All Out War II: X -R8: Now with Rhinos, Lightning Troopers, and more!

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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Should destroying enemy buildings also deduct enemy tickets?

 
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Catastrophe
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All Out War II: X -R8: Now with Rhinos, Lightning Troopers, and more!

#1

Post by Catastrophe » Tue May 13, 2014 4:01 am

All out War II: X POLL #3 RESULTS CLICK HERE
(logo coming soon)
POLL #2 RESULTS CLICK HERE
Spoiler: mandatory screenshot (Open)
Image
This is a spin-off of the omega-2539 version of AoW II. The purpose of this wad is to fix balance issues and introduce new concepts slowly, and not as drastically. Every piece of feedback is considered.

Each and every change has an explanation as to why I did it. Hopefully that answers some questions.

All these changes can be revoked if the community wants to. You guys have a say in what needs to be added/removed/changed.

-=Team=-
Catastrophe - Lead
Dave - Tester
Dranzer - Tester
Elligitine - Bug finder
Ermac - Tester
Espio - Tester
Hibernia - Tester
Roman6a - Tester

-=Downloads=-
Core: http://www.[bad site]/download?file=aow2x_r8.pk3 | http://pastebin.com/DAUs3UNr
Maps: http://www.[bad site]/download?file= ... 8_maps.pk3 | http://pastebin.com/UyMk5uLh
Music: http://www.[bad site]/download?file= ... _music.pk3 | http://pastebin.com/EAi3Mcxe
Patch: -

-=Special Thanks=-
Dusk - For letting me branch off
Bloax - For moral support
Voltlock - For actually making all out war
Last edited by Catastrophe on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MrSetharoo
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#2

Post by MrSetharoo » Tue May 13, 2014 5:33 am

Looked through the change log and I like where this is going I also like the idea of the new classes. The flame swordsman seems like a great idea to take the fight to more personal space with the power of fire. Can't wait to give this a spin.

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#3

Post by Slim » Tue May 13, 2014 5:44 am

Something that makes AOW2 seem less lame? Must take a look sometime.
Image

"Your childish antics grow tiring. If you dare to fight me, then I accept your challenge: Anytime, anywhere." - Zero, Megaman X5
Spoiler: Quotes (Open)
5:54 PM - Slim: you're complaining about something so small that
5:54 PM - Lance: so? we do that all the time
5:55 PM - Lance: we're a bunch of losers complaining at a bar minus the bar
Spoiler: Galactus tried evading (Open)
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Lollipop
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#4

Post by Lollipop » Tue May 13, 2014 8:01 am

one day "I have lost interest in doom modding"

another day "fuck it, lets revive this shit and make it better than it have ever been!"

I am also wanting to give this a spin! :D
Spoiler: Modding Qualifications (Open)
ACS: If it's of ridiculous scope and of suicide-inducing complexity then it's the thing for me.
DECORATE: I can make more or less any godawful hack I need. Doesn't mean it works, though.
Maps: I only map for testing ACS.
GFX: Not enough time or experience.

If you need help, advice or similar, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
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Medicris
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#5

Post by Medicris » Tue May 13, 2014 8:10 am

Spoiler: Wall of text (Open)
Catastrophe wrote: ++ New menu selector system.
This was added because due to the current switch-style implementation, adding new classes, mechs, or research was far too tedious and required map editing. Now with this, I can easily add as many things as I want.
Not that I have anything against yours, but what was wrong with Dusk's in the original beta? I liked the font and layout.
Catastrophe wrote: + New Class, Mortarier.
Me and medicris were talking and agreed that it'd be nice to have a free class for all types of damage, this one being explosive. This is just a test to see whether it'd be balanced or not.
When I was talking about a free weapon of laser/explosive, I was thinking of having free classes come equipped with something else than an SMG or shotgun rather than cramming in more superfluous classes. Like a laser pistol for the engineer and technician, and a single-shot grenade launcher for utils. Something along those lines. Maybe make them simply purchaseable weapons to replace the pistol (which deserves an accuracy buff)
Catastrophe wrote: + New Class, Flame Swordsman.
As I started organizing classes by damage type, it turned out that there are no fire classes except for the flamer. This class is the second fire class (besides mechs) to ever be added. (Plus it's half melee, so that's fun too)
Eh... it fits in even less than the old Insanity crate. I wouldn't call this a Fire Emblem game or anything. I think fire is abundant enough as it is in the game from explosions, but hey. There could be a reworked tibrifle, and the "incendiary rifle" could work completely differently, like:
Tibrifle fires full auto, slower, heavier damage per hit (like original, see http://youtu.be/5f09vs6WNf8?t=26s )
Incrifle fires weaker shots in fast bursts, is cheaper

Also, if you want more melee action, why not replace the fists with a combat knife? One that can stab quickly and wide swing on altfire? Hell, why not have the ability to throw it like the chainsaw throw (which is broken in 2539, might wanna fix that)
Catastrophe wrote: + New Class, Scout.
This class was discussed in a server full of testers and agreed that it'd be an interesting class to have. You're basically trading power and the ability to pick items up in exchange for raw speed.
I was always under the assumption that gunmen and stealths were the designated fragile speedy classes. Stealths are already best at scouting since they're fast adn they can monitor things invisible, so... I don't really see what the point is.
Catastrophe wrote: + You can purchase a power-up crate for $3500 now
Also agreed during our discussion that there should be an end-game money drain. We came to this. Being able to buy a powerup crate for a ludicrous amount of money. Of course this is experimental, gonna see how it plays out.
Not a bad idea, but maybe we should take a look at why there aren't any other options for end-game money spending. Nukes/Ions? Mechs? Mechs will probably contribute to it since they're priced up now, and beacons as an end-game solution are hampered by their price and time/delay limits. I think that if you can't break INTO a building, having the option of sneaking in some people and planting multiple beacons from outside to take one down should be there.
Catastrophe wrote: + Destroying buildings no longer cuts you off from buying classes
This is another experimental feature to try countering snowballing. Though destroying the warfactory still cuts you off from mechs, and same with the research center.
Remember to be careful with this, as it goes both ways. Enemy team annoying you with snipers? Target their Barracks or Res Center to make them change tactics. Mechs? Hit their War Factory.

I think the root is which things get lost with each building rather than the effect itself. What if losing the Res Center just added a multiplier (1.25x or so) to purchases instead of knocking out all classes, and making the loss of a Barracks still leave some more options?
Catastrophe wrote: - Orca costs 300 more credits.
- Raven costs 150 more credits.
- Wolverine costs 250 more credits.
Buying cheap mechs and dying rather quickly had no penalty, so the prices of the lower tier mechs have been increased to compensate for their usefulness
I'm fine with this. Wolverine miniguns ought to be tweaked or something, though. Double firing rate but half damage? Or maybe act like the handheld minigun and have a small windup?
Catastrophe wrote: - Shock Trooper costs 200 more credits.
I usually hate nerfing things because it makes the game boring, so I just increased the price instead, the class was too good for it's previous price.
Agreed. It was on par with Plasma Troopers in every way long ago, if not more so.
Catastrophe wrote: - Artillery Cannon costs 50 less credits.
Artillery soldier was only 600 credits, while the cannon alone was 550, now the cannon is cheaper because it made no sense for it to be that expensive
I like it. I mean, 500$ is enough for a Rocket Soldier who has a rifle bundled too, so...
Catastrophe wrote: - Tiberium Autorifle damage increased from 9 to 11.
Weak weapon, we agreed it needed a buff.
See a few things above. Maybe it could be tweaked in other ways.
Catastrophe wrote: - Laser Chaingun damage increased from 4 to random(5, 6).
Again, weak weapon. We agreed it needed a small buff.
Catastrophe wrote: ! Rifle no longer takes two ammo per shot.
Finally.

Yeah, sorry for the wall of text. I'll try to be around for testing when I can.
For a long term goal, a move to all-centered or all-angled weapons would help first impressions and look nice to existing players.
Last edited by Medicris on Tue May 13, 2014 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Catastrophe
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#6

Post by Catastrophe » Tue May 13, 2014 1:09 pm

Spoiler: Bigger Wall of text (Open)

[quote=]
Not that I have anything against yours, but what was wrong with Dusk's in the original beta? I liked the font and layout.
[/quote]

Eh, I feel more comfortable making it myself, just a preference :p. Definitely not as good as dusks yet.

[quote=]
When I was talking about a free weapon of laser/explosive, I was thinking of having free classes come equipped with something else than an SMG or shotgun rather than cramming in more superfluous classes. Like a laser pistol for the engineer and technician, and a single-shot grenade launcher for utils. Something along those lines. Maybe make them simply purchaseable weapons to replace the pistol (which deserves an accuracy buff)
[/quote]
If you came to testing you'd know the weapon for this class is already a single-shot grenade launcher.


[quote=]
Eh... it fits in even less than the old Insanity crate. I wouldn't call this a Fire Emblem game or anything. I think fire is abundant enough as it is in the game from explosions, but hey. There could be a reworked tibrifle, and the "incendiary rifle" could work completely differently, like:
Tibrifle fires full auto, slower, heavier damage per hit (like original, see http://youtu.be/5f09vs6WNf8?t=26s )
Incrifle fires weaker shots in fast bursts, is cheaper
[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

[quote=]
Also, if you want more melee action, why not replace the fists with a combat knife? One that can stab quickly and wide swing on altfire? Hell, why not have the ability to throw it like the chainsaw throw (which is broken in 2539, might wanna fix that)
[/quote]

Imo, the knife should stay with stealth. Knocking people out is pretty fun to watch.

[quote=]
I was always under the assumption that gunmen and stealths were the designated fragile speedy classes. Stealths are already best at scouting since they're fast adn they can monitor things invisible, so... I don't really see what the point is.
[/quote]

To deliver C4's to the enemy base as fast as you can. (Or just be annoying because of your speed)

[quote=]
Not a bad idea, but maybe we should take a look at why there aren't any other options for end-game money spending. Nukes/Ions? Mechs? Mechs will probably contribute to it since they're priced up now, and beacons as an end-game solution are hampered by their price and time/delay limits. I think that if you can't break INTO a building, having the option of sneaking in some people and planting multiple beacons from outside to take one down should be there.
[/quote]

I don't count mechs because of the current ticket system, they're suicide to play as late-game. I'd like to address this sometime in the future.


[quote=]
Remember to be careful with this, as it goes both ways. Enemy team annoying you with snipers? Target their Barracks or Res Center to make them change tactics. Mechs? Hit their War Factory.

I think the root is which things get lost with each building rather than the effect itself. What if losing the Res Center just added a multiplier (1.25x or so) to purchases instead of knocking out all classes, and making the loss of a Barracks still leave some more options?
[/quote]

I really like that barracks idea. Though I think the multiplier should be attached to the barracks because if you lose the research center you are already cut off from getting health/ammo regen again.

[quote=]
I'm fine with this. Wolverine miniguns ought to be tweaked or something, though. Double firing rate but half damage? Or maybe act like the handheld minigun and have a small windup?
[/quote]

Hmmm, they are pretty strong but since I already upped the price I don't want to nerf it anymore.

[quote=]
For a long term goal, a move to all-centered or all-angled weapons would help first impressions and look nice to existing players.
[/quote]

It'd be a nice goal. Obviously we can't do it all in one go, we'd have to slowly start gathering sprites.
Last edited by Catastrophe on Tue May 13, 2014 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#7

Post by VoltlocK » Tue May 13, 2014 1:54 pm

14 is still too many :P as far as I can tell, the last couple days I've been playing AoW2 only like 3 maps were voted for and played repeatedly.

The whole snowballing thing is a difficult thing to work with I can imagine, but it's crazy how people in Renegade (the game I based AoW2 on) could still win a fight without a Barracks/HoN to give them access to higher tier chars. The points system also helped with this because paid-for classes awarded at least like 5x more points than killing a free class, and if the 'losing' team held out till the end of the match they'd basically end up winning because dying as a free class only awarded like 2 points as opposted to a 1000-class awarding 99-100 points. I suppose since I ended up adding Sudden Death instead it would make that system redundant.

Lollipop
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#8

Post by Lollipop » Tue May 13, 2014 1:54 pm

But which would you go for? Centered or angled? Which would be the best for this specific purpose?
Spoiler: Modding Qualifications (Open)
ACS: If it's of ridiculous scope and of suicide-inducing complexity then it's the thing for me.
DECORATE: I can make more or less any godawful hack I need. Doesn't mean it works, though.
Maps: I only map for testing ACS.
GFX: Not enough time or experience.

If you need help, advice or similar, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
Spoiler: My Current Projects (Open)
> ZMemory
> Various undeveloped ideas. (This one is an immutable fact)
Combinebobnt wrote:i can see the forum league is taking off much better than the ctf ones
GalactusToday at 1:07 PM
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#9

Post by MrSetharoo » Tue May 13, 2014 4:43 pm

Something that bugged me and is likely to be bugging others is in the class menu when you go back to the types coming from the classes the selector resets to the Bullet type. Nothing game breaking though in fact I like the new purchase terminals and the way the information is read to you. So far I'm extremely enjoying this mod.

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#10

Post by Catastrophe » Tue May 13, 2014 4:51 pm

Lollipop wrote: But which would you go for? Centered or angled? Which would be the best for this specific purpose?
Probably angled

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#11

Post by Theshooter7 » Wed May 14, 2014 9:15 am

I know all of this may be out of your concerns or goals with this, and that is all fine. But if you could hear out my suggestions on how I see AoW2 can be improved, I'd be at least thankful for that. This may all seem out of the blue too, but I believe I've never given any official standing on the mod and perhaps now may be the time to do so (lest I never say anything about it ever).

To start, I do like what you are doing and the changes seem like a nice step in balancing this awful mess of a mod. I agree with your modifications, although not having touched AoW in a long time. Despite this, and my appreciation for your efforts as well, I must say these things.

To be honest, it seems this mod suffered the same fate as Voltlock's previous mods. For example, RGA1 was simplistic, fun, and served its purpose. AoW1, while buggy and having a few exploits here or there, was great for its simplicity and how easy it was to jump right into. In line with this, RGA2 came out and, hideous sprite rips aside, was TONS of fun in its older betas, before all the perks, "classes", ranks, achievements, flair, and all that was added in. In fact, the TeamDM games with RGA2 back then were a blast. Maybe not the most balanced thing on the planet, but it was enjoyable no less. AoW2 was in the same boat. Though I didn't quite like AoW2 so much in its early versions (generally bad map design, horrible bugs, more hacks than the first version of WDI, lopsided balance, and just an overall change in mod direction), it at least had potential to improve. But as the versions progressed more and more and eventually the author abandoned it entirely, it stayed in its stale form with just a new coat of polish applied by new people.

With that aside, here are my core complaints. Mind you, I understand if these are out of your control and/or you don't wish to do anything about them. But as this thread is looking for community feedback, I feel I should give my general opinion anyway.

Popular or not, AoW2 has many problems, even with all the Omega updates and many other attempts at pushing the mod around. My first and probably biggest gripe will always and forever be the UI and presentation; there is sooooooo much stuff packed into this mod and so much information being thrown at you. With all the feature additions, things get out of hand and overwhelming, especially for inexperienced or new players. I mean, just take an immediate example: the screenshot in the OP. Just in that shot ALONE, I see 10 different clusters of information, presented by HudMessages, in text form which requires reading or at least glancing through. That's a lot of information to digest no matter how you slice it. There is little consistency, little structure to any of it. If I'm a new player hopping into the game for the first time to try it out (because it's so popular and the server is jam packed quite frequently, it seems like an attractive choice right?), I would be utterly overwhelmed by all that appearing on screen.

Now, I understand that all this shouldn't be spelled out for you from A to Z about your mod. This isn't some full on game and players can look up about it on the forums or whatever and try to learn things. In relation to my own things (to make it fair), even WDI has some learning curve to it and isn't 100% jump-in and play and know what you're doing. But there are some things WDI does to make the experience easier to grasp when starting out: for one, information is presented consistently, easily, and cleanly. At most (not counting the innocent tracking 'x' symbols that appear for the murderer), you have maybe 2 or 3 HudMessages on screen at most.

So my suggestion to help AoW in the UI and presentation aspect is to change it entirely. Try some if not all of the following:
  • Have your team's building health display on the left, and the enemy team's on the right. Change colors accordingly per team. This makes it so anyone playing just has to look to the left to know the status of their buildings, or to the right to know the status of their opponents
  • Fade out the building status messages when not in use. I suggest a threshold, maybe like 25% health, where the message will fade out. Below that and only then the message will stay on screen (since it's a bit more urgent that it's getting low). This gives the benefit of less clutter, while also giving you a subtle alert to when your base/building is taking damage by the sudden appearance of the building and its health on your Hud
  • Change some things to icons/graphics instead of just using Text all the time. I understand that this may take some work, but in the end it can be worth it. This is particularly important for the class selection (for example, instead of giving some pros/cons like you have in your screenshot, you can use a radar chart to demonstrate their stats in each area). This gives faster, easier to absorb information that is made immediately clear to the player. Obviously, to avoid clutter, this information should only be presented as graphics when necessary
  • Rank, Experience, and Credits could all easily become SBARINFO information, which would give the benefit of using things like Bar meters to indicate progress (for XP), or a gold/money image for credits. Although ACS can still of course be used. But one benefit of SBARINFO is a reduction in HudMessage use == less potential bandwidth consumption. In either case, get rid of the text.
  • Keep messages and groupings tight. By this example, say you want to announce that a building is under attack, and at the same time that x player got something from a powerup crate. You could display both of these centered and near the bottom of the screen. Not in the exact same position obviously, but close enough so that the player only need look down to see these events, and they are all viewable in the same general area
I know that's quite a list. These are just my suggestions to get a start on helping AoW2 actually improve. I'll refrain from commenting on gameplay for the time being because I've been out of the loop on the mod for some time and can't quite recall how it plays too well, along with the changes you've made that may improve it somewhat to begin with. I'll post again sometime perhaps after I give it a go, although with what I've mentioned about the UI, I currently have no plans to even try considering the sheer overload of text that I'm assaulted with every time I load the mod up and join a server.
Image

Catastrophe
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#12

Post by Catastrophe » Thu May 15, 2014 3:55 am

TS7 - I've read you post, while I do agree this mod needs to be more newbie friendly, I don't think those are the way to go.

In other news patch 6 is out, this being a big optimization update that removes a bunch of pointless smoke and fire effects to give an easier time to our players with weak computers. Yes some things will look a little odd, nevertheless I'd rather have smooth fps anyways.

Code: Select all

++ As requested, many effects such fire and smoke has been toned down to help people with weaker computers.
- Flame Sword melee total melee damage increased from 75 to 100
- Flame Sword projectile damage buffed from 7 to 10.
! Disarm crate should take away the new classes weapons
! Skins fixed
! The menu doesnt bug out if you buy add-ons really fast now
! Manual grenadelauncher pickup sprite adjusted so it doesn't sink into the ground
! Madcat should no longer disappear when ejected
! You no longer randomly freeze when spawning
Get it here: http://static.[bad site]/wads/aow2x_r5_patch6.pk3

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#13

Post by Conmon » Thu May 15, 2014 4:19 am

I don't know why, but I laughed for about five minutes straight at the "mandatory screenshot" pic.
Last edited by Conmon on Thu May 15, 2014 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#14

Post by Catastrophe » Fri May 16, 2014 2:36 am

Hey, I'm going to be adding some new sudden death songs, any suggestions?

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#15

Post by MrSetharoo » Fri May 16, 2014 3:15 am

Catastrophe wrote: Hey, I'm going to be adding some new sudden death songs, any suggestions?
Are you looking for anything or rips from games? I know of a soundcloud that has some awesome sounding covers from random games that are very "actiony" sounding if you're looking for that

For shits n' giggles can I suggest You Got the Touch by Stan Bush?

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#16

Post by VoltlocK » Fri May 16, 2014 5:01 am

Catastrophe wrote: Hey, I'm going to be adding some new sudden death songs, any suggestions?
Full Stop, Frank Klepacki (from C&C Dawn)

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#17

Post by Dusk » Fri May 16, 2014 11:11 am

Catastrophe wrote: Hey, I'm going to be adding some new sudden death songs, any suggestions?
[spoiler]
phpBB [video]
The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag
[/spoiler]

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#18

Post by uggi121 » Fri May 16, 2014 2:14 pm

Another suggestion, try using a track like hell march II to be played for a small while when you get domination/ total domination etc.It mostly goes unnoticed
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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#19

Post by Espio » Fri May 16, 2014 3:08 pm

[spoiler]
phpBB [video]
The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
phpBB [video]
The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag
[/spoiler]

Both probably don't fit but just a suggestion.
Image
http://youtu.be/qbgpcemxVPA?t=8s "Get the fuck up."
https://www.mediafire.com/?kb7sf1nizgwvqsr My custom music wad for Doom I & II - 166 MEG WARNING

(09:58:54)<BlueCool>think of all the stuff i couldve done in thoes 5 second
(09:59:05)<BlueCool>1. bake cookies
(09:59:16)<BlueCool>2. eat cookies

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RE: All Out War II: X -v5

#20

Post by Catastrophe » Fri May 16, 2014 9:37 pm

Definitely adding some of these, thanks for the suggestions guys!

Now the next question, if you would want something new added to the research center, what would it be?

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