Spak City Private Style Public

[Reach Term]

I love this innovation... it's like the Berlin Wall during the Cold War. Red, like Reagan, told the USSR and the world to tear this wall down. To destroy this gated community and let of the newer players come and embrace priv.

Question though, would it be like this?

Non-Password Public Server Of Public CTF(With Priv Rules)

-OR-

Password Private Server Of Public CTF(Without Priv Rules)

Because I believe latter would be great.

There's a saying...

A cloud? Yes, are sediments.

[Torvald]

Hydra's general idea was to have a public ctf with priv rules; essentially priv without the password. Heavy moderation would be a must though to ensure everything sails smoothly.

[Ivan]

It is a good idea to do something about it, but "removing" is a bit extreme, in my opinion. Also, who would judge what is and what isn't disruptive to priv?

Removal is the only viable option. People seldom change, and if they do change and prove they are stable enough to priv again then we can add them/unban them.

The server admins would decide on who is disruptive or not, based on the general input from active priv members.

People do not change, their intents do. Let's assume you got this whole thing to work, the servers I mean. What will happen? Newbs will get bored of it, but they won't be really great because they lack the experience they could've had if they had played with the better players and since they got bored they'll want to try the actual priv. When they join and play badly, people will again curse them and call them retarded noobs and even kick or give them X hour vacations :)

This is not the way to do this. You just need to change the intents of people playing priv and make them overall nicer as I've mentioned before in a similar thread. Your suggestion will not provide a permanent solution to this problem.

[RedShirt]

The best way for new players to improve their skills is to play with the ones who have lots of them -- that's how it's always been. This is a good reason why having a separate priv for them is a bad idea: their skill progression would be slower, not to mention they could end up distancing themselves further from the main priv.

I know I would be and i'm sure there are others that are more than willing to help newer players learn how to play.

And Reach Term, we're still bouncing whether we should have a password or not but either way it will be using the private style rules.

[Hammerfest-]

So based on what I've read, this is pretty much a sort of hands-on approach on "How Priv Works." I like this idea...to an extent. Showing people how priv works benefits people in general. What I mean by 'people in general' is that the number of participants and players in priv are bound to grow, especially since it's not been as great as it has been in the last couple of years. Another beneficiary towards this little project would be the clan scene. With new players that come into the fold, it means new competition, and at the very least, new clans. It gives the older clans (H, A3, PRO, S, etc.) an opportunity to play new clans rather than themselves.

However, my only concern(issue) with this project is this...how hard is it to show people how to play priv? I personally think that the thread linked by RedShirt here is good enough an explanation on what to expect, and what's expected of you. It all comes down to what happens and how you play. I'll admit though, I am more inclined to fully support this as long as this can actually explain and show people the fundamentals of positions in priv (Offense, Defense, Mid, etc.), which Watermelon has volunteered to do so. If more people pitch in to show people how to play, the better the benefit for the Zandro community in general.

Something I really don't like about this thread and the way it's turning out to be are the last few responses. Why are we already jumping the gun, getting ready to tear people's heads off? At least these guys are willing to do something about it, despite their previous deeds from what, a year or so ago? When you have certain people saying "Oh you guys are elitists, always making fun of people.", look back and remember all the shit you've talked down on people before. You guys know who you are. I'm not here to bust people's chops or anything, but you can't point fingers at someone and call them 'elitist' if you've acted like one as well.

TL;DR, I support.

Just to add, Ivan wrote:

Your suggestion will not provide a permanent solution to this problem.

I agree, what we're presenting here is a solution, but not really a permanent one. I still support nonetheless, though.

[Tosen]

This is a very good idea. It is a very nice way to show new players "the ropes" of priv, rather than tossing them onto the streets of AOW and GVH.

With that being said, I also think everyone should advertise Zandronum on craigslist :D

[Torvald]

I'd be willing to sit down and show people the dynamics of priv alongside Water & Hydra.

[one_Two]

Crazy, crazy idea:

If the new account system ever gets implemented maybe people could be assigned a score for how well they play in ctf, like ELO points (used in chess, starcraft etc...) and this could determine what server they can play (possibly forcibly) that way players would learn to play in priv but would be able to play with people of a similar level. Obviously you improve by playing better players, but if you just get instantly eaten up you wont learn much. Also I realize that there aren't really that many priv games (or people playing) on a daily basis, but this could help improve that. Just an idea.

[Ivan]

Crazy, crazy idea:

If the new account system ever gets implemented maybe people could be assigned a score for how well they play in ctf, like ELO points (used in chess, starcraft etc...) and this could determine what server they can play (possibly forcibly) that way players would learn to play in priv but would be able to play with people of a similar level. Obviously you improve by playing better players, but if you just get instantly eaten up you wont learn much. Also I realize that there aren't really that many priv games (or people playing) on a daily basis, but this could help improve that. Just an idea.

That's a very good idea but as you said it's really crazy, only because it's probably very hard to implement and none of the developers would really want to focus on that at this moment.

[one_Two]

Crazy, crazy idea:

If the new account system ever gets implemented maybe people could be assigned a score for how well they play in ctf, like ELO points (used in chess, starcraft etc...) and this could determine what server they can play (possibly forcibly) that way players would learn to play in priv but would be able to play with people of a similar level. Obviously you improve by playing better players, but if you just get instantly eaten up you wont learn much. Also I realize that there aren't really that many priv games (or people playing) on a daily basis, but this could help improve that. Just an idea.

That's a very good idea but as you said it's really crazy, only because it's probably very hard to implement and none of the developers would really want to focus on that at this moment.

An assignment of points would be fairly easy (it could possibly be done with player names but I don't know how well acs handles strings like that) and maybe it could be used just for knowing a relative skill of a player, as opposed to defining where they play. I originally thought of this for dueling as you either win or lose, but yeah just putting it out there.

[Ivan]

Crazy, crazy idea:

If the new account system ever gets implemented maybe people could be assigned a score for how well they play in ctf, like ELO points (used in chess, starcraft etc...) and this could determine what server they can play (possibly forcibly) that way players would learn to play in priv but would be able to play with people of a similar level. Obviously you improve by playing better players, but if you just get instantly eaten up you wont learn much. Also I realize that there aren't really that many priv games (or people playing) on a daily basis, but this could help improve that. Just an idea.

That's a very good idea but as you said it's really crazy, only because it's probably very hard to implement and none of the developers would really want to focus on that at this moment.

An assignment of points would be fairly easy (it could possibly be done with player names but I don't know how well acs handles strings like that) and maybe it could be used just for knowing a relative skill of a player, as opposed to defining where they play. I originally thought of this for dueling as you either win or lose, but yeah just putting it out there.

Not that simple. You have to consider the enemy skill relative to the player's own skill and his/her team's skill. Then, you have to consider the "got carried" factor. If the player was really useless in that game, it's not fair for that player to get the same amount of points the rest of his/her team did. Next, if the player leaves right in the middle of match and someone fills in for that player, what will happen? Will you give points to the player who filled or not? Will you deduce points from the player who left or not?

At the very end of a round, then you will start distributing points. How will you distribute them? Kills, assists, captures, defenses... list goes on. It needs to be thought out very well but yeah, as an idea, it's really decent. You can see how well you progressed by the use of these points too. I think your suggestion has a better potential to fix our issues than the current one.

[one_Two]

Crazy, crazy idea:

If the new account system ever gets implemented maybe people could be assigned a score for how well they play in ctf, like ELO points (used in chess, starcraft etc...) and this could determine what server they can play (possibly forcibly) that way players would learn to play in priv but would be able to play with people of a similar level. Obviously you improve by playing better players, but if you just get instantly eaten up you wont learn much. Also I realize that there aren't really that many priv games (or people playing) on a daily basis, but this could help improve that. Just an idea.

That's a very good idea but as you said it's really crazy, only because it's probably very hard to implement and none of the developers would really want to focus on that at this moment.

An assignment of points would be fairly easy (it could possibly be done with player names but I don't know how well acs handles strings like that) and maybe it could be used just for knowing a relative skill of a player, as opposed to defining where they play. I originally thought of this for dueling as you either win or lose, but yeah just putting it out there.

Not that simple. You have to consider the enemy skill relative to the player's own skill and his/her team's skill. Then, you have to consider the "got carried" factor. If the player was really useless in that game, it's not fair for that player to get the same amount of points the rest of his/her team did. Next, if the player leaves right in the middle of match and someone fills in for that player, what will happen? Will you give points to the player who filled or not? Will you deduce points from the player who left or not?

At the very end of a round, then you will start distributing points. How will you distribute them? Kills, assists, captures, defenses... list goes on. It needs to be thought out very well but yeah, as an idea, it's really decent. You can see how well you progressed by the use of these points too. I think your suggestion has a better potential to fix our issues than the current one.

Good points, the only one I can't really see a way round is if someone else joins half way through. However a system like the ELO rating system takes away somewhat anomalous results and has a higher and lower cap, so if your much lower than another team or w/e you can't dip too low. CTF is a team game at the end of the day, so hopefully success in it would show your team worth.


EDIT: http://elo.divergentinformatics.com/ is quite good for showing how scoring could work.

[X-Ray]

Hey guys since Thanksgiving is finally over i can be more active on here but this is a nice idea adam for the new guys goodluck with it.

[Slyfox]

I'm down for this
[won't stop me in Ts though, i'll still be crackin' jokes :X]

[Llewellyn]

However I have a few concerns regarding how this would work. Would this server have a password? If not, how would you prevent players from disrupting the game play (ie. random people joining in mid game, or non captains refusing to spectate for the captains). It sounds interesting but at the same token you have to trust that the majority of the player-base will act responsible. I personally think the people in this community are well-mannered enough to maintain the etiquette of priv, but I feel when it comes to the random players off the street who don't read these forums will be more wild and less obedient towards the rules.

Actually if one of the decent ACS modders wasn't too lazy (I am too lazy) they could easily build a mod that lets you control player joining and prevent joining before capping etc. in like 5 minutes (basically someone could just add this to ZandroAdmin if they don't want to build a GUI.)

[Ænima]

However I have a few concerns regarding how this would work. Would this server have a password? If not, how would you prevent players from disrupting the game play (ie. random people joining in mid game, or non captains refusing to spectate for the captains). It sounds interesting but at the same token you have to trust that the majority of the player-base will act responsible. I personally think the people in this community are well-mannered enough to maintain the etiquette of priv, but I feel when it comes to the random players off the street who don't read these forums will be more wild and less obedient towards the rules.

Actually if one of the decent ACS modders wasn't too lazy (I am too lazy) they could easily build a mod that lets you control player joining and prevent joining before capping etc. in like 5 minutes (basically someone could just add this to ZandroAdmin if they don't want to build a GUI.)

Or someone with RCON could just kick those "random people" from the game. Or forcespectate them.

[Hammerfest-]

However I have a few concerns regarding how this would work. Would this server have a password? If not, how would you prevent players from disrupting the game play (ie. random people joining in mid game, or non captains refusing to spectate for the captains). It sounds interesting but at the same token you have to trust that the majority of the player-base will act responsible. I personally think the people in this community are well-mannered enough to maintain the etiquette of priv, but I feel when it comes to the random players off the street who don't read these forums will be more wild and less obedient towards the rules.

Actually if one of the decent ACS modders wasn't too lazy (I am too lazy) they could easily build a mod that lets you control player joining and prevent joining before capping etc. in like 5 minutes (basically someone could just add this to ZandroAdmin if they don't want to build a GUI.)

Or someone with RCON could just kick those "random people" from the game. Or forcespectate them.

But this would all just go back to the (As far as kicking or forcespectate) to the whole "but then is this really public priv/public hands-on experience of priv?" question. I too would just do it the old fashioned way and just RCON it but then people would complain about it.

[Tenchu]

I support this idea. To those thinking that these guys are trouble makers, they're trying to turn things around. they were once trouble makers, it doesn't mean they always will be. They're obviously trying to take responsibility with the community as a whole, and I appreciate that. The energy spent on trolling/harassing others can be used to make this community a better place, and that's just what they're trying to do.

Sounds great.

This post makes me feel all warm inside. I haven't seen Metal refer to Spak in a positive light since before LF died. While on the subject, I would like to give props to my old friend RedShirt for doing a good job of trying to rehabilitate Spak's public image, not an easy thing to do. Keep it up babs. ^_^

[Ænima]

However I have a few concerns regarding how this would work. Would this server have a password? If not, how would you prevent players from disrupting the game play (ie. random people joining in mid game, or non captains refusing to spectate for the captains). It sounds interesting but at the same token you have to trust that the majority of the player-base will act responsible. I personally think the people in this community are well-mannered enough to maintain the etiquette of priv, but I feel when it comes to the random players off the street who don't read these forums will be more wild and less obedient towards the rules.

Actually if one of the decent ACS modders wasn't too lazy (I am too lazy) they could easily build a mod that lets you control player joining and prevent joining before capping etc. in like 5 minutes (basically someone could just add this to ZandroAdmin if they don't want to build a GUI.)

Or someone with RCON could just kick those "random people" from the game. Or forcespectate them.

But this would all just go back to the (As far as kicking or forcespectate) to the whole "but then is this really public priv/public hands-on experience of priv?" question. I too would just do it the old fashioned way and just RCON it but then people would complain about it.

Then they need to not be pussies.

When a referee takes you out of the game for breakin' da flow, they're not doing it to spite you, they're doing it because (whether the person realizes it or not), that person is screwing the game up for everyone else.

I think everybody remembers playing kickball in 6th grade. There'd be a good game going when suddenly some asshole joins midgame and starts driving the ball in random directions. Yeah, many a jimmy were rustled.

---

Anyways. I'd be willing to play in this event.

EDIT:
Possibly make it a New Year's event? :)

[Quiksilver]

Hi. What now? Adam, I'm late, fill me in.