State of the Union address (what really went wrong with competition)

[Ivan]

Its worth noting that if a little smack talk gets to you, you probably should stick to gvh or something. The sometimes rough world of competition may not be for you.

Only sometimes? That's an understatement.

[Catastrophe]

I have no problem with people talking, but I think that being slappe´d all the time with incorrectable padt mistakes is just not the way to go, specially as it wont attract newbies either.

There is smack talk in all other games with competition and newbies will still play. I think you're a wimp.

Going competitive right now is 10000000000X better than it was back in 2010

[Slyfox]

I have no problem with people talking, but I think that being slappe´d all the time with incorrectable padt mistakes is just not the way to go, specially as it wont attract newbies either.

There is smack talk in all other games with competition and newbies will still play. I think you're a wimp.

Going competitive right now is 10000000000X better than it was back in 2010

^ This. I'd feel sorry for you if you went to play league, dota 2 or smite, even quake live sometimes;
If you don't like smack talk, improve yourself to beat them. Then you are given the holy opportunity to talk shit to whoever was shit-talking you in the past
Edit: This isn't just me saying so, because I've done it in the past. I went from being in Ilc thinking "oh man R and Pro are unstoppable" to A3 thinking "yo lets stomp some of the high tier clans today" [not saying we were always successful, but we did do so a bunch of times]

[Shane]

I have no problem with people talking, but I think that being slappe´d all the time with incorrectable padt mistakes is just not the way to go, specially as it wont attract newbies either.

But at the same time would bring in players who wanted a doom port to have some serious competition.

I also want to petition an idea my brother shared with me, and thats a queue system for dueling gamemodes. I mean if I can be honest here, who wants to get a duel started but have to wait for one to fill up or join an empty one and pray you don't get some idiot or join with an afk player? It works like this, basically you just click on a little icon and it brings up a window that begins the queue, and whatever other player starts up a queue it finds the lowest ping server and flings both players in. Random, sufficient and more populated duel servers.

Problem being of course, people will need to run the same server browser and there also needs to be a nickname login system but at this point wouldn't hurt if we ever want to start up an ELO or stats tracking system.

However combine the ranks and stats, go for a Starcraft 2 ranking system. Where it keeps track of frags, captures, touches, deaths and ofc w/l and at the same time placing players in ranks but if not played over an extended period of time will lower the rank down until it is regained again. This prevents ZDaemon's ridiculously accumulative exp points system where most of the names at the top don't even play anymore and just have so many points from playing dm and spamming bfg all that time.

[Combinebobnt]

Your duel queue system sounds like something better for a small external program than an actual server browser.

[Medicris]

I'm down for Elo tracking but for certain gamemodes have it off by default (ACS Teamgames come to mind). It would be an option for starting servers, and be very very visible (perhaps a "Yes or No" dialog before continuing on server startup) for any person starting up a server just to make absolute sure they're aware it exists.

If you hate the idea, then just don't pay attention to it, have the option to not display your score publicly, or at the very least only have registered nicknames (verified like nickserv on client startup, perhaps through an IRC feeder) track stats. Not having it enabled by default almost undermines it though, since the majority won't go through the registration process if it's not mandatory.

[one_Two]

Pretty sure Elo would only work with duel.

[Ænima]

Is there a chance that some assholes might farm it by having a buddy (or a sockpuppet account) lose to them over and over again just to boost their stats?

[one_Two]

Is there a chance that some assholes might farm it by having a buddy (or a sockpuppet account) lose to them over and over again just to boost their stats?

Their Elo would inrease, but by increasingly less. A man in a US prison became one of the best chess players in the USA by repeatedly playing people like this, though the governing body soon realised.

[Shane]

Is there a chance that some assholes might farm it by having a buddy (or a sockpuppet account) lose to them over and over again just to boost their stats?

In that case, a lower rank would give a higher rank less elo raise, this should switch the demographic fairly easy as most already high ranked players wouldn't let some random guy just beat them all the time.

I'd prefer just stats, altho ranks for clans would be a nice idea and add more incentive to play better to gain better appeal for a clan.

[one_Two]

Is there a chance that some assholes might farm it by having a buddy (or a sockpuppet account) lose to them over and over again just to boost their stats?

In that case, a lower rank would give a higher rank less elo raise, this should switch the demographic fairly easy as most already high ranked players wouldn't let some random guy just beat them all the time.

I'd prefer just stats, altho ranks for clans would be a nice idea and add more incentive to play better to gain better appeal for a clan.

That is by definition how Elo works.

[RoSKing]

I have no problem with people talking, but I think that being slappe´d all the time with incorrectable padt mistakes is just not the way to go, specially as it wont attract newbies either.

There is smack talk in all other games with competition and newbies will still play. I think you're a wimp.

Going competitive right now is 10000000000X better than it was back in 2010

^ This. I'd feel sorry for you if you went to play league, dota 2 or smite, even quake live sometimes;
If you don't like smack talk, improve yourself to beat them. Then you are given the holy opportunity to talk shit to whoever was shit-talking you in the past
Edit: This isn't just me saying so, because I've done it in the past. I went from being in Ilc thinking "oh man R and Pro are unstoppable" to A3 thinking "yo lets stomp some of the high tier clans today" [not saying we were always successful, but we did do so a bunch of times]

too bad a3 just dodges now :c

[Slyfox]

Eh, motivation dried up; I'm still head-deep in league, only play on the weekends and strangle's busy as a mofo, I guess other a3 members are there but not really up for scrimming atm [afaik]
Edit: But the real point of my post was to show that shit-talking can be countered if you actually do something about it

[Erma]

Applying an ELO system into Zandronum would help and somewhat stimulate competitive play for players to reach for the top. Like right now, I'd have no idea who'd be the number 1 dueler or whatevs of Zandronum, so I could hunt and challenge his or her ass. It sounds stupid, but having a certain title pasted over your player name will create an image for others.

I, too, am one of those victims who plays League of Legends (It got meh T-T) a lot. I have a team which I play everyday with on the competitive side. Because of the fun times we have during gameplay and teamwork, we really enjoy ourselves (they're also online like, every day). In game, you'd see a border depending on what tier they are. That alone kinda gives people an image on what level those people usually play. What a simple border can do on League is insane.

LoL is quite the addictive game with decent graphics, even though some call it a more 'cartoonish' version of Dota. People tend to give games with "blocky/old" graphics the cold shoulder, which kinda saddens me. "Don't judge a game by it's looks!", I'd say.

League of Legends aside; I've been trying to get new people playing Zandronum so the competitive play might increase. Though I have no luck, since 1 already left, and another only plays when he reaaaally feels like it. Like that, I've also posted an idea for new people to give them a little push towards competitive play.

I am aware that my clan is inactive, but I reaaally try to change that. I don't quite have members to scrim with. Only have very few. Others have joined because they liked my clan's behaviour within it. If I had active members, who'd play Zandronum everyday and are willing to scrim, then I would totally scrim like, everyday. I swear on my life!

Nice to see that others are also kinda concerned about Zandronum's competitive play!

[Catastrophe]

Hm, I could attempt to try doing an experimental elo system in the future hmmm....

[Razgriz]

To be honest, I think the problem is more so that the mod scene and mods in general just have way more to offer than the competitive side. We have a lot of people who will play only mods they enjoy, and definitely only mods they're good at too just like a lot of us prefer CTF or duels, because we're good at them. It's the same for these people who play AoW, GvH, or whatever else, and given how many mods have been created that are not entirely competitive in our sense, and how many more mods will be created in the same aspect will just continue to entice newer players before they come to Priv and join what we think is competitive.


For new players who don't have the competitive drive that came from mods won't really want to compete with people who've been playing competitively for 2+ years having to learn 32+ new maps and getting destroyed in every match. At the very least, mods aren't competitive and generally there are a lot of rookie players, so the playing field is a lot nicer and playing is more enjoyable.

[Lollipop]

Razgriz, your words are pure gold as usual, you can send a message in a way noone else I have ever met is capable of.
Though, another problem is still that the players wont play competetive if they are not introduced to it, I have yet to see a CTF match that got more than 4 rookies.
BTW, do pub CTF still happen these days?

[Galactus]

Last month pub ctf happened a lot

[Nati46]

To be honest, I think the problem is more so that the mod scene and mods in general just have way more to offer than the competitive side. We have a lot of people who will play only mods they enjoy, and definitely only mods they're good at too just like a lot of us prefer CTF or duels, because we're good at them. It's the same for these people who play AoW, GvH, or whatever else, and given how many mods have been created that are not entirely competitive in our sense, and how many more mods will be created in the same aspect will just continue to entice newer players before they come to Priv and join what we think is competitive.


For new players who don't have the competitive drive that came from mods won't really want to compete with people who've been playing competitively for 2+ years having to learn 32+ new maps and getting destroyed in every match. At the very least, mods aren't competitive and generally there are a lot of rookie players, so the playing field is a lot nicer and playing is more enjoyable.

I think that we need to be more intiative and pull these mod players and introduce them to the competitive scene, like having them as new trainees. As a former mod player myself I was introduced into the scene after I was invited to a medium-tier clan (VGL at the time). From there I managed to improve. I'm also definitely not the only mod player who was introduced to the scene this way.
Sure, not every mod player as the drive to keep playing and eventually improve themselves, but the more people you introduce into the scene, eventually more will become competitive and stay.
You really can't expect a miracle to happen and have players join by themselves, each and every presently active competitive player must take initiative and actively seek and push them. Similiarly to how and recently [DC] has done before its death. More importantly the newer players must actively scrim together, with the older players guiding and training them.
Being more welcoming will also help them stay (Sure you can say that smack talk has been normal for years already, but when the scene needs every player it can get, it's more worth it to just put it down for now. )

Public ctf which has become more common lately is a good way to meet players who are potentially interested in joining the scene and improving their skills.
[hr][/hr]







I might also add : The assumption that the scene is inactive because "it's normal in such times of the year" is rather null, I remember that in these months in 2010 activity flourished especially after #euro was launched which also helped introduce new players to the priv and clan scene. Hell, in the first 3 months or so after its launch you were pretty much guaranteed to have a priv ctf game almost every day (and thats only in europe), and clan scrims were extremely common as well (with new players being among the scrimmers.) The lack of activity just shows that there havent been enough new players to replace the ones who have left or become inactive.





Most of this has probably already been said in this thread at some point, and I'm just bringing these common thoughts again to support their importance.

[capodecima]

Best way how raise competitive level is make some weekly but rather monthly events. Where you could run a lot different tournaments. Example CTF 2vs2, Railgun tournaments 1vs1, TDM tournaments etc. For this could be done easy page. Where you only quick put your email and name and you got always email beforehand than tournaments start. So you decide. If you want play or no. I am not the master of web programing. But i think for this could easy used some wordpress plugin or so.This idea was stolen from game Sauerbraten, which i play time to time and is there probably same amount of players like on zandronum. The page with tournaments is here http://dos.sauerworld.org/.