Zandronum + the new gametic (Different discussion)

[Torr Samaho]

I'd say at the moment, it's stable and good enough to put into a 2.0 beta build, if any people encounter issues with it, they can still use ping unlagged so no harm will be done.

Does everybody agree? If so, I'll go ahead, merge unlagged into our standard repositories and prepare an official 2.0 beta build.

For example we could host the next Friday Night Fragfest with this beta build? That'd be a good test for it since those servers usually get filled with atleast over 20+ people.

This is something you should discuss with the FNF testing team. Having a large testing session with the official beta would be great though.

[Kara Kurt]

I'd say at the moment, it's stable and good enough to put into a 2.0 beta build, if any people encounter issues with it, they can still use ping unlagged so no harm will be done.

Does everybody agree? If so, I'll go ahead, merge unlagged into our standard repositories and prepare an official 2.0 beta build.

Yeah, that and having it in the 2.0 beta build wouldn't prevent us from testing it with 2.0.

[TerminusEst13]

I'd say at the moment, it's stable and good enough to put into a 2.0 beta build, if any people encounter issues with it, they can still use ping unlagged so no harm will be done.

Does everybody agree? If so, I'll go ahead, merge unlagged into our standard repositories and prepare an official 2.0 beta build.

I'm not everybody, but I agree emphatically--throughout testing, I've had absolutely no problems. I even managed to crank ping up into the ten-thousands and still it handled incredibly well.

EDIT: Though we all agreed if your ping manages to reach the ten-thousands point you probably shouldn't be playing online.

[Bloax]

I played both with 460ms of tool-assisted ping and then later with 250-667 actual ping (while uploading said video, no less) and both times it worked very well, with the only issue being me dying before the shot actually went off - but that's a latency issue and not an unlagged issue.
So I'm definitely boarding with this train.

[Kara Kurt]

I played both with 460ms of tool-assisted ping and then later with 250-667 actual ping (while uploading said video, no less) and both times it worked very well

Don't be so sure.



The player in front wasn't moving in your video.

[Danzoa]

I played both with 460ms of tool-assisted ping and then later with 250-667 actual ping (while uploading said video, no less) and both times it worked very well

Don't be so sure.



The player in front wasn't moving in your video.

Yeah but that is like a once in a lifetime experience, it happens maybe once in an entire array of matches.

For example, I played without any whiffs at all, untill Watakid, at the same time you had ghost shots too, it happens. But the regular unlagged with ping, makes this happen more than once a day or so, it happens occasionally wich isn't the case with Gametic unlagged.

Hence the reason a Beta build with it would be much better than the current 1.3. I hope everyone can agree on that?

[Bloax]

My aim is shit and I wouldn't exclude damage RNG/packetloss fuckery out of the equation for that little "dropped" shot.

Either way, this is much better than status quo. 10/10 would unlag again

[Watermelon]

I played both with 460ms of tool-assisted ping and then later with 250-667 actual ping (while uploading said video, no less) and both times it worked very well

Don't be so sure.



The player in front wasn't moving in your video.

Is there a demo for this? Clientside prediction can cause shots (regardless of unlagged) to get nuked if something tragic happens at that point in time of firing. A demo from the player and another person would be needed to rule out:
- any weird lag
- any dropped shots (or rather, packets)
- desync collision errors
- any other bugs


When I return from a lot of RL stuff, I'd like to work on the netcode aspect of dropped shots, I know a way to handle them if a packet is lost along the way. Though I'll be gone until most likely the beginning of next week or at earliest this weekend.

[Torr Samaho]

When I return from a lot of RL stuff, I'd like to work on the netcode aspect of dropped shots, I know a way to handle them if a packet is lost along the way.

Would you mind sketching the idea behind this?

[Bloax]

Is there a demo for this?

Unfortunately not, but I'm sure we can get something like a three-person crunch going to try and reproduce it while actually recording demos.

[Kara Kurt]

Does "dropped shots" exist for real though? Because... every time I hear that I imagine Kal'whiny'foxis shitting Zd's netcode.

Couldn't it just be packet loss or unstable ping?

[Bloax]

I'm pretty sure the dropped shot in question is due to packetloss, since I explicitly set it to 2% when I played those games.

[Watermelon]

Does "dropped shots" exist for real though? Because... every time I hear that I imagine Kal'whiny'foxis shitting Zd's netcode.

Couldn't it just be packet loss or unstable ping?

I'm pretty sure ZDaemons dropped shot issue is due to internal code errors, it happens way too frequently compared to packet loss. It seemed to get critically worse with 1.09 so I'm pretty sure it's a coding error on their part. It seems to be amplified by laggers, so I'm guessing ZD erroneously makes players unhittable when they're lagging due to a bug and the shots go right through. Then again, trying to play on ZD with >100 ping indicates there's likely more problems there.

Packet loss is a prime cause of dropped shots (since the shooting message never arrives) and unstable ping with ping unlagged causes it to be reconciled wrong. Can't solve the first one, but I hopefully solved the second. So if he's playing on 1.09 with an unstable connection and having a bad RNG day, it probably looks like the port is broken (and their netstats don't really tell too much).

When I return from a lot of RL stuff, I'd like to work on the netcode aspect of dropped shots, I know a way to handle them if a packet is lost along the way.

Would you mind sketching the idea behind this?

Other games (and doom ports as well) have a 32 bit field that tracks the last 32 gametic firing fields, so the server can see if a packet was lost or out of order along the way. It's not perfect, but I've never experienced any dropped shots unless my entire connection goes to hell in other games/ports. Plus it prevents weapons from going out of sync (as I never had any out of sync errors there as I do here). Maybe two birds with one stone hopefully? There are some problems we face because we have access to the states and durations, but I can hopefully bring this up next time in a meeting with some possible solutions to that.

[Kara Kurt]

Does "dropped shots" exist for real though? Because... every time I hear that I imagine Kal'whiny'foxis shitting Zd's netcode.

Couldn't it just be packet loss or unstable ping?

I'm pretty sure ZDaemons dropped shot issue is due to internal code errors, it happens way too frequently compared to packet loss. It seemed to get critically worse with 1.09 so I'm pretty sure it's a coding error on their part. It seems to be amplified by laggers, so I'm guessing ZD erroneously makes players unhittable when they're lagging due to a bug and the shots go right through. Then again, trying to play on ZD with >100 ping indicates there's likely more problems there.

Couldn't it be the blockmap or hitboxes being desynced?