All Out War II: X -R8: Now with Rhinos, Lightning Troopers, and more!

[k4r4t3k4n4k4s]

Thanks for the add-ons so far

Please relocate menu items in order that they are frequently bought. On research menu place c4 in the top. The regular researches you only buy once except for caches.

Menu items could even disappear or be greyed out when you can't buy them.

On small menus like war factory sub menus are not needed.

There is some bug with fire (after destroying turrets). Sprite disappears before light effect (gl) and damage does.

I'd vote for a re-review of maps in new map pack since frequently played maps of recent age are missing. Suggestion is to include new map packs and review which maps are played through server logs (then again you can by all means scrap AOW66, old renegade map, for all eternity).

[Zoido]

(then again you can by all means scrap AOW66, old renegade map, for all eternity).

AOW66 is a very small map and good for e.g. quick duels or submachine practice. I strongly suggest to keep it, but remove 'Sniper' class.

I was never a friend of these selection menus. You can't see on F12 what people do and I'm sure people new to AOW will have their problems. Are the people AFK or are they just lost in the menus? Also, it is very annoying that you have to restart the menus several times if you want to buy several things. As k4 said I don't think we need submenus in WF (and probably not in 'research' as well).

What is the military purpose of 'barracks'? Isn't it for training people there or something? If you do not have a 'barracks' should you be able to get certain player classes? Is there any reason left now why the 'barracks' building should not be removed from all maps? This would probably make some matches shorter as there would be one building less to destroy/defend/util.

As k4 says we need the mappack maps.

Some GV server forces AFK people to spectate after 10 mins inactivity. Can we have this feature on all servers? Or even reduce to 5 mins? Shouldn't people be able to know in advance if they can play for an hour without eating or longer toilet breaks?

[Ijon Tichy]

You can't see on F12 what people do and I'm sure people new to AOW will have their problems.

AOW2 is confusing as hell for new-timers anyway.

Are the people AFK or are they just lost in the menus? Also, it is very annoying that you have to restart the menus several times if you want to buy several things.

First one can be addressed with a sound on cursor movement or item selection, and the second one I can't imagine would be all that hard (don't leave the menu if you're not buying a class, super difficult).

As k4 said I don't think we need submenus in WF (and probably not in 'research' as well).

The entire point of the sub-menus is to make more consistent and more maintainable the system you buy stuff through, and while the current menu is bleh, it's still better than the switch hunt of r2549 (which wasn't even consistent between maps), and much easier to add or remove things from to or from. You don't need to go into every single map and work another button into it or make current buttons have "broken circuits" or some bullcrap. For those reasons, I have no doubt it'll stay.

[Catastrophe]

Please relocate menu items in order that they are frequently bought. On research menu place c4 in the top. The regular researches you only buy once except for caches.

I will add a previously purchased option once I start working on another menu update.

Menu items could even disappear or be greyed out when you can't buy them.

Greying them out should be easy if you don't have enough credits, I'll give it a go once I do the above.

On small menus like war factory sub menus are not needed.

*cough* new mech *cough*

There is some bug with fire (after destroying turrets). Sprite disappears before light effect (gl) and damage does.

If possible can you give me a screenshot?

I was never a friend of these selection menus. You can't see on F12 what people do and I'm sure people new to AOW will have their problems. Are the people AFK or are they just lost in the menus? Also, it is very annoying that you have to restart the menus several times if you want to buy several things. As k4 said I don't think we need submenus in WF (and probably not in 'research' as well).

Yes you do to add new classes, I am not willing to go over 20+ maps and manually redo every single switch.

Plus we have new stuff coming in so the menu is necessary.

What is the military purpose of 'barracks'? Isn't it for training people there or something? If you do not have a 'barracks' should you be able to get certain player classes? Is there any reason left now why the 'barracks' building should not be removed from all maps? This would probably make some matches shorter as there would be one building less to destroy/defend/util.

I really hate it when a game snowballs, so to deter that you no longer lose classes when a building gets destroyed. Although you will lose access to refining, mechs, and research if those buildings get destroyed. As far as Barracks goes, medicris suggested that the price of classes should be increased by 25% or something if it gets destroyed. So that sounded good.

Some GV server forces AFK people to spectate after 10 mins inactivity. Can we have this feature on all servers? Or even reduce to 5 mins? Shouldn't people be able to know in advance if they can play for an hour without eating or longer toilet breaks?

It's the server, I'll have to turn on that afk2spec dmflag on.

[k4r4t3k4n4k4s]

Just hold the fine balance between easy to maintain and easy to play. And the emphasis should be on the latter. And also think about what's there now and not what might be. If WF sub menus aren't needed now they shouldn't be there since it makes menu less efficient.

And efficiency is my main concern about menu. If you make it more efficient (quicker and more coherent to make choices) than switch hunting then I'm all for it. But at the moment that is not the case. Best thing I can think of there is to make menu choices numbered so you for example select 1 for bullet and then 1 again for sub machinegun and you're done.

Two screenshots on flame bug:
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]


No flame sprite but light is there and you get damaged by it. This is for a few seconds after flame sprite disappears.

You haven't written about it in changelog but to me it appears that Artillery and perhaps Gauss has less damage or it's timing has changed. Is that true? Right now laser chaingun has become more efficient than both these weapons.

I'm also a bit concerned by the ambition to prohibit snowballing. I'd say that snowballing is a big part of the fun of the game. You work your way, refining, gaining exp, destroying the right buildings, so that you can actually win. And the game is most fun when you either have that advantage or manage to turn the game around to your advantage from a bad situation. I mean the strategy part of the game is that you don't let the other team gain that advantage. That's not a fault of game that's a fault of strategy.

Example: let the other team have their mini ref while you have not and later get raped by mech rushes and suiciders. If the other team has managed to get so much cash to spread around your team have failed in strategy.

[Catastrophe]

Alright, R6 is released here's the changelog:


LEGEND:
++ Major Change
+ New Content
! Bugfix
- Balance

Code: Select all

R6
++ Added some changes to make this 64 player compatible, hopefully goes well.

+ New Mech, Jaguar.
Due to a lot of people using wolverines and whatnot, this mech is a direct counter to it. It is made for fighting other mechs and is ineffective against infantry. Heavy mechs will destroy this mech as well.

+ New Research, advanced timed C4.
This makes C4's explode 10 seconds earlier than normal. This is so that people have an easier time destroying buildings.

+ Tiberium Autorifle has an altfire now that reloads the weapon.
It's annoying having to fire the tib rifle a bunch of times just to reload it, so now with one press of a button it will reload back to full, with a small delay.

+ Pressing left wont set the currently selected option to the top, it saves what you picked.

- Repair/Disarm rates nerfed.
This was done because a mech will not die if a technician is following it, and buildings rarely get destroyed on big games before sudden death. So hopefully it speeds up games.

- Proxy C4's take more damage to lasers.
This was changed because disarming proxy c4's take way too long. By the time you disarm one, there are two more to take its' place. So infiltration will be much more fun for players.

- Grenade Launcher altfire more bouncy.

- Health/Ammo regen Caches have less hp from 10,000 to 6,500.
These caches had almost as much HP as the repair facility, so now if you can't destroy buildings, you can at least destroy their caches with 4 timed c4's.

- Timed C4 is now less noisy.
BEEP BEEP BEEP I AM HERE PLZ DISARM ME. Nope, infiltration is more stealthy now.

- Wolverine Costs 150 more credits.
I hate nerfing stuff so it just costs more money. Wolverine is simply too good for its' price.

- Invisible mines are no longer invisible, and can be destroyed by anything now and don't respawn.
Random invisible mines in the mid that randomly damage you are fucking annoying. Have fun destroying them.

- Laser Chaingunner damage nerfed from random(5, 6) to 5.
Overpowered, the reason I didn't simply increase it's price is because it is one of the few mid-priced laser weapons and I want to keep it like that.

! Buying addons and research upgrades doesn't close the menu anymore.
! mortarier cannot fire in spawn rooms anymore
! timecop cannot altfire in spawn rooms anymore
! Hopefully fixed fire not staying long enough.
! Can't buy any addons with suicide bomber now
! Hopefully fixed sudden death tickets disappearing finally.
! aow_c4delay should work properly now.
! Aow_c4delay should properly default to two minutes now.
! Hopefully fixed building health display text being overlapped with each other.
! You can sell the manual grenadelauncher back now.
! Plasma Cannon ammo is not given from backpacks anymore.
! Powerupcrate cannot be refunded after usage anymore.
! Tiberium effects aren't fire effects anymore.
! Artillery cannon doesn't spawn fire again.
! Chemical corpses shouldn't lag anymore.

R6 Maps
+ aow02 added side paths to both bases.
The map dragged a lot, more ways to infiltrate.

+ aow03 top area of the map is accessible.
Same as above.

+ aow05 added a new way to enter the enemy base.
See above.

- aow02 moved around the blue obelisk and repair facility to match red's.
More consistency.

! aow05 should be a little less laggy.
! aow02 removed some random homs.
! aow14 roof of research center is now unaccessable.
! aow13 skybox fixed

R6 Music
++ A lot of songs compressed.
+ New sudden death song.
+ New intermission song.
! Aow11, aow12, and aow13 music fixed.
! Sudden death song works now.

Core: http://www.[bad site]/download?file=aow2x_r6.pk3
Maps: http://www.[bad site]/download?file= ... 6_maps.pk3
Music: http://www.[bad site]/download?file= ... _music.pk3

[arghghg]

Resigning seems to give at most $1 back. Is this a bug?

The sudden death ticket counts overlap with the blue/red team scores when on the second largest screen size in the HUD options.

I don't know if it's just me, but flames still seem to hurt you and make noise for a while, even after the graphical effect is gone.

[MrSetharoo]

"All Out War II: X -R6: Now with Jaguars"

Not sure why but all I thought of was giant Atari Jaguars as new mechs....

[Catastrophe]

Resigning seems to give at most $1 back. Is this a bug?

The sudden death ticket counts overlap with the blue/red team scores when on the second largest screen size in the HUD options.

I don't know if it's just me, but flames still seem to hurt you and make noise for a while, even after the graphical effect is gone.

Looking into these, will be deploying a hotfix today.

[k4r4t3k4n4k4s]

Good work with the lives update.

New mech seems promising. Would have liked it able to strafe though. Also I don't think classes or mechs should be "single use". Would have liked one of its weapon to be infantry targeted (in old versions i used Titan to snipe infantry with arty cannon :) ).

Buying c4 exits menu so you can't buy 4 in a row unless re-entering menu 4 times.

Regens showed 153% health when I joined an ongoing game.

Lives resets to 0-0 whenever a building is destroyed, but updates after a short while.

Please move demo expert to explosives sub menu rather than support.

I'd rather see you switched location of red ob instead of adding side tunnel. AOW02 is one map that is still hard infiltrating and therefore more rewarding when you are successful. New tunnel I'd say makes it too easy.

20 sec C4 is interesting but people really need to re-learn the new sounds.

Do you think you can do something showing peeps when they lose lives for team? especially with mechs. Noobs never get that.

[Konda]

Please move demo expert to explosives sub menu rather than support.

I was thinking of suggesting to put the demo expert in both menus. I am not sure if it's a good idea, since I don't know the path this project is going to take (i.e. to add more classes - if that were the case, having class repetitions in menus would make the menus too big).

[Catastrophe]

Ok, deployed a small hotfix patch. (hopefully fixes the lives issue, have not tested in a live game yet.)

Code: Select all

LEGEND:
++ Major Change
+ New Content
! Bugfix
- Balance

R6 patch 1
! hp / ammo regen display fixed.
! Jaguar hp exploit fixed.
! Research menu will not close when you buy something for real this time
! refunding works properly now
! Made the spacing between blue and red teams less wide so it will take up less space
! hopefully fixed lives bug

[Suiseiseki]

Okay so I found these next change suggestions so necessary that I actually bothered to sign up into the forum and use my first post here. So please do not ignore them simply because you 'dislike nerfing'.

First up, I said that the 'Utility guy exploit' (The ability to refill his own c4 anywhere and throw them infinitely) should be removed, and was challenged to prove how unfair this is by you by successfully bombing buildings regularly with the builder class. (Which kind of pissed me off because then you went on to say that you'd probably ignore it anyways even I proved myself right by doing something I obviously think is immoral.) Anyways, shortly after this exchange, and you left the server. A match began in which a player used this exploit early on within the match, this player successfully destroyed all of the other team's buildings almost by himself via planting portals inside or near enemy buildings and then c4 spamming the crap out of each building.

With the portals so close, this also allowed allied troops to swarm in constantly, making defending near impossible for the other team. In the chaos, the utility guy had weaving in and out and bombing every single building. To add insult to injury, he also planted mines all over the inside of the enemy buildings. Pics: http://imgur.com/a/vkfiJ

It doesn't matter that he's slow. It doesn't matter that he can't turn invisible. Builder class has way more offensive potential than all the other classes by far, even timecop, a class that costs 2k, notifies everyone when bought, and has the ability to randomly teleport into the enemy's base. Nerf, this, class. and yes, this happens regularly, it's becoming common now for players to utility rush the enemy base near the beginning of the game, and it usually works.Also, yes, I'm not the only person that hates this, most other people hate this. Want to know how I know? Because when that player bombed blue team, a server of 10 players (not counting specs) suddenly dropped to a server of no players. The enemy team all ragequit and no more rounds were played after that, and it's fairly common for the victimized team to ragequit when multiple buildings suddenly explode because a utility guy drowned them in like 20 c4 within the first eight minutes of the round.

The new Mech:
Onto another topic, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that was disappointed when I saw "now with 'Jaguars'". and found out that the "Jaguar" is just a slow ass pigcop tank. Since 3 of the mechs are direct rips from Mech assault, I'm pretty sure most people expected this http://imgur.com/hFUa3TJ badass mofo right here. You know.. the actual light mech that's fast and kicks a lot of ass, kind of like the animal it's named after. The tank itself isn't functionally bad, it has a place. Just.. rename it or something, and you could at the VERY least remove the damn Duke Nukem logo from its back. If you send me the sprite file I'll do it myself. Seriously.

As for classes:
There was another mod some time back that introduced the "Combustion rifle" (tiberium rifle that's redone to shoot fire, both guns having an alt fire that spread shots their magazine like a shotty) and another class that had a crossbow-type weapon that does flak damage. That might be worth looking into, would be neat to see those classes in the game.

Flamesword I think needs a buff, it feels rather underpowered for a 900 credit weapon, I usually found the smg far more reliable unless at super close range, and even then, most other weapons outdamage the sword by far unless you melee the other player directly, getting that close without dying is no easy task. Super shotty would be a far more reliable CQC weapon in almost all aspects.

Possible bug:
Last thing I'd like to point out is a possible bug. I noticed in recent games that players have been getting cash at the start of the game faster than it should be possible. (I.E. a timecop in field within the first minute of the game, people sporting snipers and laser chainguns while everyone else had just picked free classes because they only have like 400 cash at the time) I think it might need looking into.

Sorry to get long winded there, but I think these all are worth heavy consideration. Those of you who also dislike the utility exploit I implore you to speak up now.

[Catastrophe]

I was there aliasing that game, the reason that happened was because the enemy team had no defense whatsoever so it was prone to attacks like these. On top of that none of them thought to go demolition expert and just destroy the portal immediately. If they had an actual builder, this would not have happened.

However, I do think it's bullshit that you can place mines so far away from your base. I will be adding the same limitation that turrets have where you can't place mines too far from your base. They're supposed to be for defense, not offense.

The reason people left was because it was nearing midnight, and at that time typically nobody is really on. Yes, I stay up till 3am sometimes and trust me nobody plays all out war past midnight.

Oh shit I never realized that mech assault had a mech called jaguar. Will be renaming.

I dunno if new classes is something people still want, we have a lot as it is. Though I do agree there needs to be more fire classes.

Noted, will be looking into that bug.

[Suiseiseki]

The match ended with 1 against 5 (5 being the winning team), that was rage quitting, not people leaving because of the time.
One player called it griefing and tried to votekick me because he thought I was the utility guy.

and even so, one guy defeated a team of five almost singlehandedly, they may not have been experienced with aow, and constantly getting buildings blown up within the first ten minutes of the match by a utility guy is definitely not going to help new players to aow stick around. Utility does have a ridiculous amount of power and can put up defenses relatively quick, I didn't even get into the part where utility can turret troll some maps, and the amount of money that goes into making utility guy so powerful is actually not as hard to come by as people try to make it sound.

but if class inflation is becoming an issue, I'd throw my vote in for the combustion rifle at least, an easy to make fire counterpart to the tiberium gunner. Also that shotty altfire would make it more interesting to play, might actually see people using tiberium gun for once if it had that. (Also I think we're missing a free class in the laser category, dunno what you have planned for that, but you're probably already aware of it by now anyways)

[Catastrophe]

Yep, free classes for reach category is on the to-do list.

[k4r4t3k4n4k4s]

I dislike the "meant to be" reasoning because the top pro of AOW2 is the flexibility and ability to creatively use the available classes in ways that dev's haven't even imagined. So please refrain from limiting possibilities like placement of mines. If you want to play offensive builder then you should be able to do so.

Secondly if a team lets an enemy into the base they should be screwed. That puts focus on the health of base and not on death match.

What's the c4 limit on now btw? wasn't it set to 5 minutes to prevent this.

[Catastrophe]

I dislike the "meant to be" reasoning because the top pro of AOW2 is the flexibility and ability to creatively use the available classes in ways that dev's haven't even imagined. So please refrain from limiting possibilities like placement of mines. If you want to play offensive builder then you should be able to do so.

Secondly if a team lets an enemy into the base they should be screwed. That puts focus on the health of base and not on death match.

What's the c4 limit on now btw? wasn't it set to 5 minutes to prevent this.

Up to the server, on the [BE] one I set it to 0. Can change it to 2 if you guys want.

[Suiseiseki]

Back to report another bug.

Timecop can no longer randomly teleport into the enemy base. Tested this a night ago, 20 attempts to use teleport and all returned to the allied base. I'd also recommend buffing the burst attack the timegun has, it's extremely weak as a fighting tool, it seems to ignore armor, which is nice, but even then, it's extremely weak and just about any other weapon, sans the pistol or fists, would be more reliable.

Also after some damage testing with Anonymous for various guns, Tiberium autorifle might need to be buffed again, an armorless class can survive a full blast of six shots directly into them without perishing WITH the firepower upgrade. So under normal circumstances, it's assumed that a player with no armor whatsoever can survive up to 12 direct hits with the projectiles.

[Catastrophe]

Back to report another bug.

Timecop can no longer randomly teleport into the enemy base. Tested this a night ago, 20 attempts to use teleport and all returned to the allied base. I'd also recommend buffing the burst attack the timegun has, it's extremely weak as a fighting tool, it seems to ignore armor, which is nice, but even then, it's extremely weak and just about any other weapon, sans the pistol or fists, would be more reliable.

Also after some damage testing with Anonymous for various guns, Tiberium autorifle might need to be buffed again, an armorless class can survive a full blast of six shots directly into them without perishing WITH the firepower upgrade. So under normal circumstances, it's assumed that a player with no armor whatsoever can survive up to 12 direct hits with the projectiles.

Alright due to a lot of people complaining I'll revert the timecop change that allowed him to teleport to the enemy base.

As for the burst, I made one small buff to it to help him infiltrate bases so I wanna see how that plays out first before I buff the damage.

All 6 shots and still couldn't kill a gunman? Alright probably gonna buff.