Major Best Ever moderation change

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#121

Post by ZZYZX » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:55 am

You seem to know a lot about clans. You seem to know a lot of clanless people suitable for the freed positions too.
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#122

Post by Kara Kurt » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:33 am

scroton wrote:I believe I have a solution for the issues the Zandronum community faces:

1) Create separate but equal copies of all sub forums for general clan members--"Clan Projects", "Clan Editing", "Clan General" and so forth.

2) Make it so that all forum members that are currently in clans or have been in clans at any point in the past are only able to post in these clan sub forums. Make exceptions for bug reports and other such things which assist development of Zandronum. For the sake of organizing events, allow non-clan forum members to post in the clan sub forums.

3) Remove any and all forum Admins and Moderators which are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from their positions and put them in charge of moderating the clan sub forums. Allow them autonomy in appointing new clan moderators from clan forum members.

4) G-line all IRC users that are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from the main Zandronum IRC channels, such as #zandronum. Leave other IRC channels as-is.

I believe these changes will improve user experience for the entire zandronum community as it will mean that non clan members will be able to post about zandronum and zandronum projects, and clan members will be free to post about clans and clan feuds without interruption from moderation.

Thank you for your time.
I'm not sure if serious or...
Konda wrote:TL;DR Zandronum competition was cancer
Shouldn't have let the drama affect BE. Also, what was up with that "No fun allowed" at the top of the forums? Was that also influenced by drama?
Good job spitting on what also contributes in making Zandro a non-coop-only port.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#123

Post by Erma » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:35 am

I'd just like to say that I'm not exactly surprised that this happened. Jenova had a lot on his mind, along with BE on his hands. I can only imagine he had little free time for himself. Studies, the best ever servers, literally and his own hobbies... maybe even a job along with it (With this, I do not mean that it's unlikely for Jenova to have a job...). And right before the point the bucket was going to overflow, it just had to do so.

I'd like to appreciate Jenova's work for BE. Many times have I asked him, or wata, or fused, for help about certain situations about my own server. All of them have taught me well and I could only be ever so grateful for their given support. This has helped me build a puny, but fun community that is "my server". In which case: Thanks for everything and I hope everything gets settled soonly.

Why do all good things come to an end? :/
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#124

Post by HTG » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:35 pm

Edit: fell for it gg
Last edited by HTG on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#125

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:36 pm

Lol. Oh Karakurt, that post is obvious troll bait. But good on you to not fall for it.

Besides, the issue isn't entirely about clans or competition being at fault. There are plenty of clans who don't get involved in shit and there are plenty of coop and mod based clans with no hand in competition. The issue at hand is how someone literally punishes the community because he didn't get his way on the forums or IRC.

I completely agree with AlexMax when we discussed that the Zandro community isn't IRC and isn't the forums. The community is all of those 100-200+ players playing everyday minding their own business. 90% probably don't even read the forums and wouldn't even use IRC if it wasn't for BE. Jenova has repeatedly stated people shouldn't be master banned from the game as a punishment over IRC and forum nonsense. Yet, when he doesn't get his way regarding punishment for individuals on IRC and the forums, the players and community get punished and affected instead. If he believes forum/irc shouldn't be directly tied to the game, why did players get affected and dragged in? It's a mixture of hypocrisy, a melt-down, and someone throwing a fit because they didn't get their way.

Regardless, I expect him to bring it back as it was. This little cry for attention from him won't last.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#126

Post by ibm5155 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:58 pm

scroton wrote:I believe I have a solution for the issues the Zandronum community faces:

1) Create separate but equal copies of all sub forums for general clan members--"Clan Projects", "Clan Editing", "Clan General" and so forth.

2) Make it so that all forum members that are currently in clans or have been in clans at any point in the past are only able to post in these clan sub forums. Make exceptions for bug reports and other such things which assist development of Zandronum. For the sake of organizing events, allow non-clan forum members to post in the clan sub forums.

3) Remove any and all forum Admins and Moderators which are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from their positions and put them in charge of moderating the clan sub forums. Allow them autonomy in appointing new clan moderators from clan forum members.

4) G-line all IRC users that are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from the main Zandronum IRC channels, such as #zandronum. Leave other IRC channels as-is.

I believe these changes will improve user experience for the entire zandronum community as it will mean that non clan members will be able to post about zandronum and zandronum projects, and clan members will be free to post about clans and clan feuds without interruption from moderation.

Thank you for your time.

Jst remove the recent topics area and the drama is destroyed by half
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#127

Post by The Toxic Avenger » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:02 pm

What

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#128

Post by DocCrowley » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:20 pm

Another day, another drama.
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#129

Post by scroton » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:18 am

Kara Kurt wrote:I'm not sure if serious or...
HTG wrote:Edit: fell for it gg
Ru5tK1ng wrote:Lol. Oh Karakurt, that post is obvious troll bait. But good on you to not fall for it.
My post was completely serious.
ZZYZX wrote:You seem to know a lot about clans. You seem to know a lot of clanless people suitable for the freed positions too.
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I know exceedingly little about clans, which is precisely as much as I care to.

I have no suggestions for who should join the moderation team whenever the site ends up implementing my modest proposals. If you're insinuating that I would be seeking such a position then rest assured that I would never ever be interested in being part of the moderation team.

That is assuming that there would even need to be replacements for the departing members of the moderation team--from what I understand the vast majority of moderator actions are caused by clan members.

Has there even been someone that has been banned that wasn't in a clan? Ever?
Kara Kurt wrote:Good job spitting on what also contributes in making Zandro a non-coop-only port.
I may be mistaken, but isn't what makes Zandronum a non-coop-only port the existence of multiple game modes supported by the port itself?
Ru5tK1ng wrote:Besides, the issue isn't entirely about clans or competition being at fault. There are plenty of clans who don't get involved in shit and there are plenty of coop and mod based clans with no hand in competition.
I agree with you that there are indeed many clans that do create Clan HQ wads and various Brutal Doom mutators, but I do not know if those can be, technically speaking, counted as mods or content.

This does bring up a good point, however, as it exposes a flaw in my proposal; there do exist a small number of individuals (for instance, Ænima) who, despite showing exceedingly poor judgement in joining a clan, also produce worthwhile content separate from the clan they are in. My proposals, implemented as stated above, would not be fair to these individuals. I believe this could be mitigated by the introduction of site "work passes" handed out on a per-request basis. These passes would allow clan members to post in the non clan sections of the site, albeit with all their posts requiring moderator approval. That way, a clan member that has a project thread for their non-clan project would still be generously allowed to post in their own thread (with moderator approval, of course) after my proposals are implemented.

Of course, to mitigate any potential damages caused by allowing clan members to post in the non clan sections of the site, any requested posts made by a pass holder which do not meet moderator approval would need to result in immediate revocation of the pass and a 1-year minimum block for that individual to request another pass.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#130

Post by Ivan » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:45 am

scroton wrote: Stuff...blabla
I'll be extremely kind to you -- This is not the kind of thread for you.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#131

Post by Kara Kurt » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:59 am

scroton wrote:
Kara Kurt wrote:Good job spitting on what also contributes in making Zandro a non-coop-only port.
I may be mistaken, but isn't what makes Zandronum a non-coop-only port the existence of multiple game modes supported by the port itself?
That's the point. Actually Zan has so many game modes that you can't count them on the fingers of two hands, which is quite positive although nowadays some of them only gets played during public events (FNF), but the thing is most of them are competition-oriented. However, to get mentioned game modes played, you might need a stable player base, that means these players contribute in making Zandronum a good multipurpose port. Needless to say that not everyone who plays CTF and is part of a clan is forcefully involved in dramas because when you (you as in everyone) want to keep a game alive/playable and sane, you know you must avoid getting into dramas. That being said I don't think blaming the competitive side of Zan is correct.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#132

Post by IdeIdoom » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:11 am

scroton wrote: This does bring up a good point, however, as it exposes a flaw in my proposal; there do exist a small number of individuals (for instance, Ænima) who, despite showing exceedingly poor judgement in joining a clan, also produce worthwhile content separate from the clan they are in.
I will just point out that most of the moderation team (including the developers) are/were in a clan.

And exceedingly poor judgement? Do you even know what clans are even? They aren't just for competitive play, or to make drama. Hell, you're better off joining a clan to make friends.
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#133

Post by ZZYZX » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:55 am

It's still to be explained why is BE currently down despite Jenova's statement that it'll continue to run normally, with Jenova himself vanishing for 24 hours already, which is a really rare thing (he's usually never or almost never offline).

Also scroton's suggestion is the reverse of what Jenova did: punish all clans and all players in them for what one person does, as opposed to punishing clanless players for what staff member did. Both are equally stupid.
Last edited by ZZYZX on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#134

Post by scroton » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:03 am

Ivan wrote: I'll be extremely kind to you -- This is not the kind of thread for you.
I sincerely appreciate your kindness, but I am just fine in this thread.
IdeIdoom wrote: I will just point out that most of the moderation team (including the developers) are/were in a clan.
I was aware of this regarding the moderation team. My proposal includes placing these individuals into the clan moderation team, where they will be in charge of moderating the clan subforums.

A quick check of the development user group, if I'm reading it correctly, reveals that almost none of the developers are in a clan. Neither Torr Samaho or Blzut3 appear to be in clans.
IdeIdoom wrote: And exceedingly poor judgement? Do you even know what clans are even? They aren't just for competitive play, or to make drama. Hell, you're better off joining a clan to make friends.
While there are certainly some small fraction of forum members that join clans for reasons other than feuding in the forums, you must admit such people are an extreme statistical anomaly.

Regarding the extremely poor judgement remark--I'm not saying that clan members can't be good people, or that they are all terrible drama-mongering individuals that hardly ever actually play Doom, but when I find out someone is on a clan I do usually lose a great deal of respect for the person as it is usually indicative of general poor life choices.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#135

Post by GramGreen » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:28 am

ZZYZX wrote:It's still to be explained why is BE currently down despite Jenova's statement that it'll continue to run normally, with Jenova himself vanishing for 24 hours already, which is a really rare thing (he's usually never or almost never offline).

Also scroton's suggestion is the reverse of what Jenova did: punish all clans and all players in them for what one person does, as opposed to punishing clanless players for what staff member did. Both are equally stupid.
I hope he didn't off himself but I think we can all agree that nothing would be lost.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#136

Post by ZZYZX » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:31 am

scroton wrote:Regarding the extremely poor judgement remark--I'm not saying that clan members can't be good people, or that they are all terrible drama-mongering individuals that hardly ever actually play Doom, but when I find out someone is on a clan I do usually lose a great deal of respect for the person as it is usually indicative of general poor life choices.
I'm sorry... what? So if I want to make a team to play with my friends, or join another team for the same reason, it's a poor life choice? I'm sorry again, but you probably were dealing with the wrong people.
Wait, actually, do you play AOW? I know a lot of people from competitive clans will go troll to AOW simply because they don't even care about it :P
Last edited by ZZYZX on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#137

Post by Konda » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:35 am

ZZYZX wrote:
scroton wrote:Regarding the extremely poor judgement remark--I'm not saying that clan members can't be good people, or that they are all terrible drama-mongering individuals that hardly ever actually play Doom, but when I find out someone is on a clan I do usually lose a great deal of respect for the person as it is usually indicative of general poor life choices.
I'm sorry... what? So if I want to make a team to play with my friends, or join another team for the same reason, it's a poor life choice? I'm sorry, but you probably were dealing with the wrong people.
#NotAllClans

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#138

Post by Samurai » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:40 am

scroton wrote:
Ivan wrote: I'll be extremely kind to you -- This is not the kind of thread for you.
I sincerely appreciate your kindness, but I am just fine in this thread.
IdeIdoom wrote: I will just point out that most of the moderation team (including the developers) are/were in a clan.
I was aware of this regarding the moderation team. My proposal includes placing these individuals into the clan moderation team, where they will be in charge of moderating the clan subforums.

A quick check of the development user group, if I'm reading it correctly, reveals that almost none of the developers are in a clan. Neither Torr Samaho or Blzut3 appear to be in clans.
IdeIdoom wrote: And exceedingly poor judgement? Do you even know what clans are even? They aren't just for competitive play, or to make drama. Hell, you're better off joining a clan to make friends.
While there are certainly some small fraction of forum members that join clans for reasons other than feuding in the forums, you must admit such people are an extreme statistical anomaly.

Regarding the extremely poor judgement remark--I'm not saying that clan members can't be good people, or that they are all terrible drama-mongering individuals that hardly ever actually play Doom, but when I find out someone is on a clan I do usually lose a great deal of respect for the person as it is usually indicative of general poor life choices.
You have a really unhealthy obsession with clans. Basically your theory seems to dive down to 'all people who are in a clan, or who have ever been in a clan should be banned from Zandrounum'.

What the hell does being in a clan have anything at all to do what has happened here, or happened in any sort of drama here in the last 5 or so years? Because I decided to wear a little tag infront of my alias, does that mean I'm going to suddenly act like a dick to people, where as if without having a clan tag I would be nice to everyone. Please stop generalising people here, the drama, or whatever you want to call it in this thread is concerning individuals, not a whole clan.

As others have said, you are either incredibly stupid, a troll, or both. As Ivan kindly pointed out, you're clearly out of your depth here, go play brutal doom or something.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#139

Post by Dynamo » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:19 pm

GramGreen wrote:I hope he didn't off himself but I think we can all agree that nothing would be lost.
I don't think he did anything of the sort, nor should he ever do anything of the sort - he has probably taken a much needed break given the circumstances so I'm sure he'll be fine. Also, "nothing would be lost" is not, in my view, something at all appropriate to say unless you're called Leonard. He's still a person, and even though he may have pulled some incredibly dumb and petty shit for years, that doesn't mean anybody should be glad if anything wrong happened to him. Just saying. I absolutely distance myself from statements such as these and I think you should think twice before posting something like that. Unless I misunderstood the point you were trying to make in which case I apologize.
Last edited by Dynamo on Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#140

Post by scroton » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:22 pm

ZZYZX wrote:Also scroton's suggestion is the reverse of what Jenova did: punish all clans and all players in them for what one person does, as opposed to punishing clanless players for what staff member did. Both are equally stupid.
My proposal does not seek to punish clan members; it's a measured, reasonable set of guidelines to promote a positive user experience for all forum members. While most clan members will best fit into this new paradigm by being grouped with other clan members in their own special clan subforum, the pass mentioned in my proposal revision allows for the infrequent clan member that can constructively contribute to the larger community to post in the larger community (with moderator approval for all posts, of course.)
ZZYZX wrote:I'm sorry... what? So if I want to make a team to play with my friends, or join another team for the same reason, it's a poor life choice?
If any of those desires lead to you joining a clan, then yes.
ZZYZX wrote:Wait, actually, do you play AOW? I know a lot of people from competitive clans will go troll to AOW simply because they don't even care about it :P
I have never played All Out War. While I dabble a bit in modding, most of the time when I play online I play with more "vanilla-ish" mods.
Samurai wrote:You have a really unhealthy obsession with clans.
I have seldom paid much attention to clans. My posts in this thread are the first posts I have made which concern clans in any capacity.
Samurai wrote:Basically your theory seems to dive down to 'all people who are in a clan, or who have ever been in a clan should be banned from Zandrounum'.
My proposal does not include banning such individuals from the Zandronum forums, merely restricting their posting to the proposed clan subforums. Depending upon how the proposed Clan Moderation Team decides to moderate the subforums, they may find that moderation is less lenient and thus they would in fact be less likely to be banned, rather than as you suggest.

As for the rest of the non clan forums, clan members would be free to read as much of the non clan sections as they would like and, as per my proposal revision, petition for a pass to post (with moderator approval) in the non clan forums.
Samurai wrote:Because I decided to wear a little tag infront of my alias, does that mean I'm going to suddenly act like a dick to people, where as if without having a clan tag I would be nice to everyone.
I agree with you in theory, but real-world observations lead even the casual observer to a conclusion of "yes." I am uncertain of the cause for the discrepancy.

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