0001733: Chaingun Auto-sniping alias

(0008328)
Nati46 (reporter)
2014-03-06 23:12
edited on: 2014-03-06 23:19

Asking for this to be removed is on the same scale of asking SR50 aliases to be removed - both of these do not give you a possibility to do something which is impossible otherwise, but are only a method which allow you to do it easier, utilizing zandronum features (the 'wait' command in particular)
Its effectiveness is also not extreme; even in wide open maps it is often difficult to hit consistently, and in close ranges it does not overcome weapons such as the SSG/Plasma/RL.
Similiarly to how old players have used traditional methods of sr50(and still do), many players are also competent at manual chain tapping and would not find this alias necessary.
(The alias in question which capo is talking about is a modification of theshooter7's linked in the report, I will post it upon request if asked to)

(0008330)
Popsoap (reporter)
2014-03-06 23:29
edited on: 2014-03-07 01:56

The chaingun is already a somewhat underpowered weapon. And most DM maps aren't large enough to make the exploit overpowered.

(0008331)
Dusk (developer)
2014-03-07 00:56

And how exactly does one go around capping this behavior anyway? On the client or server-side? The server only recieves the attack commands and on the client-side.. prevent wait? that'd break a ton of things, prevent +attack and nobody can even fire a weapon.

I think this is pretty much "unfixable".

(0008336)
Dark-Assassin (administrator)
2014-03-07 05:08

This behaviour with the chaingun firing perfectly accurate for the first 2 shots are all the same spanning from Vanilla DOOM.EXE to the latest ZDoom.

There isn't really anything you can do about it at all, unless you wish to make a patch wad that changes the chaingun to replace A_FireCGun to A_FirePistol (Same but no perfect accuracy thing) or the example code listed here:'http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_FireCGun [^]'

(0008354)
Dark-Assassin (administrator)
2014-03-07 11:46

If it's really such a problem, I propose as an alternative, a compat flag to have chaingun not be perfectly accurate on the first 2 shots.
But again, it's just as easily fixed with a wad, so it's probably not necessary.

IDK the mechanics of ZDaemon, so it's not much use asking me.
All I know is some things are different from Vanilla.
From what I can tell, ZDoom tries to keep it's base mechanics close to vanilla as possible, mainly through use of compat flags.

(0008355)
Nati46 (reporter)
2014-03-07 12:04
edited on: 2014-03-07 12:06

The only way to disallow this without hurting anything else would be a compatflag which enables/disables the 'wait' console command (which does not exist in zd anymore and was never implemented in odamex therefore it is impossible to make such an alias in those ports) Using a wad would need a hacky method - I dont think competitive people would like to remove chain tapping totally, but only the option to use an alias for it (Which the wait command allows)
Also GJ capo for flaming as usual :)

(0008356)
Dusk (developer)
2014-03-07 12:53
edited on: 2014-03-07 12:54

fuleco, please refrain from ad hominems. Your post has been deleted, try again.

(0008357)
fuleco (reporter)
2014-03-07 13:21

Fuck you.

(0008358)
Dusk (developer)
2014-03-07 13:44

Well I guess that answers that.

This issue is already marked as resolved. If you feel that is not the case, please reopen it and explain why.
Supporters:	No one explicitly supports this issue yet.
Opponents:	Nati46 Popsoap

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2014-03-06 22:03	fuleco	New Issue
2014-03-06 23:12	Nati46	Note Added: 0008328
2014-03-06 23:15	Nati46	Note Edited: 0008328	View Revisions
2014-03-06 23:19	Nati46	Note Edited: 0008328	View Revisions
2014-03-06 23:29	Popsoap	Note Added: 0008330
2014-03-07 00:56	Dusk	Note Added: 0008331
2014-03-07 01:56	Popsoap	Note Edited: 0008330	View Revisions
2014-03-07 05:08	Dark-Assassin	Note Added: 0008336
2014-03-07 11:06	fuleco	Note Added: 0008353
2014-03-07 11:17	fuleco	Note Edited: 0008353	View Revisions
2014-03-07 11:22	fuleco	Note Edited: 0008353	View Revisions
2014-03-07 11:46	Dark-Assassin	Note Added: 0008354
2014-03-07 12:04	Nati46	Note Added: 0008355
2014-03-07 12:06	Nati46	Note Edited: 0008355	View Revisions
2014-03-07 12:53	Dusk	Note Added: 0008356
2014-03-07 12:53	Dusk	Note Deleted: 0008353
2014-03-07 12:54	Dusk	Note Edited: 0008356	View Revisions
2014-03-07 13:21	fuleco	Note Added: 0008357
2014-03-07 13:44	Dusk	Note Added: 0008358
2014-03-07 13:44	Dusk	Status	new => closed
2014-03-07 13:44	Dusk	Resolution	open => denied

Notes
(0008328) Nati46 (reporter) 2014-03-06 23:12 edited on: 2014-03-06 23:19	Asking for this to be removed is on the same scale of asking SR50 aliases to be removed - both of these do not give you a possibility to do something which is impossible otherwise, but are only a method which allow you to do it easier, utilizing zandronum features (the 'wait' command in particular) Its effectiveness is also not extreme; even in wide open maps it is often difficult to hit consistently, and in close ranges it does not overcome weapons such as the SSG/Plasma/RL. Similiarly to how old players have used traditional methods of sr50(and still do), many players are also competent at manual chain tapping and would not find this alias necessary. (The alias in question which capo is talking about is a modification of theshooter7's linked in the report, I will post it upon request if asked to)

(0008330) Popsoap (reporter) 2014-03-06 23:29 edited on: 2014-03-07 01:56	The chaingun is already a somewhat underpowered weapon. And most DM maps aren't large enough to make the exploit overpowered.

(0008331) Dusk (developer) 2014-03-07 00:56	And how exactly does one go around capping this behavior anyway? On the client or server-side? The server only recieves the attack commands and on the client-side.. prevent wait? that'd break a ton of things, prevent +attack and nobody can even fire a weapon. I think this is pretty much "unfixable".

(0008336) Dark-Assassin (administrator) 2014-03-07 05:08	This behaviour with the chaingun firing perfectly accurate for the first 2 shots are all the same spanning from Vanilla DOOM.EXE to the latest ZDoom. There isn't really anything you can do about it at all, unless you wish to make a patch wad that changes the chaingun to replace A_FireCGun to A_FirePistol (Same but no perfect accuracy thing) or the example code listed here:'http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_FireCGun [^]'

(0008354) Dark-Assassin (administrator) 2014-03-07 11:46	If it's really such a problem, I propose as an alternative, a compat flag to have chaingun not be perfectly accurate on the first 2 shots. But again, it's just as easily fixed with a wad, so it's probably not necessary. IDK the mechanics of ZDaemon, so it's not much use asking me. All I know is some things are different from Vanilla. From what I can tell, ZDoom tries to keep it's base mechanics close to vanilla as possible, mainly through use of compat flags.

(0008355) Nati46 (reporter) 2014-03-07 12:04 edited on: 2014-03-07 12:06	The only way to disallow this without hurting anything else would be a compatflag which enables/disables the 'wait' console command (which does not exist in zd anymore and was never implemented in odamex therefore it is impossible to make such an alias in those ports) Using a wad would need a hacky method - I dont think competitive people would like to remove chain tapping totally, but only the option to use an alias for it (Which the wait command allows) Also GJ capo for flaming as usual :)

(0008356) Dusk (developer) 2014-03-07 12:53 edited on: 2014-03-07 12:54	fuleco, please refrain from ad hominems. Your post has been deleted, try again.

(0008357) fuleco (reporter) 2014-03-07 13:21	Fuck you.

(0008358) Dusk (developer) 2014-03-07 13:44	Well I guess that answers that.

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