Staff & rules reform thread

Public discussion of the forum software and other things run by Zandronum staff.
legion
Contributor
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:36 am

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#21

Post by legion » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:54 pm

I have never leaked private staff information regarding SPAK or bluewiz's teamspeak, or anyone else, ever. I highly doubt that my fellow administrators would do so as well. the only thing that I personally might have shared is publicly available information regarding rules and administration (everything that is available in the public forums, like here http://zandronum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=6 )
Image

Lollipop
Zandrone
Posts: 1082
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Denmark

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#22

Post by Lollipop » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:03 pm

Metal wrote:
And is your post any different?


This makes no sense. I'm asking him to provide evidence or logs of that happening. Your post doesn't really contribute anything to that.

Memory vs memory, and with my own thoughts on how adminstration is running and how these groups of people are connected with adminstration, I agree with him, this shit is rotten to the core with so few exceptions that it is just stupid.


Aaaand you would like us to do what to improve? You call "Administration is rotten to the core and it's stupid" without any input on how things can be changed. So yeah, how about some insight instead of just calling bullshit.


This is what happens every time someone open their mouth about what they see and you people want to shut their faces.

I meant any different in regards of proving anything, all you said was that you "didn't recall" anything, if I did anything of what he stated I would also be unable to recall it. (I never said I know if anything he said is true, do not try to hang me on that)

What I want you to improve? It is hard to explain by words, and if you actually read the meaning of reach terms words, you should already have extarcted that Torr is the person you should all try to be, not hiding anything and don't say anything unless he got something to back it up, not just saying "I don't recall it".

BTW, There are a few people who are exceptions, just like my post stated, and I never put any names, so don't try to hang me on that either.
I do not see someone such as Legion give secret information out, but I could of course be wrong as I HAVE NO PROF THAT HE HAVEN'T.
Spoiler: Modding Qualifications (Open)
ACS: I like to create complex systems.
DECORATE: Bit boring, unless it gets complex.
Maps: I only map for testing ACS.
GFX: Not enough time or experience.

If you need help, advice or similar, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
Spoiler: My Current Projects (Open)
> AOW branch (Paused because others do the same)
> ACS DOM - An ACS based domination gamemode. (I'm too lazy to get this done, but feel free to bug me about it.)
> Various undeveloped ideas.
Combinebobnt wrote:i can see the forum league is taking off much better than the ctf ones

User avatar
Reach Term
Forum Regular
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:45 pm

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#23

Post by Reach Term » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:32 pm

Metal wrote:
I am not happy towards Cyber, Metal and Legion for leaking information to SPAK's people while at the same time Raz might be doing the same with Blue's people.


That's a pretty big accusation, do you have anything to back this up? Or is it just another rumor? Because I don't recall this at all.

Another thing that has spring into mind is lack of professionalism and again, absolute accountability when it comes to social engineering. I remember not too long ago during my peak time in this community was when Metal broke the very same rule she banned mobius(and trust me, when it comes to that point of history; it's like having an elephant’s memory. ) So Metal, I am not looking for an apology but merely stating the fact that you're eating your own irony when you posted a personal image of myself(which I didn't approved) and me with a out of context quote back in 2009.


I don't recall this either.

Your whole post just sounds like a fart in a wind storm without any actual evidence to back up your claims, imo.


Oh sure, let me pull out logs from 2009.... You actually thought that I would actually have logs 4 years ago? I could bullshit anything related to you but this, this actually happen doing the high point of my spasticism trolling.(Which you probably though that posting those private links would deter me from continouing attacking the community.)

As for leaking of spak and the proof; you should've read this part a little more clearly:

Now I'm having a hard time remembering all of what happen in vast details simply because I long became apathetic that there was no point to remember all the moderation-spak relationship because a)I try to white-wash everything to prove my respect for someone and b)because I thought it wasn't needed. However, I realise that I should'nt done that seeing how I was pissed in the mouth for all my respect I had for them.


I was speaking to this about this to someone else and he kinda agreed that leaking admin information regards of person political gain(such as, softening up their friend's ban, increasing someone else's ban that they don't like, and leaking potential information on people that they don't like.) Whether you like it or not, I can clearly recall this a few times.
Last edited by Reach Term on Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Metal
Forum Regular
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:18 am
Location: Canada

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#24

Post by Metal » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:32 pm

Lollipop wrote:
Metal wrote:
And is your post any different?


This makes no sense. I'm asking him to provide evidence or logs of that happening. Your post doesn't really contribute anything to that.

Memory vs memory, and with my own thoughts on how adminstration is running and how these groups of people are connected with adminstration, I agree with him, this shit is rotten to the core with so few exceptions that it is just stupid.


Aaaand you would like us to do what to improve? You call "Administration is rotten to the core and it's stupid" without any input on how things can be changed. So yeah, how about some insight instead of just calling bullshit.


This is what happens every time someone open their mouth about what they see and you people want to shut their faces.

I meant any different in regards of proving anything, all you said was that you "didn't recall" anything, if I did anything of what he stated I would also be unable to recall it. (I never said I know if anything he said is true, do not try to hang me on that)

What I want you to improve? It is hard to explain by words, and if you actually read the meaning of reach terms words, you should already have extarcted that Torr is the person you should all try to be, not hiding anything and don't say anything unless he got something to back it up, not just saying "I don't recall it".

BTW, There are a few people who are exceptions, just like my post stated, and I never put any names, so don't try to hang me on that either.
I do not see someone such as Legion give secret information out, but I could of course be wrong as I HAVE NO PROF THAT HE HAVEN'T.


Arguing back and forth with you is pretty redundant since you're still not providing any sort of proof that the staff has been leaking information. I'd like to ask that you not spread false claims that you cannot back up as it creates unwanted drama.

This is what happens every time someone open their mouth about what they see and you people want to shut their faces.


I don't see anywhere in my post where it says to shut your face. The whole point of this thread is to provide the staff with opinions and suggestions to improve the way things work around here. So far it feels like you've come off as rude and arrogant about the whole situation and no one is going to listen if you're not going to be suggestive with your posts instead of coming off as aggressive.
<EazyDI>harrased me
<EazyDI>and called me a dinner
<EazyDI>n*****
<EazyDI>lmao not dinner

User avatar
Ænima
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:12 pm
Location: Shpongleland

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#25

Post by Ænima » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:47 pm

Lollipop wrote:and with my own thoughts on how adminstration is running and how these groups of people are connected with adminstration, I agree with him, this shit is rotten to the core with so few exceptions that it is just stupid.


... And how long have you been here?
Image ­ ­
­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­
Doom64: Unabsolved: Doom64 and Diablo2 had a baby


ZandroSkins
: a pack made by our community
Squad Radio: a WASD-powered chat menu, add your own sounds
AeniPuffs: neat blood and puff effects

User avatar
Ivan
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:38 pm
Location: Omnipresent

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#26

Post by Ivan » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:08 pm

Reach Term wrote:Where do I even begin on such a topic? Well, throughout my time being in this community through both good and bad reasoning; I tend to pick up on a few things. However before I go on to the real slice of the post, I just want to say that I am not speaking for anyone. No one has put words in my mouth nor influence me to say otherwise. I am not a member nor am representing parties/groups/clans/cliques like PRO and SPAK, A3 and Blue's TS; I don't even any any connections with Unidoom, R and other smaller factions in this community that likes to warrant itself in the community. I am my own man, a man of his own words that isn't subjective to someone else respect or influence. Now you may be asking what is this leading up too? What do I, a person who is practically hated by all has to say? Well, my problem is that there's a certain trend or two that has always happen throughout this community ever since I enter this community back in 2009. One is the lack on conflict of interest, especially with third party groups that isn't official with the port; for example SPAK ts and Blue ts comes to mind. Before anyone of these two groups would go on and say they don't bother anyone in the moderation team with internal information; let me say as someone who has been hanging around these TS servers(MORE SO with spak) is that, they have been talking with anyone who was connected to the moderation team with know what other people are feeling, how this person is gonna get banned before the public gets to learn about it and of course one of my favourite things; favouritism. How something that they don't like is doing it ever so often.

Now this community isn't surprised when it comes to drama being from the centre of one of these third-party groups, as one of the threads that sparked me to write this was blue's people jumping the gun over Mobius' trolling antics that went too fair. In all fairness, for a guy who has been always been attacked and provoked by mobius from time to time, I am not surprised and actually glad that this person got what he deserves for taking things too far. However I am not happy that one of the people on the gun was Water, seeing how he was defending Mobius for something that is clearly something he shouldn’t done. However, I am not happy towards Cyber, Metal and Legion for leaking information to SPAK's people while at the same time Raz might be doing the same with Blue's people. For a port that respects transparency and accountability, it fails on resolving and respecting conflict of interest common grounds. In fact, the one person that has total understanding of this clause is Torr Sahamo, as he's never seen talking to these third-party groups or have any hard connection with them. I think this needs to stop, I also think there's need to be a community picked internal affairs when it comes to moderation team's accountability.

When I was hanging around in SPAK ts, most of the time whenever they will ask someone who was in the moderation team, would asked them to warn off heat or tell them what the other admins are thinking, etc and etc without any care of professionalism, all for the purpose of social gain. This has happen numerous of times in various dramas throughout the past year and half since I came back and I still think it's gonna stay the same if we don't do something about this. I can't say this for blue's ts but I wouldn't be surprised if Raz has been hanging out there. Now I'm having a hard time remembering all of what happen in vast details simply because I long became apathetic that there was no point to remember all the moderation-spak relationship because a)I try to white-wash everything to prove my respect for someone and b)because I thought it wasn't needed. However, I realise that I should'nt done that seeing how I was pissed in the mouth for all my respect I had for them.

Another thing that has spring into mind is lack of professionalism and again, absolute accountability when it comes to social engineering. I remember not too long ago during my peak time in this community was when Metal broke the very same rule she banned mobius(and trust me, when it comes to that point of history; it's like having an elephant’s memory. ) So Metal, I am not looking for an apology but merely stating the fact that you're eating your own irony when you posted a personal image of myself(which I didn't approved) and me with a out of context quote back in 2009.

Speaking about the past, what about Warton's third-party group called skullrant and asked me to “hack,” and I use that term loosely, Twister's clan forums and hijack it. It amazes me that you had moderation status during that time you told me and gave me the passwords to Twister's forum. Honestly, why would you risk your image for something that nobody gave a crap? You must've had great balls to ask someone who was quite literally hated by everyone and was recently banned permanently for for breaking every rule but cheating?(There's an actual irony)

It's funny how moderation has changed but only through appearance as I heard stories that “this person” was going to get permanently banned for doing something fraction of the punishment. Also just before I just finish, I just want to talk about Cyber. Oh Cyber, you're an literal definition of “apathetic person in power,” again, it amazes me that you allowed guys like me and Kal Foxis roam around, aliased without any action from the other moderation team. I actually wonder how many people you allow to roam around whether they cheated or not via aliases and proxies?

Talk about your bunches of proud, upstanding administrations.

This moderation needs to be dissolved and reformed into new people, people who doesn't have connections to cater to these special groups, but that's me and that's pretty much what this rant is about.

Also, I'm probably going to get a ton of flack, but fuck it, it hasn't stop me before.


I find this very believable, and not very surprising to be honest, given the nature of the people mentioned here. Maybe only Legion could be the exception, but who knows.

Also to clarify one thing, Razgriz was like never on TS so he really can't share much, he's not even on IRC!
=== RAGNAROK DM ON ... uh... dead forever? ===
=== ALWAYS BET ON ... uh... dead forever? ===
=== Who wanta sum wang? ===
=== Death and Decay - A new Monster/Weapon replacer ===

User avatar
Luke
Banned
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:32 pm
Contact:
Banned: Permanently

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#27

Post by Luke » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:29 pm

Metal wrote:Your whole post just sounds like a fart in a wind storm without any actual evidence to back up your claims, imo.

This is not the way a Lead Administrator should talk. Definitely.

In my opinion, of course.

Metal wrote:Aaaand you would like us to do what to improve? You call "Administration is rotten to the core and it's stupid" without any input on how things can be changed. So yeah, how about some insight instead of just calling ********.


So sorry to read this Metal, this is another example of how an admin shouldn't talk. I know that you're all humans and so you can get fiery as everyone else but that is it. Lollipop might have been prickling but that's no excuse to become vulgar. (and it doesn't matter if we're all adults, or should be since Doom is rated mature, there are people who can still get disgusted and negatively impressed by the vulgarity, especially if it comes from Staff member)

Lollipop wrote:[...] Torr is the person you should all try to be, not hiding anything and don't say anything unless he got something to back it up [...]

I totally agree with Lollipop.

Sorry Metal, since the thread's nature I had to say it out loud.

User avatar
Reach Term
Forum Regular
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:45 pm

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#28

Post by Reach Term » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:34 pm

Ivan wrote:Also to clarify one thing, Razgriz was like never on TS so he really can't share much , he's not even on IRC!


That sounds like an implication that he HAD at one point or another shared information to you guys with the means of personal political gain regardless if he's hasn't been on most of the time.
Last edited by Reach Term on Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ruin
Forum Regular
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:43 pm
Location: The auto-parts store
Contact:

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#29

Post by Ruin » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:42 pm

I feel as though I need to defend myself here; as it seems you guys want our heads on pikes.

I don't recall catering to anyone. Nor have I leaked anything to anyone. I've tried to remain as un-biased as humanly possible. Do I join the spak ts from time to time? Yes. Do I think I have a strong affiliation with spak? No. Not really. Pro is usually found there, thus that's where I go. I do like to talk to my friends from time to time. I've already stated that if people want me to step down, that's fine. Such is the will of the community. I do not, however, much care for being accused of things that I haven't done. I know everyone is taking the "no names being mentioned" stance, but I also see sweeping generalizations about how the entire staff is corrupt. I felt I needed to say my piece. And to be blunt, I'm growing very tired of the baseless accusations. Alluding to some sort of staff conspiracy that simply doesn't exist.

As far as I'm aware, cheater, you rode out your ban and have been an ok guy since then. I recall being in the TS server and having a good time while you were there.

As far as Kal is concerned, if you have info regarding aliases, proxies, suspected players. I kinda need to know. I don't have spidey senses to tell me if someone is ban evading. Cooperation with server hosts and players who may know when someone is evading is extremely helpful in this situation. This is why #staff exists, even #zastaff.
Last edited by Ruin on Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Secondly, <PRO> is utter shit, and they're only "known" because almost all of them are also staff." - /vr/

User avatar
Ivan
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:38 pm
Location: Omnipresent

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#30

Post by Ivan » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:06 pm

Reach Term wrote:
Ivan wrote:Also to clarify one thing, Razgriz was like never on TS so he really can't share much , he's not even on IRC!


That sounds like an implication that he HAD at one point or another shared information to you guys with the means of personal political gain regardless if he's hasn't been on most of the time.


Nah, he would seldom talk about staff and what they did, and when he did it would be vague so we never really knew much to be honest.
=== RAGNAROK DM ON ... uh... dead forever? ===
=== ALWAYS BET ON ... uh... dead forever? ===
=== Who wanta sum wang? ===
=== Death and Decay - A new Monster/Weapon replacer ===

User avatar
Ru5tK1ng
Posts a lot
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 pm

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#31

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:39 pm

Reach Term wrote:
Ivan wrote:Also to clarify one thing, Razgriz was like never on TS so he really can't share much , he's not even on IRC!


That sounds like an implication that he HAD at one point or another shared information to you guys with the means of personal political gain regardless if he's hasn't been on most of the time.

Unlike you, my brother would always know how to keep hush especially concerning the staff. If someone were to ask him what was going on in the staff channel he would reply with board statements like:' we're just having a meeting' or 'we're discussing bans'. I think it's pretty hilarious how you're trying pass off something you know nothing about as fact. Perhaps you should take another break from the community for another 10 years. Maybe then the things you say will have some validity or merit.

User avatar
infurnus
Forum Staff
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 pm
Location: Dusty SEGA Tapes
Clan: Unidoom
Clan Tag: UD
Contact:

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#32

Post by infurnus » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:27 am

Lollipop wrote:Memory vs memory, and with my own thoughts on how adminstration is running and how these groups of people are connected with adminstration, I agree with him, this shit is rotten to the core with so few exceptions that it is just stupid.

Lollipop wrote:This is what happens every time someone open their mouth about what they see and you people want to shut their faces.

I meant any different in regards of proving anything, all you said was that you "didn't recall" anything, if I did anything of what he stated I would also be unable to recall it. (I never said I know if anything he said is true, do not try to hang me on that)

What I want you to improve? It is hard to explain by words, and if you actually read the meaning of reach terms words, you should already have extarcted that Torr is the person you should all try to be, not hiding anything and don't say anything unless he got something to back it up, not just saying "I don't recall it".


The burden of proof is on those making the accusations.
They are supposed to prove that what they are saying is correct, not accuse us of whatever they want and then proclaim that we have to prove them wrong. Logic doesn't work that way.



EDIT:
Reach Term wrote:Oh sure, let me pull out logs from 2009.... You actually thought that I would actually have logs 4 years ago?

So.. you don't have any issues with Zandronum in specific? Your issues seem to be with the SkullTag era staff actions/procedures.
Personally I have made my best efforts to standardize how the Zandronum staff should handle things, encouraging transparency and public apologies and more.
Last edited by infurnus on Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Cyber'
Forum Regular
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:14 am
Location: Colorado
Clan: The Professionals
Clan Tag: <PRO>
Contact:

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#33

Post by Cyber' » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:49 am

Alright, I had more time to read everything, so I'm gonna try to make this as short and simple as possible.c

Regarding Mr Cheater's first paragraph about "Favoritism", I'd like to clarify that this is not the case, especially when it comes to staff related issues. As a player, I go into spak's TS only when I'm either playing in a scrimmage, or if I'm hanging out with my clanmates and chatting about reality, ingame, or DrawMyThing. My clanmates do the same, and the only "staff" that go on there on a daily basis, for the exact same reasoning above, are Legion, Ruin, and myself. Metal going on TS is once in a blue moon and it's to get away from doom, or a random survival server group with the clanmates.
There has been one case where I told Edd that he was going to get in trouble because he was thinking of posting something stupid. He was promptly warned for his post. There was also the issue that had people running around with avatars of Mobius' face in their avatars / signatures. Now, if I was told this right away, I would bring it up with staff and we would resolve the issue earlier, but because nobody did, it went unnoticed. I was also unaware that it was him. As of zandronum, I don't cater to players when it comes to staff related issues such as bans. I'll investigate if the situation is brought to my attention, so don't be afraid to talk with me regarding them.

The second paragraph of his regarding leaking information to a third party group can be explained in the above paragraph of mine. Basically, the only three of staff that I'm aware of who go into spak's TS are the three of us, and again, it's almost always to scrim in the case of Ruin and myself.

The third paragraph of his regarding "warning" people to lay off heat...I'm not sure what to think of this one. I may be reading it wrong, but to me it reads that staff shouldn't tell people that they need to calm down and to stop doing stupid things. I'm going to say that I would prefer to tell people that if you do something like post a spam "hi" post, that you should most likely remove it, or move it to forum games. As for "social gain", I'm again not sure what to think about this one. As a person, I like to socialize yes, it helps reduce drama if everyone knows each other and people aren't going at one another's throats. Telling a person to "calm down" for "social gain" in my opinion doesn't make sense, because to me it feels more like I'm just giving the person a warning.

The fourth paragraph of his regarding social engineering, I'm not sure about this one either. However I can state (and prefer) that any incidents that happened in Skulltag should not be brought into current Zandronum, simply because the rules were completely different in Skulltag era, and so were the people. For most of us, zandronum is a fresh start and a chance to help make this place better over time, which is what we're here in this thread for.

The same goes for the fifth paragraph regarding skullrant, as again, I would prefer not to bring Skulltag issues into Zandronum, regardless of previous ST staff members. The current problems that I see, that people have problems with, are related to how bans and warnings are given. The problem with "leaking information", I've clarified that issue above, and I have others to verify this as well if you wish to question it.

The sixth paragraph regarding my "apathy", I care a lot about the port, and the players. It's the reason I go around talking to people on IRC and why I am here currently trying to resolve the rule set so we can get a good balance of chaos and order. It's the reason I go around helping advertise FNF, and public servers alongside other players. I may not post on the forum a lot, but when I'm not at work and when I'm not around others in reality, I'm available to talk. This can be vouched on as well.

Regarding you guys and "roaming free", I'll repeat my first post and state that I do not let people roam free. If it's brought to my attention, I'll investigate the player and name in question, and I'll take action on it. If they had a ban that expired, then there's no reason for me not to do anything. The same goes the other way. If he's an evader, I'll make sure that action is taken. In your case, you would evade regardless of what we did. In either case, you no longer have a ban on the list, so there is no need to track you.
If you have information regarding Kalfoxis or any other evader, I would prefer to be told of it, or at least another staff member who is available.

Regarding any other issues, if you have any more, I can discuss them and we can find out what problems are here. However if a problem doesn't exist, such as the whole "spak leaking" controversy that went on in your first few paragraphs, I will defend it like I am doing in the above paragraph of mine. I prefer to make sure that things are clarified between all parties.

A side note: I try not to say anything negative when I post, and I would prefer if other staff members would follow this as well.
Projects completed : PROCTF, Jump Maze, Tricky ST. RJX.
Progress : RJX2 - Standby... | RJX remastered : Final Detail - 100% Complete! (wad on BE)
Newest Project : Jump Maze 1.5 (X2, JMX): Alpha (layout, minor detail) - Layouts complete: 16. Halfway mark reached!

I always love these calm moments before the storm...

User avatar
infurnus
Forum Staff
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 pm
Location: Dusty SEGA Tapes
Clan: Unidoom
Clan Tag: UD
Contact:

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#34

Post by infurnus » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:07 am

Luke wrote:
Metal wrote:Your whole post just sounds like a fart in a wind storm without any actual evidence to back up your claims, imo.

This is not the way a Lead Administrator should talk. Definitely.

In my opinion, of course.

Metal wrote:Aaaand you would like us to do what to improve? You call "Administration is rotten to the core and it's stupid" without any input on how things can be changed. So yeah, how about some insight instead of just calling ********.


So sorry to read this Metal, this is another example of how an admin shouldn't talk. I know that you're all humans and so you can get fiery as everyone else but that is it. Lollipop might have been prickling but that's no excuse to become vulgar. (and it doesn't matter if we're all adults, or should be since Doom is rated mature, there are people who can still get disgusted and negatively impressed by the vulgarity, especially if it comes from Staff member)

Lollipop wrote:[...] Torr is the person you should all try to be, not hiding anything and don't say anything unless he got something to back it up [...]

I totally agree with Lollipop.

Sorry Metal, since the thread's nature I had to say it out loud.

So "fart in the wind" and "bullshit" are considered vulgar and rude now? I don't think this discussion is pertinent to staff reforms in general, but with respect to you wanting to improve staff conduct, what suggestions beyond "this is bad and you should be more like this other person who doesn't have to put up with what you do" do you have? I am genuinely curious.

Ænima wrote:
Lollipop wrote:[...]


... And how long have you been here?

Lollipop wrote:
Metal wrote:[...]


This is what happens every time someone open their mouth about what they see and you people want to shut their faces.
[...]
BTW, There are a few people who are exceptions, just like my post stated, and I never put any names, so don't try to hang me on that either.
I do not see someone such as Legion give secret information out, but I could of course be wrong as I HAVE NO PROF THAT HE HAVEN'T.


Usually this is common sense but I think I should clarify: This thread is for discussing staff & rule reforms, as well as allowing people to make suggestions.

Please do not derail this thread and turn it into a "lets all bash and insult eachother", so please avoid personal attacks and talk about what your actual issues, questions, or comments are, instead of bashing other users and staff members alike.

I don't want to see this turn into a big fight and prevent people with on topic comments from being heard or even feeling like posting.
Last edited by infurnus on Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Catastrophe
ZanStuff Reviewer
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:44 am
Clan: Incredible

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#35

Post by Catastrophe » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:27 am

Wtf? When was mr-cheater on my ts?

And yeah, Rangle is pretty vague when it comes to private info. He only logs on like once a week, (sometimes even once every two weeks!)

EDIT: @ruin I'm pretty sure nobody wants you to step down, relax man.
Last edited by Catastrophe on Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Youtube Channel
Projects: Super Demon | Idiotic LMS | ZCC | Cata WeaponZ

Currently hooked on Overwatch and PUBattlegrounds.

Lollipop
Zandrone
Posts: 1082
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Denmark

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#36

Post by Lollipop » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:07 am

@Ænima I forgot really, but just why did you even have to ask that? Not really that important for the topic itself.

@Metal read cybers and infurnus's posts, that is how an admin posts, they make an exact explanation of what they think and why, not just say they forgot. The rest I will ignore as you are obviously trying to make me furious for appearently no reason at all.

@Infurnus I have used no personal attacks or anything else in that regard, nor have I fought logic, I put it upside Down to try and make Metal kill the discussion before it could really start, but that was directly ignored.
What luke posted about the language the admins should use is pretty much that Metal sometimes attack with the posts instead of explain with them, and that post was a personal attack, as in how I read it, as it contained nothing else than "your post is useless, GTFO".

@Ivan you obviously got the most thought here, just a sidenote.

@Luke you and Reach Term are obviously the only ones who actually read my post in the same way I wrote it, looks like other people read it just to find a way to flak me.

@Blue Stealth is the answer, people who are unwanted usually find ways no matter what you do.

Other than that I do agree that this might turn worse, and if it does I will stay out of it, as trying to calm a flame these days is impossible -.-
Spoiler: Modding Qualifications (Open)
ACS: I like to create complex systems.
DECORATE: Bit boring, unless it gets complex.
Maps: I only map for testing ACS.
GFX: Not enough time or experience.

If you need help, advice or similar, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
Spoiler: My Current Projects (Open)
> AOW branch (Paused because others do the same)
> ACS DOM - An ACS based domination gamemode. (I'm too lazy to get this done, but feel free to bug me about it.)
> Various undeveloped ideas.
Combinebobnt wrote:i can see the forum league is taking off much better than the ctf ones

User avatar
Cyber'
Forum Regular
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:14 am
Location: Colorado
Clan: The Professionals
Clan Tag: <PRO>
Contact:

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#37

Post by Cyber' » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:50 am

Lollipop:

To be fair, Metal's post did not contain anything regarding an attack towards you, all she asked was for if you could prove that staff was leaking information since you agreed that we were, which I clarified in my above post.
Her first post simply asked if Mr Cheater could back up his claim regarding leaking information as well. The fact that she "doesn't recall" basically can be re-worded to "who did this, when, and can you prove this?" All she's asking for is some evidence instead of speculation, clarified in my above post.

So now I have to ask you since you believe that "this shit is rotten to the core with so few exceptions that it is just stupid"
If this is the case, what exactly is rotten to the core, what is the problem, and how can we fix it? The reason Metal responded to you the way she did in her next post is basically the same question that I'm asking right here.


In your next post, you stated that you don't recall if any of what mr cheater was true. This is conflicting with your above statement with you agreeing with him. Since I was able to prove the majority of his post wrong, do you still agree with that stance? This is the reason metal was posting the way she was, simply because of being lied about.

I'd also like to talk about this line here:
"Torr is the person you should all try to be, not hiding anything and don't say anything unless he got something to back it up, not just saying "I don't recall it"."
The fact that nothing is being hidden is already taken care of, however the second half could imply that we have to all be mutes until we need to defend ourselves. As I posted earlier, I'm a social person, so this will never ever happen for me. In the case of defending one self, Metal's post was exactly that. She wanted Mr Cheater to show proof. The other possible response she could have given would have been "no this is not true, here's why" but I'd assume your guys' posts would remain the same regardless of her answer.

Her next post just repeats what she's trying to explain, which is "I want proof because I know it's a rumor and it's not true." It has nothing to do with memory loss.

As far as luke's post goes, I'm going to just say that infurnus' post has what I would respond with as well. There is nothing vulgar regarding her post as she simply wants for Mr Cheater to prove his claim as far as the Zandronum administration goes.
Projects completed : PROCTF, Jump Maze, Tricky ST. RJX.
Progress : RJX2 - Standby... | RJX remastered : Final Detail - 100% Complete! (wad on BE)
Newest Project : Jump Maze 1.5 (X2, JMX): Alpha (layout, minor detail) - Layouts complete: 16. Halfway mark reached!

I always love these calm moments before the storm...

Lollipop
Zandrone
Posts: 1082
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Denmark

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#38

Post by Lollipop » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:55 am

I see your points cyber, though I do not agree eholeheartedly with the way you turned my post to direct and hard stupidity instead of arguments.
Other than that I just suppose this get split and trashed, just to prevent shit from happening.
Spoiler: Modding Qualifications (Open)
ACS: I like to create complex systems.
DECORATE: Bit boring, unless it gets complex.
Maps: I only map for testing ACS.
GFX: Not enough time or experience.

If you need help, advice or similar, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
Spoiler: My Current Projects (Open)
> AOW branch (Paused because others do the same)
> ACS DOM - An ACS based domination gamemode. (I'm too lazy to get this done, but feel free to bug me about it.)
> Various undeveloped ideas.
Combinebobnt wrote:i can see the forum league is taking off much better than the ctf ones

User avatar
Cyber'
Forum Regular
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:14 am
Location: Colorado
Clan: The Professionals
Clan Tag: <PRO>
Contact:

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#39

Post by Cyber' » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:50 pm

I'm lost when you mention hard stupidity. Not sure what it means in this situation. But I would like to ask if you do feel that the administration is corrupt, if you can help give me an idea on what the problem is, that hasn't been answered in my first post, so I can look into it and get an idea of what needs fixing.

Sorry if this post comes out harsh or weird. I'm typing on my phone so it may come out very vague.
Projects completed : PROCTF, Jump Maze, Tricky ST. RJX.
Progress : RJX2 - Standby... | RJX remastered : Final Detail - 100% Complete! (wad on BE)
Newest Project : Jump Maze 1.5 (X2, JMX): Alpha (layout, minor detail) - Layouts complete: 16. Halfway mark reached!

I always love these calm moments before the storm...

Lollipop
Zandrone
Posts: 1082
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Denmark

RE: Staff & rules reform thread

#40

Post by Lollipop » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:16 pm

Your post didn't come out harsh or wierd at all.
I think I know what is causing the troubble when I say it look corrupt, when I look at it as corrupt, I ust an outside view, not a very nice view at all.
Explaining it would be plain impossible as it relies mostly on how I see the way most admins post sometimes that lead to this conclusion, such as Metal posts.
Spoiler: Modding Qualifications (Open)
ACS: I like to create complex systems.
DECORATE: Bit boring, unless it gets complex.
Maps: I only map for testing ACS.
GFX: Not enough time or experience.

If you need help, advice or similar, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
Spoiler: My Current Projects (Open)
> AOW branch (Paused because others do the same)
> ACS DOM - An ACS based domination gamemode. (I'm too lazy to get this done, but feel free to bug me about it.)
> Various undeveloped ideas.
Combinebobnt wrote:i can see the forum league is taking off much better than the ctf ones

Post Reply