSG.

And I don't think SMG needs a buff. In comparison to the other free weapons, it's pretty good. I agree that the machinegun is not that useful, though. It's less precise than the SMG and not that much more powerful.

[De-M-oN]

I didnt request a buff for SMG if you meant me Konda. (I dont know how weak it is with the random damage removal though). But here was a request to even nerfe the SMG.
Just the Machinegun could get a slight buff in damage.
_
A valid point konda about the shotguns. But for the standard shotgun I think it wouldnt be that necessary and could be solved by spread. Or an increase of range for the normal shotgun. It is at the moment really short!
For the SSG I just would like to see a price increase. It can stay untouched, but please a higher price like 400$ or sth like that. It cant be that a 300$ machinegun is a totally weak weapon, while a 200$ SSG is that powerful. (and both weapons are rather meant for close range)

[XutaWoo]

I feel like, if $200 is equal to 200 damage, then $500 should equal 500 damage and $1000 1000 damage and so on and so on.

It just makes sense, you know?

Even if you skyrocket the price to $500, though, then all of the other $500 weapons should have either 200 burst or more than 200 DPS, and the $1000s should do 400 etc.

Of course, less damage with hitscans that have range or really fast projectiles, but standard projectiles and other short range hitscans should have the same damage just about.

[jdagenet]

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[Konda]

I didnt request a buff for SMG if you meant me Konda.

Oh, then I must have misunderstood you.

And yeah, I'd be fine with a SSG price increase and a machinegun buff, but changing the SSG not that much.

Also I agree the gattling gun was OP. I don't know why some of you prefer the old one, but I sure as hell remember getting killed with 100HP in 0.5 seconds. While it didn't kill me in 0.5 seconds in a mid-far range, it sure as hell did kill me in 2 seconds. You could only stand a chance if you had some armor, but then again I don't see other weapons requiring higher armor to be dealt with.

[Catastrophe]

I'm just going to throw this out there -- I think the Rifle should be combined with the Machine Gun like in the older versions of AOW and just remove the Rifle from the class menu entirely.
This might compensate for the Machine Gun being not that great.

I disagree, a weapon shouldn't be both good close range and long range, it'd be too versatile for only 300 credits.

Edit: You guys mention that a 1,000 credit class should beat a 200 credit class and that is true, it should. But you gotta take into account for individual player skill and the lack of 1 v 1 scenarios in populated servers. Plus some weapons are simply there to counter specific classes.

For example, the juggernaut costs 3,000 credits and it can be easily defeated by a $500 artillery cannon. However the tradeoff is that it is able to easily kill every other mech in the game.

[jdagenet]

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