New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

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New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#1

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:07 am

Moving forward to address the current problems of the server, these are some additional guidelines that will be followed as well as the ones outlined in this topic: https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2246

Don't alias:
Do not alias. This doesn’t necessarily mean that not using your “real” name is an automatic kick, but players on the server should be able to know who they’re picking and/or are playing against. If there is any confusion at all, you should be expected to answer who you are without stringing them along. Failure to reveal one's identity at the request of a designated Captain during the picking round or by the request of an admin at anytime will result in a 5-day ban. If an aliased player 'happens' to go afk, the player should be automatically disqualified from picking and be promptly callvote kicked from the server.

Don't refuse to join:
Eligible players who are selected first by a captain during his turn during the picking process are bound to that captain and must join the team. If you do not like your captain, too bad. You should have starred or volunteered to be a captain. Anyone who refuses to join is subject to a ban.

Player Waiting:
A player who temporarily leaves during picking or during map selection can only be removed via callvote by his captain or a team member voting at the request of the captain. A spectator is not allowed to back seat mod. If both teams are ready to go, they only have to wait around 2 minutes max before the player is removed via forcespec vote or kick vote. Either a spectator fills in or a player from the opposing team spectates thus allowing the match to start. A player who leaves must make it clear they are leaving and will quickly return. A player who repeatedly leaves and holds up games may be subject to a short term ban in order to give them plenty of time to sort out their life.

Spontaneous mid-game leaving:
You must give prior notice during the picking round to the server if you legitimately have to leave. 'My house is burning down I might have to leave' is much preferable than simply ragequitting. No notice = ban. Players only get 3 notices to use per year. Ban lengths and punishments will be determined on a case by case basis.

Throwing Games:
One month ban. If you are caught throwing a game, you're gone. No excuses.

Mid-Picking:
Captains who mid-pick will get a 1 week ban as well as the mid-picked player or players in question. If you know you are not eligible to be selected, do not go along with it. Captains may not agree to both midpick because it is not fair to the people waiting to play. In such instances both captains will be banned.


If there are not any admins present in the server when an infraction occurs, players are encouraged to either join the #funcrusher channel to report an incident or PM any of the admins. If you do not report anything, we cannot look into it.

Repeat offenses will lead to longer bans and eventually, permanent removal. Offenders will be kept track of so that their history follows them. As of today players' offenses in the past will be wiped clean. From this point forward is where things will start being tracked. Perma banned individuals are still banned. This topic is subject to additions and revisions. Ignorance is no excuse. Being unaware of changes to the rules is not an acceptable reason to break them. Therefore, check this topic frequently or simply use common sense.

Have an ice day.
Last edited by Ru5tK1ng on Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:37 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#2

Post by Mobius » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:17 am

The request should just be by the player as well. There's no reason for anyone to alias in priv where someone is wondering "who is gaycocksucker?" and no one answers. These rules were enforced around the time I started and ended. Failure results in a kick and then ban for repeated offenses.
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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#3

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:19 am

That's implied by the line 'and/or are playing against'.

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#4

Post by Mobius » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:20 am

Ru5tK1ng wrote:That's implied by the line 'and/or are playing against'.
Oh ok I might have misread it.
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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#5

Post by Zakken » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:00 am

There is one thing I wanted to see addressed in these policies, and that is the "3's or 4's" debate that has caused heated arguments every now and then. What should the default setting be if captains can't agree on how many players to pick?
Ru5tK1ng wrote:Mid-Picking:
Captains who mid-pick will get a 1 week ban as well as the mid-picked player or players in question. If you know you are not eligible to be selected, do not go along with it. Captains may not agree to both midpick because it is not fair to the people waiting to play. In such instances both captains will be banned.
What if, say, there are 6 people in a server, and then 2+ more players get in during the picking process; would it be fair game to midpick those players in this case, if both captains are fine with it?
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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#6

Post by Decay » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:36 am

Seems pretty simple, they joined midpick so they are out. Otherwise a captain recall could be remade and 4s called.

Otherwise captains will pick their friends who just joined to spite the people they just don't want to play with.

Re: 3s
Private CTF, I was told since I arrived, was "training" for competition, which is 3v3. The maps in the pack are best suited for, 3v3. 3s should be the default unless otherwise agreed upon. The only problem with 3s is when people literally pick the same teams over and over without letting the people who have been waiting multiple rounds play. Although its not a rule, it is a courteous to let people play who have not yet play but have been waiting, maybe you should try getting people to do that instead of playing 4s to get people in.

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#7

Post by ZZYZX » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:49 pm

Decay wrote:Otherwise captains will pick their friends who just joined to spite the people they just don't want to play with.
Alternatively, if I'm 30 seconds late to the game and there are 3v3 teams and two players spectating, I can't be picked for 4v4 and have to wait 10 minutes until spectator list is more populated so I'm sitting anyway :D
That's like I'm not benched enough LOL

Would be better if you added a time limit for picking and rule against not joining if you were picked. Because second-last time I tried to play priv people were just talking about COMPLETELY unrelated things for 5 minutes after cap call like Doom is some shitty chat software and completely ignored both captains. Which is, actually, pretty typical american priv.

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#8

Post by Ivan » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:03 pm

ZZYZX wrote:
Decay wrote:Otherwise captains will pick their friends who just joined to spite the people they just don't want to play with.
Alternatively, if I'm 30 seconds late to the game and there are 3v3 teams and two players spectating, I can't be picked for 4v4 and have to wait 10 minutes until spectator list is more populated so I'm sitting anyway :D
That's like I'm not benched enough LOL

Would be better if you added a time limit for picking and rule against not joining if you were picked. Because second-last time I tried to play priv people were just talking about COMPLETELY unrelated things for 5 minutes after cap call like Doom is some shitty chat software and completely ignored both captains. Which is, actually, pretty typical american priv.
All of this sounds like we should finish the CTFElo project...
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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#9

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:16 pm

If 2 players join during player picking, they cannot be selected until all the eligible individuals who were already there are picked first. Example: Players 1-4 are already on their team, players 7 & 8 cannot chosen before 5 and 6. If both teams are ready to go for a 3v3, then captains can decide to bump up to 4v4 if extra players drop in. But it would be preferable that the teams just rolled with 3v3 if players start pouring in. The idea is to get the game going and waste no time fighting over new guys that came in.

As for players taking too long to get games start, it’s been a problem in both scenes for quite some time now. I don’t see it as the administrator’s job to come in the server every 10 minutes to say: come on guys, let’s move it! This isn’t elementary school despite what the priv environment suggests. Any player that refuses to join after being selected IS on the thin line of being banned for short term. However, if teams are ready but people would rather talk than pick a map, then your only choice is to stop playing low-quality priv.

I'll add the refusal to join as part of the policies as I have been told some players like to not join the team they've been selected by.

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#10

Post by Lollipop » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:46 pm

As a helping measure to avoid implicit autobenching of players, perhaps the number of rounds a player hasn't been picked could somehow be counted using ACS? I'm thinkinga global array with an integer per player and a script that recognizes when players engage in the game, perhaps with a enter script or something that only acts in the map isn't the lobby. The list could be used to show which players have waited the most rounds.
Of course it is still up to the captains to pick the players they want, but it would make it easier to keep an overview of who have been waiting for a long time for those who give a shit.

Maybe it would be useful, maybe not. IDK, just throwing it out there.

And BTW the common sense part of the ruleset is the best part.

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#11

Post by Mobius » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:49 pm

ZZYZX wrote:
Decay wrote:Otherwise captains will pick their friends who just joined to spite the people they just don't want to play with.
Alternatively, if I'm 30 seconds late to the game and there are 3v3 teams and two players spectating, I can't be picked for 4v4 and have to wait 10 minutes until spectator list is more populated so I'm sitting anyway :D
That's like I'm not benched enough LOL

Would be better if you added a time limit for picking and rule against not joining if you were picked. Because second-last time I tried to play priv people were just talking about COMPLETELY unrelated things for 5 minutes after cap call like Doom is some shitty chat software and completely ignored both captains. Which is, actually, pretty typical american priv.
Euros occupying American priv turns American priv into euro priv which is known for its chattery; otherwise, don't come late to priv or wait your turn. 3s or 4s. It's the same argument.

If you come in last and there's 4 players in a team then do you want mid-pick 5s because you didn't come in on time?
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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#12

Post by Zakken » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:56 pm

Decay wrote:Re: 3s
Private CTF, I was told since I arrived, was "training" for competition, which is 3v3. The maps in the pack are best suited for, 3v3. 3s should be the default unless otherwise agreed upon. The only problem with 3s is when people literally pick the same teams over and over without letting the people who have been waiting multiple rounds play. Although its not a rule, it is a courteous to let people play who have not yet play but have been waiting, maybe you should try getting people to do that instead of playing 4s to get people in.
Sounds reasonable. I'd like to hear what other players feel about 3's vs 4's as well.
ZZYZX wrote:Alternatively, if I'm 30 seconds late to the game and there are 3v3 teams and two players spectating, I can't be picked for 4v4 and have to wait 10 minutes until spectator list is more populated so I'm sitting anyway :D
That's like I'm not benched enough LOL
I don't see a problem with having to wait 10 minutes for the next round. That's not a long wait, especially if you get to play next time.

The issue with captains creating the same teams all the time is definitely something that needs to be mitigated long-term, and I don't think the goodwill of a few captains to pick more diverse players is sustainable enough. Hopefully this would be something that CTFElo takes care of, but perhaps there might be other solutions too.
ZZYZX wrote:Would be better if you added a time limit for picking and rule against not joining if you were picked. Because second-last time I tried to play priv people were just talking about COMPLETELY unrelated things for 5 minutes after cap call like Doom is some shitty chat software and completely ignored both captains. Which is, actually, pretty typical american priv.
As far as people taking forever to pick players/maps, I find that nudging them to do their job generally does the trick. If they are still stalling priv in spite of demands to do what you're supposed to do, then punishments by the admins should definitely be in order.
Lollipop wrote:As a helping measure to avoid implicit autobenching of players, perhaps the number of rounds a player hasn't been picked could somehow be counted using ACS? I'm thinkinga global array with an integer per player and a script that recognizes when players engage in the game, perhaps with a enter script or something that only acts in the map isn't the lobby. The list could be used to show which players have waited the most rounds.
Of course it is still up to the captains to pick the players they want, but it would make it easier to keep an overview of who have been waiting for a long time for those who give a shit.

Maybe it would be useful, maybe not. IDK, just throwing it out there.
I was thinking of something to that effect as well. A simple ACS project like that would prove sufficient for the time being, at least. I think the tricky part would be how to automatically let ACS know that the current game taking place is a real one.
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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#13

Post by Combinebobnt » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:03 pm

acs project? ok have fun making it.




waterelo for 3.0 ? database?

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#14

Post by ZZYZX » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:46 pm

Lollipop wrote:As a helping measure to avoid implicit autobenching of players, perhaps the number of rounds a player hasn't been picked could somehow be counted using ACS? I'm thinkinga global array with an integer per player and a script that recognizes when players engage in the game, perhaps with a enter script or something that only acts in the map isn't the lobby. The list could be used to show which players have waited the most rounds.
Of course it is still up to the captains to pick the players they want, but it would make it easier to keep an overview of who have been waiting for a long time for those who give a shit.
Global array doesn't persist between "callvote map" votes. It can be stored in a cvar along with serverside timestamp to avoid too old player lists, and I wanted to implement this in ctfcap2 something blablabla pk3, but never had time nor desire to do that.
Zakken wrote:I don't see a problem with having to wait 10 minutes for the next round. That's not a long wait, especially if you get to play next time.
I don't. Because generally during these 10 minutes more people see the full priv server and come to spec.

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Re: New policies regarding PrivateCTF (Effective 3.0 release)

#15

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:31 am

Player Waiting:
A player who temporarily leaves during picking or during map selection can only be removed via callvote by his captain or a team member voting at the request of the captain. A spectator is not allowed to back seat mod. If both teams are ready to go, they only have to wait around 2 minutes max before the player is removed via forcespec vote or kick vote. Either a spectator fills in or a player from the opposing team spectates thus allowing the match to start. A player who leaves must make it clear they are leaving and will quickly return. A player who repeatedly leaves and holds up games may be subject to a short term ban in order to give them plenty of time to sort out their life.

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