Addressing the Recent Allegations

[RedShirt]

I would like to start off that I am not out to flame, and that I would like everyone who responds in this thread to keep it as civil as possible.

Now, I would like to take a few minutes to share my opinion of the recent goings on in #zastaff today. For those who don't know there was a big meeting there discussing the community and how bans should be handled or something of the sort. (see this thread)

I would like to start off by saying that the same people have bashed us before that bashed us today, Bluewiz (iphone), soulsucka and the rest of the Blue's TS lot and of course Decay (who I honestly don't even remember) Now let me explain to everyone why we are hated on by these people and most of the time, only these people. Bluewiz is convinced that Spak has stolen members from his Teamspeak server, that we brainwashed them and had them come over to the "dark side" as it were. Anyone could go ahead and ask any of the people who moved to my server that they weren't forced in to joining. How could I possibly force anyone to join my server over the internet? It's simply preposterous but moving on.

Next I'll address this:

[15:48] <iphone> Well isn't it obvious spak is just manipulating metal to get them unbanned?

I couldn't help but laugh at this comment. Again with the brainwashing and manipulating. Again Blue, please leave the conspiracy theories to Jesse Ventura. Honestly I cant believe some of the mods even took you seriously after suggesting such a thing.

<iphone> Oh yeah, I remember on irc if they didn't like someone they'd log into multitudes just to spam your chat.

<Essay> irc, they circumvent bans just to harass you

I can't recall either of these ever happening. I would love to see evidence of these accusations.

Next I'd like to talk about the Spak City servers and WBuild.

16:15:59 <Dusk> I've heard that people suspect there's a backdoor

I'm outraged that people would even come up with these asinine accusations. I have no problem with the source being released but seeing as Watermelon is the developer of our custom server and he's been extremely busy with school and real life issues the pace has slowed. I can assure you that there is nothing malicious in WBuild.


I would like to end with this. Spak may not have the best track record. Most of what these people are complaining about is stuff from the past that's over and done with or works of fiction. It seems like its time to move on, all of us have. We're simply trying to better this community.

[Watermelon]

The only thing I could say to Decay is since I believe he's still stuck on what happened in the past -- of which I can't make any comment on besides imploring him to let go and see that the new Spak Crew (Redshirt + dr_noob) have kept to themselves upon coming back.


Bluewizard should not be claiming such things as he did. I'm surprised the admins haven't actually banned him yet for trolling since I've caught his IP on countless occasions going into WDI with teamkiller as his name and aggravating everyone. Unfortunately I'm not in the head position like Jenova or Konar6 to make the shots (even though Konar is fully aware of this situation, Jenova probably not so much since his plate is overloaded/full with university, as is mine as of tomorrow based on the start of this post). Maybe we'll get a 20 page baw report soon like what's been done in the past.
It was even obvious today when he came into #zastaff and started spouting anti-spak drama mainly because he thought he could get away with it. I hope that it's just an age issue and his maturity will grow a little (ideally a lot), though the reason he probably gets away with it is because the admins of the servers don't have enough balls to take action because they cave into the "oh you're going to be Kilgore v2.0", and then this just lets irritants stay around and plague the port.

The illogical and falsifications should stop. I don't even think slander is allowed in real life, so it shouldn't be allowed on here. Anything of actual substance should be discussed, but fairy tale illusions (like servers containing back doors when they can't send malicious stuff to clients [though I love being thought of as smart enough to carry out such a thing, +1 ego]) should be shunned and people who make them should be laughed out of this community.

[Catastrophe]

I'm glad you guys ignored my comment about you lot taking over that whodunit server and trolling everyone in it, of course Dr_noob included.

I'd respond to the rest but I'd get in trouble for that, so thank you for making the first move! This will be my last post on this thread, so next time be mature and pm me about your problems :)

[edd]

i havn't played who dun it in like, 2 years guy, what are you even talking about

[Razgriz]

Ahem, I would like to point out that you and your clans actions here don't help your case very much, Redshirt. http://pastebin.com/mf1DgMmk

This pastebin is what kick started the whole thing about 'Spak' becoming a problem, added on with some people not liking how your general group of people act in the server (from what I recall).

--WBuild

You might be angry or whatever about people thinking of WBuild not being genuine, but you would have to be suspicious when

1) The source code is not provided

2) 1 coupled with the Pastebin

3) Past history

You can say "yeah it was in the past, leave it" but you already damaged your image to the general public. It would take a very long time to even undo the damage you and the crew have done, and by then probably another happening like the Pastebin would crop up again, further undoing the progress you're trying to make.

[quote=RedShirt]We're simply trying to better this community.[/quote]

You can say this, but your actions have to back it up, or you just backtrack (which you already did). Nobody can trust you when what you say and what you do are totally different.

[AlexMax]

I'm kind of confused here. A "backdoor" implies that there are servers other than Spak City running wbuild. If it's just Spak City, then why would they need a backdoor...the spak admins have access to the machine and can do whatever they want to the server by definition, just like Konar's kpatch or the "anti-cheat" 98d that was floating around.

Don't get me wrong, if there was a publicly available binary without source I wouldn't run wbuild on my system without the source as a matter of principal, but what exactly was the accusation here?

Also, let's not kid ourselves, neither party in this discussion has had a spotless past and you guys have been at each others throats before. What's so different now?

[Zakken]

I would like to start off by saying that the same people have bashed us before that bashed us today, Bluewiz (iphone), soulsucka and the rest of the Blue's TS lot

Funny you name drop me, yet I wasn't even there for most of the meeting. I was only there for the beginning of it (discussing about Decay's ban) and its conclusion (public event announcing, I believe). Perhaps you should do more research with the logs that were leaked to you.

Bluewiz is convinced that Spak has stolen members from his Teamspeak server, that we brainwashed them and had them come over to the "dark side" as it were.

I couldn't help but laugh at this comment. Again with the brainwashing and manipulating. Again Blue, please leave the conspiracy theories to Jesse Ventura. Honestly I cant believe some of the mods even took you seriously after suggesting such a thing.

I like how you say our accusations are outrageous, yet you counter us by saying the very same things about us.

Anyone could go ahead and ask any of the people who moved to my server that they weren't forced in to joining. How could I possibly force anyone to join my server over the internet? It's simply preposterous but moving on.

No one said you forced anyone. Do you even know what the terms "brainwashing" and "manipulating" mean?

<iphone> Oh yeah, I remember on irc if they didn't like someone they'd log into multitudes just to spam your chat.

<Essay> irc, they circumvent bans just to harass you

I can't recall either of these ever happening. I would love to see evidence of these accusations.

Yeah, nevermind the fact that Edd would ban evade his way into the network every now and then, sometimes just to call me names in #priv (or troll elsewhere). This is also one of the greater representatives of Spak we're talking about.

I'm outraged that people would even come up with these asinine accusations. I have no problem with the source being released but seeing as Watermelon is the developer of our custom server and he's been extremely busy with school and real life issues the pace has slowed. I can assure you that there is nothing malicious in WBuild.

But we still aren't wrong on questioning such things. As long as the source stays closed, we'll never have such knowledge. I'm fairly sure our "omg paranoia" is justified.

Most of what these people are complaining about is stuff from the past that's over and done with or works of fiction.

I'm inclined to disagree. The Odamex scrim troll and the ragefest at #PRO are pretty recent things, and belong to the current Spak era.


@ Watermelon: I like how your entire post revolves around attacking BlueWizard, paired up with other offensive lines such as "I don't know why the staff doesn't agree with me, I guess they're too scared to!". It is made even more obvious in your last paragraph. So much for not flaming/staying civil.

It was even obvious today when he came into #zastaff and started spouting anti-spak drama mainly because he thought he could get away with it.

Looking at the pastebin myself, it did seem to be a legitimate matter that a few others also brought up and that the staff took into consideration. These people did not do it "just to get away with it".

[edd]

Yeah, nevermind the fact that Edd would ban evade his way into the network every now and then, sometimes just to call me names in #priv (or troll elsewhere). This is also one of the greater representatives of Spak we're talking about.

not evading, got unbanned from forums and irc long before the master

[Zakken]

Yeah, nevermind the fact that Edd would ban evade his way into the network every now and then, sometimes just to call me names in #priv (or troll elsewhere). This is also one of the greater representatives of Spak we're talking about.

not evading, got unbanned from forums and irc long before the master

You still ban evaded at least 3 times that I know of. You did it so you could scrim for MS, for H and for R too.

[The Toxic Avenger]

Yeah, nevermind the fact that Edd would ban evade his way into the network every now and then, sometimes just to call me names in #priv (or troll elsewhere). This is also one of the greater representatives of Spak we're talking about.

not evading, got unbanned from forums and irc long before the master

The IRC and forums were only made accessible to you again because of the switch to Zandronum from Skulltag. I probably would not be too far off in saying that if there was no switch, you would probably still be banned.

[Reach Term]

*create a wad that helps competition
*Water, who's probably the most level-headed and positive personal in this community that I've ever met and have immense respect for.
* I see this thread and it's contents

Fuck. this. port.

Sarcasm aside, I'm not surprised that the same people who have created such allegations are the same who have gone out on an all out holy war towards Red, Water and anyone who ever dares stepping in spak. In fact, this is zdanro's holy war. People who are with Bluewiz and People who are with Redshirt. I find it tiresome on both sides that this is happening and it needs to end. Here's my two cents on these topics:

*Spak trying to get metal to unban people
This is false, because if that were the case... we would've seen Edd or Tenchu online earlier than we see today. Also no one(if we exclude Edd and Ten) from Spak was banned. I was banned but as I said, irc bans were rightfully well met and the forums ban was actually was joke between me and Infuruns.

*Wbuild has backdoor problems
Um, please elaborate because this is news for me and I am somewhat confused on the matter.

*spak are trolls
I'm not going to lie, spak are trolls but as I recall, I remember when I was in blue's server(a time where everyone was on that server) everyone in that server wanted to troll some zdoom wars toureny creator. Everyone in this community is a troll, what makes spak any different?

[edd]

[/quote]
You still ban evaded at least 3 times that I know of. You did it so you could scrim for MS, for H and for R too.
[/quote]

regardless if that happened or not, i served my time, i don't think you've been granted a position to badger the people who makes those decisions, if they wanted your opinion about year old matters they would have asked for it

[Jenova]

This is such a stupid thread, trolls complaining about trolls, UnknownJackass is a 14 year old and hands his RCON passwords out like candy, and WDI having a backdoor makes no sense since it only runs on their servers (lol what the hell where did this one come from??).

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not usually one to agree with what those guys do, but you have brought up possibly the worst reasons as to why they should be banned.

[Ivan]

Odamex incident => Seriousness of the clan right there.

All I'm saying.

[Reach Term]

Odamex incident => Seriousness of the clan right there.

All I'm saying.

This... this is pissing me off more so than anything else. Because this is an overstatement of an isolated incident that happen somewhere else with someone who got too good for his own doing. Two things:

1. Surely a person like you should know that SPAK are people from all forms of life on here. Whether they be from LF, TM, A3, R, PRO and clan-less people from this community that comes together on a single TS server. Spak is not a clan but rather a common collective faction in between the community itself. It's like calling MM8BIT an over-sized clan. Yes, at one point majority of the users were from H but since H is dead. They all left for LF, TM, A3, R and PRO.

and

2. No one else but Tosen plot this. In fact, no one knew he was going to do. Once he did, a lot of people within spak wasn't glorying him(even myself) and told him he did a bad thing. Redshit had to handle a ton of bad publicity and receive a ton of flak as well; because of that, he had to kick Tosen out of the clan and wasn't allow back in. Speaking of Tosen, he actually hasn't been around for a month or so.

I don't know why people keep bringing up this one bad thing. It's in the past... I swear people in this community is pessimistic about everything that has happen in the past and thinking it's going to happen again. I don't see the logic with this bad press or why people can bring a correlation between people who likes to socialized on a TS server and bad shit. I bet everyone on here has done something as equally bad as they throw claims to SPAK.

[Ivan]

Odamex incident => Seriousness of the clan right there.

All I'm saying.

This... this is pissing me off more so than anything else. Because this is an overstatement of an isolated incident that happen somewhere else with someone who got too good for his own doing. Two things:

1. Surely a person like you should know that SPAK are people from all forms of life on here. Whether they be from LF, TM, A3, R, PRO and clan-less people from this community that comes together on a single TS server. Spak is not a clan but rather a common collective faction in between the community itself. It's like calling MM8BIT an over-sized clan. Yes, at one point majority of the users were from H but since H is dead. They all left for LF, TM, A3, R and PRO.

I don't care about where you guys are from or how you live. This was meant to discuss "you" as a whole right? So...

and

2. No one else but Tosen plot this. In fact, no one knew he was going to do. Once he did, a lot of people within spak wasn't glorying him(even myself) and told him he did a bad thing. Redshit had to handle a ton of bad publicity and receive a ton of flak as well; because of that, he had to kick Tosen out of the clan and wasn't allow back in. Speaking of Tosen, he actually hasn't been around for a month or so.

He was under your "clan" when that happened so obviously what I said applies. You make this whole thing sound as if he had to attend lots of meetings with the media to correct his behavior, really, geez.

I don't know why people keep bringing up this one bad thing. It's in the past... I swear people in this community is pessimistic about everything that has happen in the past and thinking it's going to happen again. I don't see the logic with this bad press or why people can bring a correlation between people who likes to socialized on a TS server and bad shit. I bet everyone on here has done something as equally bad as they throw claims to SPAK.

Why? Because we can. Why? Because it's a TERRIBLE thing that "you" had done. Why bringing things in the past? Because the damn thread is about the discussion of "your" past and why you have been "misjudged", right? Also, good lucking finding something that stupid and critical that I or people on Blue's TS have done.

[Reach Term]

Odamex incident => Seriousness of the clan right there.

All I'm saying.

This... this is pissing me off more so than anything else. Because this is an overstatement of an isolated incident that happen somewhere else with someone who got too good for his own doing. Two things:

1. Surely a person like you should know that SPAK are people from all forms of life on here. Whether they be from LF, TM, A3, R, PRO and clan-less people from this community that comes together on a single TS server. Spak is not a clan but rather a common collective faction in between the community itself. It's like calling MM8BIT an over-sized clan. Yes, at one point majority of the users were from H but since H is dead. They all left for LF, TM, A3, R and PRO.

I don't care about where you guys are from or how you live. This was meant to discuss "you" as a whole right? So...

You just ignored my whole point.... "Us" don't have that common trolling aspect like Tosen.

and

2. No one else but Tosen plot this. In fact, no one knew he was going to do. Once he did, a lot of people within spak wasn't glorying him(even myself) and told him he did a bad thing. Redshit had to handle a ton of bad publicity and receive a ton of flak as well; because of that, he had to kick Tosen out of the clan and wasn't allow back in. Speaking of Tosen, he actually hasn't been around for a month or so.

He was under your "clan" when that happened so obviously what I said applies. You make this whole thing sound as if he had to attend lots of meetings with the media to correct his behavior, really, geez.

Think about it, it's like when Chris Benoit killed his family and himself. WWE was going to glorify him and respect him. Then they realise what he did and they have stricken him from history because what he did. So to put it in context, Chris Benoit is like Tosen and Redshit is Vince McMahon. Also no one from H no less was fond of Tosen doing that. Stop thinking that Tosen was this big player within the teampeak server. He was no different than me. Also fianlly, redshit got thrown under the bus when this happen... if this was anyone else that wasn't in H. It would've applied to them as well.
[/quote]

I don't know why people keep bringing up this one bad thing. It's in the past... I swear people in this community is pessimistic about everything that has happen in the past and thinking it's going to happen again. I don't see the logic with this bad press or why people can bring a correlation between people who likes to socialized on a TS server and bad shit. I bet everyone on here has done something as equally bad as they throw claims to SPAK.

Why? Because we can. Why? Because it's a TERRIBLE thing that "you" had done. Why bringing things in the past? Because the damn thread is about the discussion of "your" past and why you have been "misjudged", right? Also, good lucking finding something that stupid and critical that I or people on Blue's TS have done.

We're not going to hide about our past... but at least we're not going to glorify ourselves because of it anymore. Red hasn't done it when he came back and I just started not allow people to do that with me. In fact, you can ask the mods that we've have changed since our ways in the past and they can tell you yes, they have. I've never met you back when so you can't just throw around on just how bad I was.

Also, good lucking finding something that stupid and critical that I or people on Blue's TS have done.

Here's a perfect example. Back went Water and Tor was in A3, everyone on "your"(using you, blue and the server as a common word like you are doing) server was getting pissed off at this zdoom war mapper because he wouldn't allow Water to help out. So everyone(including me because you guys hoped that I was going to do the hard work) started to pick on the little guy. I look back and regretted seeing how it was stupid even for my own damn good. Also if I was talking to other former members of bluewiz's could probably tell stories just as bad as us.

This is going to become a shitstorm so may I ask our post to be in the trash and Ivan, if you want to talk about it more, do it in PM. Because you're the only person who goes to blue's server that I still have respect for.

[Dusk]

16:15:59 <Dusk> I've heard that people suspect there's a backdoor

I'll just drop in to note I just relayed what rumors I've heard, I myself don't believe Watermelon would have such stuff in the servers.

[Zakken]

*create a wad that helps competition

Probably so. Definitely not DOOM competition though.

*Water, who's probably the most level-headed and positive personal in this community that I've ever met and have immense respect for.

Considering all he did in this thread so far was jump on Bluewiz's neck, I'd like to disagree, but that's just me.

*Spak trying to get metal to unban people
This is false, because if that were the case... we would've seen Edd or Tenchu online earlier than we see today.

They are unbanned now, aren't they? The time they got unbanned doesn't change a thing.

Also no one(if we exclude Edd and Ten) from Spak was banned. I was banned but as I said, irc bans were rightfully well met and the forums ban was actually was joke between me and Infuruns.

RedShirt was also banned from the forums for a long while. At this point, you're sounding like "Um... Except from Spak's more important and long-time members, no one else got banned!"

Everyone in this community is a troll, what makes spak any different?

Why do you guys keep using the "everyone else does it too, so shut up" argument as an attempt to lessen your guilt? It's not working, by the way.

regardless if that happened or not, i served my time, i don't think you've been granted a position to badger the people who makes those decisions, if they wanted your opinion about year old matters they would have asked for it

Not really served your time if you kept ban-evading and bypassing your sentence. You're about in the same league as KalFoxis and Shadowfox in terms of desperation. I'm not pretending to forget what you've done.

1. Surely a person like you should know that SPAK are people from all forms of life on here. Whether they be from LF, TM, A3, R, PRO and clan-less people from this community that comes together on a single TS server. Spak is not a clan but rather a common collective faction in between the community itself. It's like calling MM8BIT an over-sized clan. Yes, at one point majority of the users were from H but since H is dead. They all left for LF, TM, A3, R and PRO.

Sorry to burst your religious-ish propaganda, but several things:
LF and TM are basically just H split into two.
There is no one from Spak in A3 right now.
Aside from maybe Caution, no one from R was really considered a Spak member until Watermelon joined.
PRO, aka the staff clan, also used to be largely against Spak, as evidenced by those bans. They seem to have changed their mind though!

2. No one else but Tosen plot this. In fact, no one knew he was going to do. Once he did, a lot of people within spak wasn't glorying him(even myself) and told him he did a bad thing. Redshit had to handle a ton of bad publicity and receive a ton of flak as well; because of that, he had to kick Tosen out of the clan and wasn't allow back in. Speaking of Tosen, he actually hasn't been around for a month or so.

It's funny you don't bring up the time when Spak came to Odamex to hijack a scrim. If you guys were really so sorry about what he did there, you wouldn't have come back to do equally stupid things.

I bet everyone on here has done something as equally bad as they throw claims to SPAK.

I'm sure no one outside of Spak interrupted IDL games or hijacked scrims, heh.

I'm not going to lie, spak are trolls but as I recall, I remember when I was in blue's server(a time where everyone was on that server) everyone in that server wanted to troll some zdoom wars toureny creator.

Here's a perfect example. Back went Water and Tor was in A3, everyone on "your"(using you, blue and the server as a common word like you are doing) server was getting pissed off at this zdoom war mapper because he wouldn't allow Water to help out. So everyone(including me because you guys hoped that I was going to do the hard work) started to pick on the little guy. I look back and regretted seeing how it was stupid even for my own damn good. Also if I was talking to other former members of bluewiz's could probably tell stories just as bad as us.

If you're talking about DarkWyvern or Savant, their tournament was a fluke anyway (it had stronger blue team monsters than the red team ones). Also, going by what you said, it was also Watermelon's idea to pick on the "poor guy" and, as you know, Water is not with us anymore.

This is going to become a shitstorm so may I ask our post to be in the trash

It won't become a shitstorm if you stop playing the victim.

[Tenchu]

LF and TM are basically just H split into two.

SwiftShot, Fluffles and I were never associated with H at all, and Acolyte and Legion were never really involved with any of the H drama, they was just there for the ride. That's well over half our clan. Yes we do have Hydra, who was basically the heart of H, and Lilith who was involved with some major H drama, but that's only two members and they both have shown they're moving on from the drama that happened there. LF does not have anything to do with H and is not involved with any of the drama that happened before the formation of LF.

To say something on-topic: Honestly Reach, props and all for defending Spak, but really this is the same shit we've been seeing for years it's nothing new. People like Soul and Ivan are the type to never forgive and forget. People like them will latch on to the past and cling onto it forever. They're not worth your time. Spak does have a shady past, no doubt, but Spak is definitely making a turn for the better and getting involved with the community. If we keep up this way, in time people will start to recognize Spak for the good things they've done, if they haven't already. All we have to do is keep up the good work and let time do the rest. :-)