Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#21

Post by someoneelse » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:55 am

Another fine reason to never touch this shit again.

edit: CloudFlash, bullshit. You make a mistake of being "logical" by forgetting human beings have feelings and emotions. Which is as logical as trying to calculate how plane flies forgetting about air resistance.
Last edited by someoneelse on Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#22

Post by CloudFlash » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:07 am

Come on, how can this possibly be a discussion without having two discussing sides...
Also, you too make a mistake of forgetting that human is much much smaller than society... and society is a lady highly resistant to enamoring
Last edited by CloudFlash on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#23

Post by someoneelse » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:15 am

Well, if your stance is "I don't give a fuck about that dude" we have nothing more to talk about. I can understand this is your point and move along.
But then, this should be your point, not "if dude is told to kill himself and he complies for whatever reason, it means he would do anything he's being coerced to", which is false. "I don't give a fuck about people who aren't my friends/family" is a pretty dark, but valid point. Trying to convince yourself that if someone is hurt it's probably their fault means you're morality isn't compatible with this point, and you try to silence it by bullshit arguments.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#24

Post by Bloax » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:20 am

CloudFlash wrote:If kid understands that he is sarcastic and he has to deal with his problems by himself, then he can change his ways and he has a big chance in winning the situation.
Did you even read the OP in the post that's referred to in Xaser's post?
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#25

Post by CloudFlash » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:26 am

someoneelse wrote: Well, if your stance is "I don't give a fuck about that dude" we have nothing more to talk about. I can understand this is your point and move along.
But then, this should be your point, not "if dude is told to kill himself and he complies for whatever reason, it means he would do anything he's being coerced to", which is false. "I don't give a fuck about people who aren't my friends/family" is a pretty dark, but valid point. Trying to convince yourself that if someone is hurt it's probably their fault means you're morality isn't compatible with this point, and you try to silence it by bullshit arguments.
And by 'bullshit arguments' you mean 'No, it's not true! Liar, liar!'?
Because that's kinda your argument at the moment.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#26

Post by someoneelse » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:57 am

I put example, but without using quote option, as it's a bit agressive:
"Trying to convince yourself that if someone is hurt it's probably their fault" which refers to your point that if desperate suicidal guy sees "kill yourself" as good-intentioned joke (which REALLY is an unique interpretation) and not as another punch/challenge to dare to suicide instead of writing about intention.
""if dude is told to kill himself and he complies for whatever reason, it means he would do anything he's being coerced to", referrs mainly to this quote:
CloudFlash wrote:if he doesn't recognise bad advice when he reads those words and actualy follows them, then that means he would listen to someone else telling him to murder his parents
I am afraid you're not really reading what I write and instead answer "no u" to keep the conversation going, playing devil's advocate for amusement (which will lead to split really fast). And I don't find this topic amusing.

Again, if your opinion is "I don't care about people I don't know, Saergant Mark had some fun ripping on suicidal dude but I don't care, I only care about his mod I like/dislike" I can't discuss with that. If it's "People with problems like this should die", well, I will be backing up slowly, keeping eye contact, untill I will be at enough distance to run.
But if you're trying to make a point that telling suicidal people to kill themselves is really a rough, but friendly way to trying to help them, or that being on the verge of suicide is the same as listening to every dude on the internet in everything, I call that bullshit.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#27

Post by Qent » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:04 am

Someoneelse, in this case Binary did actually express a desire to murder his mother, so being coerced into committing murder isn't much more of a stretch than suicide. I wouldn't expect that to be true in general, however.

CloudFlash, even if "society as a whole" wouldn't miss him very much, that is no justification for encouraging someone to kill himself. He should be encouraged to overcome his difficulties rather than using suicide as a sort of acid test to determine whether he is fit to survive.
Last edited by Qent on Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#28

Post by Medicris » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:40 am

The long and the short of it is anyone else would've been perma'd long ago if they acted like Sergeant Von Bluedickcheese The Fourth.

Seriously, I've seen people banned for petty words directed at projects on there while Mark basically gets a slap on the wrist for something like openly recommending and advising a kid on how to kill himself on their forum, along with other major infractions of the rules and behavior guidelines.

It's sickening, really. The double standards astound me. What the hell is the administration doing over there?
Last edited by Medicris on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#29

Post by XCOPY » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:45 am

The current state of mind of Binary doesn't seem good: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post-hell/6 ... dark-king/

Now let's make a new thread for every case where a suicidal person is being a victim of internet. Seeing the forum lagging will be *fun*. But I have to argue here or else I will be confused with a random brutal doom fanatic zealot right?

Why didn't Xaser make a new thread to discuss about it instead? Now look, the brutal doom thread is closed, which could be avoided. I'm sorry for those who think I shouldn't (right Decay?), but I (and most people on the internet who likes the mod) will keep playing the mod anyway, thanks for trying but I just don't give a damn about what an author does on the internet or IRL, it's not like I have to deal with his presence every day and night, it's just a fucking file which is an effort of many people besides the leader and still I don't care about them too. For the sake of comprehension I repeat: I don't fucking care about the mod author nor any other people involved ever, but I don't agree when someone tries to link the author's behaviour or what he does etc. to the mod, this seems like those TV shows about famous people (OH LOOK HE DID SOMETHING BAD WOOOOOO). Also,
Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:Wait, does anyone here actually thinks that Binary was actually trying to commit suicide, and that was not just a troll post?
Which just shows that he didn't have the intention to "kill" the suicidal one. He thought it was a troll post and he replied just like another troll. He should ignore it, though.

ON THE OTHER SIDE, this express my opinion best:
darkstar64 wrote: What bothers is me is that someone with suicidal thoughts is publicly asking the internet for help, which is the worst place you can ask for something this serious. That's just inviting the world into your private matters and Sarge took advantage of that, and I'm sure that didn't help the OP, if anything it would have made him more depressed.

So, the OP should go see a counselor instead. If anything, telling everyone you wanna kill yourself online just seems like a desperate attempt to get attention, but it seems that Sarge stole the spotlight.
Lesson of the day: Welcome to internets, the troll haven! Hence, not the best place to take tips for your IRL issues.

Good game, everyone back to home, you can do nothing to help Binary on his IRL issues and you just have to fucking deal with it.
Last edited by XCOPY on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#30

Post by infurnus » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:49 am

I don't have much to say other than I notice a few posters doing a lot of victim blaming, which I personally find disgusting.

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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#31

Post by ibm5155 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:47 am

Well well another useless post about negative things for bd...
really that guy ask help on The internet? Really? He must suicide, his life must Be a shit for he doesnt tell this to father and mom...
so if i post a 200% nigga video, ill be racist and noone ll play my mod? No.
well doom os The problem, serial killers played doom. So what? Ban doom, its easy...

well that guy would be better trolled at 4chan but well, deal with it...

User has been warned for this post.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#32

Post by HTG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:57 pm

ibm5155 wrote: Well well another useless post about negative things for bd...
really that guy ask help on The internet? Really? He must suicide, his life must Be a shit for he doesnt tell this to father and mom...
so if i post a 200% nigga video, ill be racist and noone ll play my mod? No.
well doom os The problem, serial killers played doom. So what? Ban doom, its easy...

well that guy would be better trolled at 4chan but well, deal with it...
It's good to see he isn't the only one that encourages suicide!

As for this whole fiasco. It was a really dumb thing for him to say but i honestly doubt he would say it if he didn't think the guy was trolling

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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#33

Post by Ivan » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:04 pm

Alright we all know what to do, it is to...

KILL SARGEANT MARK IV.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#34

Post by ibm5155 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:08 pm

I dont give a shit if a unknow dud want tl suicide. IF he want or not, its him problem.
alot of people die all The days.so one more Will not do any difference...
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#35

Post by Ivan » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:32 pm

ibm5155 wrote: I dont give a shit if a unknow dud want tl suicide. IF he want or not, its him problem.
alot of people die all The days.so one more Will not do any difference...
Will not do a difference for who?

I suspect this topic can cause some problems in the future... It really is going to become "what if someone dies?" vs "why the hell do you think of these things?" We'll see.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#36

Post by Dusk » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm

I've already been long convinced that Sgt Mark is just trying to be an ass to others to get his face on the "front page" to get his flawless, perfect creation of the gods called Brutal Doom even more popular than what it already is. While most disgusting, I don't find it anyhow surprising. I fail to understand why he hasn't been banned from ZDoom forums yet.

EDIT: Oh I see. He even changed his custom title to "worse than Hitler" to be even more provoking. It's a bit ironic in retrospect since my post will just add more fuel to the fire instead of extinguishing it, what is what should happen.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#37

Post by Spottswoode » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:12 pm

Decay wrote:
I think Sgt Mark IV was just covering his ass with that post, trying to be funny. Your point is moot.

I dunno about you, but personally I would not (and don't) support an author who 1) is a prick to not only to a general populace, but to his own fans and is extraordinarily egotistic about it 2) is evidently a misogynist 3) a racist and 4) I strongly suspect a Nazi sympathizer given his constant reference to Nazi ideas (Final Solution, After the Holocaust, etc). Along with the whole "Real gore" fiasco, I believe this author has some mental issues of his own that should probably be taken up with a qualified counselor. Perhaps his response to binary was related to his own mental health issues.....
Not exactly an impartial observer are you? (I'll forego the fact you started this thread for now.) Sgt Mark's style of humor, use of blood and gore, and use of nazi paraphanelia is not only unexceptional, but actually considerably less than half of the shit that comes on TV every night. Matter of fact, I think between Metalocalypse, Squidbillies, Aqua Teen Hunger force, and South Park we've covered 99% of Mark's material.( And that's just an hour and a half.)
Secondly, it's highly probable that Mark actually thought that the OP was a troll. I'm inclined to agree with him given the language used in it. Honestly, who comes on the Zdoom forums, of all places, to spout out homicidal random shit? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and given the posters recent joining date it looks suspicious. (I'm not excusing what he did.)

Spoiler: My rather trite opinion on the base matter. (Open)
I'll go ahead and say I have no sympathy for suicidal ideation. While it's not a joking matter (in real life anyway), it is pathetic. If you can't deal with high school because you hate being trapped in one place or another with people you don't actually care about, move. Drop out. Get a job. If you're legally an adult and you have legs quit fucking crying and make your own goddamn decisions.
Last edited by Spottswoode on Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#38

Post by Spottswoode » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:13 pm

Decay wrote: Any decent social scientist knows that objectivity (impartiality) is impossible. Let's skip that though.
Half true. While most social sciences aren't ethically capable of most controlled testing (double blind examination for example) , a number of tests can be used through adequate sampling to achieve a quasi-objective inquiry. The results have good enough sampling and correlation to be worthy of peer review and serious academic study. That wasn't even the point in my statement, though. Criminology is interdisciplinary (mostly behavioral) and doesn't draw exclusively from social sciences, by the way.
wrote: Let's also retire that old media debate, because frankly it's one I'm very tired of hearing, that has no substantive proof behind it other than spurious connections, and scholarly articles that are undoubtedly funded by opposing interest groups. Not to mention that begins to work on a clinical psychology frame of reference, and frankly, clinical psychology (and some other branches of psychology) is given far more authority than they deserve, and are nothing less than a hack.
Irrelevant. The point was not to connect modern media to action or intent, merely to show that Mark's content is hardly original. (Excessive perhaps.) I'll also throw in No More Heroes and MadWorld for gore comparison. (yipes....baaadddd typo....)
wrote: To the argument of Mark believing the post was a troll, that does not invite a response such as he gave. One cannot simply joke about that, because you never know, it may come true. I recall another Doomer who threatened suicide, and fallout from that.
Which doesn't address the fact that he may have actually credibly presumed the OP was a troll. It doesn't excuse what he did, (which I already said) but your narrative of just covering his ass is at most equally credible. Given the choice, I give the accused the benefit of the doubt. From examining the evidence presented at the time the action occurred, I could reasonably reach the same conclusion he claims he made. I see no conclusive or persuasive evidence to counter it. Hence, your bias.
wrote: The principle behind this is more important, because of what Doom is recognized by. Years ago, the mass cultures connotated Doom with Eric Harris, due to publicity. Who is getting massive publicity now? Sgt Mark IV. His beliefs are what Doomers such as myself may begin to be associated with, and honestly, I'd rather not be associated with such scum.
I'd rather give Mark free speech even if he makes an ass of himself with it. His use of it has gotten the source ports more attention than they have in years, drawing a number of new players to the ports. If you wish to disassociate with him, there are a number of groups opposed to BrutalDoom and Mark as an individual. As to what other people (i.e. the rest of the world) thinks, I honestly don't care. Most people have an opinion on matters that lasts as long as a newsreel. GTA V has received similar press from conservative media, but their credibility wains with statements like "Do you really want your 10 year old playing this?" from Mike Huckabee. Worry if you must. If they can't read what's on the box or spend 5 minutes with one of the rest of us, why should I care what they think? If they start pushing for regulation, give me a call. I have some friends with law licenses.
wrote: To the point of you not having sympathy towards these people is understandable, although it is not my standpoint. Suicide is more of a mental health issue, and not to address it, or to address it poorly, is to continue to brush mental health issues under the carpet, which is a huge problem in contemporary society.
In the end, the only person who can fix your problems is you. You may need help and it may be difficult but if anybody is going to make your life better it's going to be you. It's not brushing it under the carpet, as acknowledging you have a problem and seeking help for it is necessary to move forward. But that forward momentum is ultimately dependent on you.
Last edited by Spottswoode on Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#39

Post by ibm5155 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:20 pm

well, be the best word on that case was prejudice and not racism...

Now with less rage and ontopic.

"why you should not support a mod by such a person. Respect yourselves."

old history:
"john romero's about to make you his bitch" that was the phrase at daikatana, but that doesn´t mean no one played daikatana because of an idiot phrase;

The fact are: it doesn´t matter what the mod author does/type, people be and will be playing brutal doom, if not people would stop to play doom since the day from Columbine's slaughter...
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RE: Brutal Doom author encourages suicide, discuss

#40

Post by Lollipop » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:31 pm

1. Sarge is a complete asshole and he should be banned from whole doom community.
2. That post just did not look like a troll to me. The thread in the thread hell looked like he actually believed what he typed, and somehow got himself a mental condition (pretty possible if you're bullied).
3. Asking for help on the internet is a common thing, I once asked 'SSS' Terrorist on aow (2 years ago or something) because I just felt empty and wierd.

I do not see what there really is to discuss at all, just get Sarge banned already for what he have done. If binary never show up again, then Sarge must pay the price, and never come back.
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