Major Best Ever moderation change

[Galactus]

Dumb

We need to build a wall, keep them filthy clanners out of zandronum #Makezandronumgreatagain

[ZZYZX]

While I understand my proposal might seem extreme to some at first, it would improve user experience for all forum members and actually give clan members greater freedom than they currently exercise.

Are you sure that others want such freedom? Ingame, the most generic argument (including non-competitive stuff) is "shut up, you're bad at this game, you can't say anything good". Here, the rules forbid that.
You want to have it in half of the forums and call it freedom? #freekillstrike

[Konda]

While I understand my proposal might seem extreme to some at first, it would improve user experience for all forum members and actually give clan members greater freedom than they currently exercise.

Are you sure that others want such freedom? Ingame, the most generic argument is "shut up, you're bad at this game, you can't say anything good". You want to have that in half of the forums and call it freedom?

Technically that would be up for the "clan mods" to decide as they see fit, according to his master plan. Kind of something less strict than the current rules but still regulated to a certain degree, depending on what the clan mods agree on. So yea, if they want to harbor such mentality, let 'em do it, but the rest of the community won't have any of that. The clan jews would be able to have (regulated) drama freely while the aryans would enjoy their peaceful forums

[scroton]

what you suggest is pretty much a "prison" section of the forums, where certain people are hounded and sometimes (if they're lucky!!) given a get out of jail card?

Comparing the clan sub forums in my proposal to a prison is simply not accurate.

Non clan members posting in the clan sub forums would be subject to moderator action from the Clan Moderation Team.

As outlined in a previous post, clan members could also leave the clan they are in, and if they do not join another clan for a 3 year period, post on the non clan sub forum without the need for a pass or per-post moderator approval.

You know, you also remind me of a certain player named "dart" :O

I don't know who that is.

Ummm, again. What are these passes? A pass for freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech does not apply to private websites. Putting my proposals into place is well within the right of the site owner.

The passes facilitate clan members capable of constructive contribution to the community to constructively contribute to the community.

I only see 3 or maybe 4 people who constantly post vulgarly on the forums who are from a clan.

I respect your beliefs but I do not believe your observations are congruent with reality.

Hell, we should make BE only for clans in that case because the host is a clan member just to despise you.

As demonstrated in this thread, Jenova would be well within his right to do so. If that were his decision, I would respect it.

It's the one you asked for. You come here, knowing nothing about clans, blaming that clans should be refrained from posting widely because "FUCK YOU, YOU ARE IN A CLAN" only because you see drama and immediately thought to yourself "Hey, it must be the clans that cause this shit, let's punish all the people, even the majority who aren't even involved in this drama, because you are in a clan".

This is that same toxic mentality I pointed out earlier. This is unproductive.

Ahem. I've been banned/suspended from the forums at least 5 times and masterbanned from the game twice during the 10 years I've been in this community, and I've never been in a clan unless you count =RaVeN=, which I don't because it was basically just a fraternity of modders and furries. We only scrimmed maybe 5 times that I remember, and that was in the earliest years of the clan. The last time I wore the tag was probably 2008.

As per my original proposal, you fit into the criteria of being counted as a clan member. This information only strengthens my position.

WTF? Refer to my first response. How have I demonstrated "exceedingly poor judgement in joining a clan" when the first and last time I joined one was 2006? I did have a lot of fun in that clan, btw. Those were the days of BD, HAX, and SNS6, and the members of those clans were all pretty much friends with each other from what I remember.

Regardless of the circumstances surrounding your joining a clan, or how long ago you joined, it still illustrates a lack of judgement.

Note that under the revised proposal, since you have not been in a clan for a period spanning three years or more, you would no longer be considered a clan member.

A tl;dr summary of Scroton's posts:

When clans send their people over the border into the Zandronum forums, they're not sending their best. They're bringing drama, they're bringing hacks, they're starting flame wars. We need to build a wall.

The idea of building a physical wall to solve issues on an internet forum is laughable at best. Please be serious if you're going to participate in this conversation.

Technically that would be up for the "clan mods" to decide as they see fit, according to his master plan. Kind of something less strict than the current rules but still regulated to a certain degree, depending on what the clan mods agree on. So yea, if they want to harbor such mentality, let 'em do it, but the rest of the community won't have any of that. The clan jews would be able to have (regulated) drama freely while the aryans would enjoy their peaceful forums

While these aren't the exact words I would have used, you have summarized this part of my proposal beautifully. Thank you, Konda.

[Marcaek]

Why are you guys biting on this?

[mifu]

Alright ya all need to calm the fuck down, and stop posting in this thread for a few.

Sorry i did not post quick enough. Work made sure I wouldn't be able to check this out. Anyways Staff and I have been chatting about this for a long time during the course of this.

Lets state the facts first before I get into it.

First mobius was banned for a long time by previous administration. As pointed out by Razgriz a few pages ago his ban was brought up. We decided the right thing to do would to give him a clean slate as he has been banned for a while. Before people mention that was a stupid move, we knew full well some people here wont like it but unfortunately mobius had not really had it fair by our previous administration and we felt it was the right thing to do in order to stabilize the relationship between community and staff. Hes been fine on the forums ever since that ban was lifted. We do acknowledge that an incident occurred when AVC decided to start on Razgriz on IRC. While we do agree it could of been handled better note that mobius did get banned from #zandronum and punishment was served.

The kicker is Jenova disagreed with the punishment advising mobius has not changed and it should of been a perm. I was not in #staff at the time but I was advised it resulted Jenova being removed from #staff also. I was also advised drama has ensued in #A3 etc then this thread happened. That's a tl;dr version of it.

Essentially what Jenova wants is for me to ban mobius, forever under the pretext that he has not changed one bit because of this one incident.

The staff position is we know that the core of the issue is on how we handle punishments so we will be working on revamping rules, punishments, ban times etc in the next few days. As for perma banning mobius *RIGHT NOW* we are not going to. We simply do not see why his recent incident warrants it as he is already been punished. I did mention next time he plays up and if any other repeat offenders do, its a perma ban. Thats our stance and it wont change. Note perma bans is something the community wanted us to get rid of a while back and we did, now its back.

Now for this thread. It went places, that it should of not went to. Almost all of you are archviles because what we see here is past and bad blood. Almost like I am in a time warp. This thread is not an example to get the staff to change or to do something you want. This thread is an example of a huge shit fest that never ever needed to occur. While both parties brought up good points, this thread is nothing more then a "he said she said" bullshit argument. Also with the fact that BE seems like it was used a bit of a leverage. Jenova probably could of handled this better instead of nuking this cluster but in the end, its up to him. I am not going to punish Jen or mobius for this thread but we do not want to see another thread or stunt pulled like this ever again. Anymore shit like this will get shut down alot faster and I promise that. If you have a legit concern post a topic by all means, but dont let this thread be an example. Calling staff retards or flaming them does not help either.

During this course of time, we also identified that we could use more staff that hail from the competitive scene as there are concerns of bias and hardly anyone well versed in the competitive scene thats in staff currently. If we can get one from every group/clan it should hopefully make things slightly equal when it comes to decision making. As a decision from me, I am also going to also appoint more people to have essentially admin status also in case I am not around when decisions need to be made. I feel this is part of the problem also.

Now time to address some stupid shit thats made this whole thread worse.

I believe I have a solution for the issues the Zandronum community faces:

1) Create separate but equal copies of all sub forums for general clan members--"Clan Projects", "Clan Editing", "Clan General" and so forth.

2) Make it so that all forum members that are currently in clans or have been in clans at any point in the past are only able to post in these clan sub forums. Make exceptions for bug reports and other such things which assist development of Zandronum. For the sake of organizing events, allow non-clan forum members to post in the clan sub forums.

3) Remove any and all forum Admins and Moderators which are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from their positions and put them in charge of moderating the clan sub forums. Allow them autonomy in appointing new clan moderators from clan forum members.

4) G-line all IRC users that are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from the main Zandronum IRC channels, such as #zandronum. Leave other IRC channels as-is.

I believe these changes will improve user experience for the entire zandronum community as it will mean that non clan members will be able to post about zandronum and zandronum projects, and clan members will be free to post about clans and clan feuds without interruption from moderation.

Thank you for your time.

Stop trolling, your making this thread even shittier.

Also, people who are fighting each other or are just posting for the sake of adding more fuel to the fire (Especially you JZ since you seem like you need to do exactly this every time) need to stop posting for a few and look at what the hell is wrong with this thread.

As for BE that appears to be gone, not sure what Jenova is up to now but he is welcome to return if he wants. It is up to him of course.

Anyways, time to stop posting in this thread now. It's gone to shit. We will archive this thread rather then trashing it though, as a reminder to all what has been done based on staff decisions so we can point to it if someone wants us to change again. Also archiving it as a reminder that this thread is not an example of how shit should go around here.

[TerminusEst13]

Shut the fuck up, Scroton.