Major Best Ever moderation change

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Jenova
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#61

Post by Jenova » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:01 pm

Dynamo wrote:Well, what was once a thread about changes to Best-Ever has turned into a circle jerk filled with personal attacks against other people who don't even have anything to do with BE. I appreciate the work and money Jenova has put into providing a service for the community over the years, but now I have to ask if this wasn't all along an ill-conceived effort to gain diplomatic immunity and force the staff to do what he wants. Because that's literally what he's doing here, using best-ever as a blackmail tool/leverage to get his way. Unsure if that would have been enough, he has been mass highlighting and PMing people on IRC to support his cause. This makes me question whether anybody who comes in here to defend his views wasn't asked by him beforehand.

Honestly, the only thing I'm seeing here is an attempt to cause a fracture within the community solely because of stupid grudges and for someone's vanity. Is this really worth starting a debacle over?
waterflame wrote:Zandronum needs a total purge of staff and have new staffmembers. I personally feel that the current staff for Zandronum is biased towards some persons, and as shown in this thread, everyone starts shittalking everyone.
Why, because the staff isn't following jenova's commands word-by-word? Fortunately the staff isn't a hivemind that complies with jenova's every wish.
waterflame wrote:keep in mind, I absolutely don’t give a shit about who is staff and who isn’t, and who is in what clan.
Then get out of this thread and stop wasting our time?
waterflame wrote:I think that jenova’s post pretty much hits bulls-eye. You all just went to prove that Jenova is right for most of what he said.
How did anybody prove anyone else right, exactly? Jenova addressed some people in his post that answered to his accusations. If you were accused on a thread by whoever, wouldn't you try to make a post to explain your positions? What the hell kind of logic (if any) are you even following?

To recap your post, it has been "jenova is right because people answered his topic" (oh wow I didn't know people should've refrained from posting to prove someone wrong), "I actually don't give a shit about any of the situation here but I'm gonna make a pointless post anyway" and "if you ban me it's because you can't accept critique" (why would anybody waste their time banning you anyway?). Go back to building sand castles on the beach. Or actually go back to idling on IRC, this is only your second post on the forums since 2013 and you're probably one of those Jenova asked to answer to this thread in his defense. Are you sure you're not part of the hivemind you so strongly criticize?
What personal attacks are you talking about?

The staff isn't a hivemind. They don't need to follow my orders. I am hoping that they listen with open ears to what I had to say regarding this issue.

To the people who think I didn't have any influence in the community before BE, that is just an extremely stupid thing to say. You can think that it was an ill-conceived effort, but why in God's name would I wait 4 years to simply state my dissatisfaction with the staff? Do you think I set up BE as some elaborate scheme to threaten A3 and waited 4 years to do so?

Generally, Mobius' arguments go as follows:

1. You can't ban me for what I did in the past
2. "Yeah, but you were an asshole too! You should also be banned!"

Seriously, when I have people who hate me in this topic coming and agreeing with me, who do you think is right? I have no problems if Mobius wants to start a "Jenova is a shitty person and should be banned from the community" thread but we all know that's going to go nowhere because I believe the level of mischief and drama he has caused is tenfold more than I have.

My whole post boils down to like three important points that somehow everyone has missed:

1. Certain staff members are afraid to ban Mobius (I would post a quote from a staff member here that literally proves my point but Mifu has told me not to)
2. Razgriz didn't hand out an appropriate punishment for Mobius'/Avc issue -- he didn't even hand out a punishment at all until after I brought it up in #staff. This is not a lie, please check for yourself. I BELIEVE, IN MY OPINION that this is because Mobius and Strangle are good friends, and that Strangle is extremely biased. Notice how when I called Strangle a shitty admin, I had Mobius join a minute later and start ragging on me?
3. Mobius has historically been banned many times in the past for the same type of shit he got banned 2 days ago for. I am not saying he should be banned because of something he did 2 or 3 years ago, but I believe that should be taken into consideration when deciding on future punishments. A ban works twofold -- one is for the reformation of the offender, and the other is a sense of "justice" in the community. Has Mobius reformed? Do you genuinely believe that he is a better person now than he was three years ago when he was banned or whatever? If you do think so then you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but my post is generally leaning the other way.

Mobius will try to spin this into something it's not, and I'm actually quite disappointed that people are agreeing with it. He will say "well, R hates A3, so it's obvious they want us banned!". I like to think of myself as a reasonable and just person who just also happens to generally be an asshole and was strongly disliked by the majority of the community at one point. I have banned 50% of my clan for weeks at a time because they have broken the rules. Rustking banned Ral for 15 minutes for votekick abusing Caboose, and Caboose had to literally message me to complain about it because it obviously wasn't fair. A 15 minute ban for votekicking literally does nothing because Ral just came into an empty server and votekicked Caboose, then promptly left right after, probably to go take a shit or eat or something. What kind of justice is this? This is what I refer to when I say they are extremely biased.

After starting this topic and the recent drama on IRC, I have had people private message me telling me that they completely agree with me but generally didn't want to get into the drama. Obviously this isn't a popularity contest, and I hope the staff don't see it as one and simply agree with Mobius or myself because we have 20 friends who will drown out the voice of reason with excuses.

I also want to point out that I don't believe Mobius should be permanently banned because I believe permanent bans are stupid and only encourage resentment, hatred, and general negativity. I am not going to sit here and explain to you every single thing he has done in the past that he should be banned for today, because obviously he has already been banned for those reasons. But I strongly believe that his recent past actions should be taken into consideration. I mean, he was permanently banned in 2012 and then evaded twice and then was unbanned. Now he is banned again. Now Mifu is telling me he will be permanently banned next time. Am I seriously supposed to sit here and believe this?
Last edited by Jenova on Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#62

Post by Mobius » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:13 pm

Jenova wrote:
1. You can't ban me for what I did in the past
2. "Yeah, but you were an asshole too! You should also be banned!"
Wrong again. In my post I made the proposition that you cannot ban me for something I have already done that I already have gotten banned for. You, on the other hand, are the one saying you should not be held accountable for anything in the past because it is only in the past. That is why I bring it up. So what should I be permabanned for again?
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#63

Post by Jenova » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:14 pm

Mobius wrote:
Jenova wrote:
1. You can't ban me for what I did in the past
2. "Yeah, but you were an asshole too! You should also be banned!"
Wrong again. In my post I made the proposition that you cannot ban me for something I have already done that I already have gotten banned for. You, on the other hand, are the one saying you should not be held accountable for anything in the past because it is only in the past. That is why I bring it up. So what should I be permabanned for again?
You didn't even read my post dude, read the last paragraph.

The above post generally does a good job of summarizing my opinion. I made a long wall of text to hopefully shed some "backstory", not to try to ban you for your past actions -- that like you said, you were already banned for. You absolutely should not be banned for "Double Jeopardy", but a thief who keeps stealing after he has been convicted multiple times should surely get a harsher sentence?

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#64

Post by Mobius » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:22 pm

Jenova wrote:
Mobius wrote:
Jenova wrote:
1. You can't ban me for what I did in the past
2. "Yeah, but you were an asshole too! You should also be banned!"
Wrong again. In my post I made the proposition that you cannot ban me for something I have already done that I already have gotten banned for. You, on the other hand, are the one saying you should not be held accountable for anything in the past because it is only in the past. That is why I bring it up. So what should I be permabanned for again?
You didn't even read my post dude, read the last paragraph.

The above post generally does a good job of summarizing my opinion. I made a long wall of text to hopefully shed some "backstory", not to try to ban you for your past actions -- that like you said, you were already banned for. You absolutely should not be banned for "Double Jeopardy", but a thief who keeps stealing after he has been convicted multiple times should surely get a harsher sentence?
Just like how you haven't read my long post where you didn't address anything I have said. You summarized my argument on a false premise because, if you read it, and the logs posted you'd be truthful on the premise of your opponent's point; however, you are notoriously disingenuous and don't wish to actually touch ground on factual information or actual refutation. This is why you have not answered the question on the point of double jeopardy. You say you do not want me to be banned for past actions, but the logs posted all over contradicts your premise where you go on a tirade to Mifu and co about banning me because I am a banned player and that my past actions warrants me not given a chance now because I had an incident with AVC though since I've been back had no prior offenses.

You cannot charge me twice for the same crime that I already paid the price for. I was banned from #Zandronum for a month and rightfully so and I've admitted this in all logs. What is your argument?
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#65

Post by Jenova » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:23 pm

Why were you banned for a month in #zandronum? Who caused this ban?

I believe those logs absolutely show who the real villains are. The dude who is asking for justice about banning a constant shitposter, or his 5 friends who gang up on me to try to piss me off in IRC so they can somehow use this log to their advantage. Come on man.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#66

Post by Mobius » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:30 pm

Jenova wrote:Why were you banned for a month in #zandronum? Who caused this ban?
I know you know the answer since we argued it http://pastebin.com/qpRWL8iH

The ban was issued by Razgriz who admitted to it here -- > https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... =20#p98638

I was banned for harassing AVC and linking his image the next day.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#67

Post by Dynamo » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:37 pm

Uh.
What personal attacks are you talking about?
[17:53] <Jenova> thats why mifu is retarded
[17:53] <Jenova> and tmc
[17:53] <Jenova> and 60% of the staff
<Jenova> but nobody likes jz
<Jenova> and jz is retarded
How about this, just for a sample? I could probably pick apart your posts and find hundreds more, but this is blatant and obvious enough. And before you say "but that's IRC" you still said that about JZ in regards to this thread. You're the one who recruited people from IRC to post in here, so you're the one who automatically canceled the forums/IRC divide.
The staff isn't a hivemind. They don't need to follow my orders. I am hoping that they listen with open ears to what I had to say regarding this issue.
I am sure they will listen. That still doesn't mean they have to comply, which is what has been suggested by some in the thread.
To the people who think I didn't have any influence in the community before BE, that is just an extremely stupid thing to say. You can think that it was an ill-conceived effort, but why in God's name would I wait 4 years to simply state my dissatisfaction with the staff? Do you think I set up BE as some elaborate scheme to threaten A3 and waited 4 years to do so?
Well, maybe had you been kicked out of #staff 4 years ago, you would've done it 4 years ago. The fact you've done it now does not invalidate the impression some people have gotten, which is that you have been planning to do something like this for quite some time, the reasons for which I think Ru5tK1ng talked of pretty well.
Generally, Mobius' arguments go as follows:

1. You can't ban me for what I did in the past
2. "Yeah, but you were an asshole too! You should also be banned!"
Funny, considering this thread has been started for the exact same reason - capodecima got banned for DDoSing someone, this involved you because you did the same thing in the past, and now you are trying to deflect this on other people by claiming "but look at all the shit other people also did in the past!". Weird how you don't enjoy the spotlight all of a sudden? You are criticizing Mobius often for things you are guilty of 10 times more. That said, I'm not strictly defending Mobius, to be honest I'm not even sure what he has done this time or why he was brought up in the thread. I heard he attacked AVC on IRC, but didn't you yourself call AVC a retard recently?
Seriously, when I have people who hate me in this topic coming and agreeing with me, who do you think is right?
When you mass highlighted the entirety of #bestever as well as PM'ed random people who obviously were never gonna agree with your viewpoints (HeavenWraith just to name one), it's obvious you're gonna get a few people who praise your points even though (as waterflame clearly showed) they barely have any idea what they're talking about. The only thing you've accomplished here is proving you're willing to rally up random people to get muscle you can use in this discussion, which is the same "hivemind" mentality you accused A3 of doing. You are the king of hypocrites.
I have no problems if Mobius wants to start a "Jenova is a shitty person and should be banned from the community"thread
Well, the point is that he hasn't and you have. You're the one trying to cause drama for everyone (and the IRC logs that have been posted where you act like an arrogant jerk with the staff as if they owed you anything show this better than anything else can). I don't think Mobius needs to try to ruin your reputation, you are doing that yourself perfectly already.
My whole post boils down to like three important points that somehow everyone has missed:

1. Certain staff members are afraid to ban Mobius (I would post a quote from a staff member here that literally proves my point but Mifu has told me not to)
Being afraid of banning someone is nothing new and it happened a lot even in times where you apparently had no issue with the staff whatsoever. That being said, I've seen Mobius banned plenty of times (same with others), and I've seen MiFU say that he's willing to enforce stricter punishments for repeat offenders. This apparently hasn't pleased you, even though it's what you technically asked. It hasn't pleased you because you want to see Mobius banned. It's not about A3,it's not about the cheaters, it's not about anything else you are trying to fool people into thinking is important. You have a vendetta against Mobius for some incomprehensible reason and want to see him banned. Grow up.
2. Razgriz didn't hand out an appropriate punishment for Mobius'/Avc issue
I agree, I think someone should definitely be punished here:
[17:55] <Jenova> why did avc go off on strangle
[17:55] <Jenova> or was he just joking, i cant tell, avc is retarded
Yes, Mobius also said AVC is retarded. But you said it first. You're only interested in the AVC case because you're hoping to use it to further your vendetta. That makes you more of a hypocrite than Mobius could ever hope of becoming in a lifetime.

Not to mention:
Mobius wrote:The ban was issued by Razgriz who admitted to it here -- > https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... =20#p98638

I was banned for harassing AVC and linking his image the next day.
So, you're just straight up lying at this point. Then again you've pretty much been lying since post #1, and this latest post of yours is nothing more than a re-iteration than that one. Meanwhile you've pretty much completely ignored a lot of points Ru5tK1ng and Razgriz have made.
I BELIEVE, IN MY OPINION that this is because Mobius and Strangle are butt-buddies. Notice how when I called Strangle a shitty admin, I had Mobius join a minute later and start ragging on me?
Yeah, next time I see one person I'm friends with getting shittalked by someone I'll sure pretend I never saw anything and carry on with my day. Wow. Is this really the best argument you have? As if Mobius was never banned while Strangle has been on staff.
3. Mobius has historically been banned many times in the past for the same type of shit he got banned 2 days ago for. I am not saying he should be banned because of something he did 2 or 3 years ago, but I believe that should be taken into consideration when deciding on future punishments.
Again, MiFU has said he will take that into consideration. You're still not happy with that decision so stop pretending that is all you are suggesting because it's not.
After starting this topic and the recent drama on IRC, I have had people private message me telling me that they completely agree with me but generally didn't want to get into the drama.
Wait, let me fix that for you:
I have PM'd people in order to get them to support my cause: they told me they think mobius is a dick but they aren't going to post.
There.
Mobius will try to spin this into something it's not, and I'm actually quite disappointed that people are agreeing with it. He will say "well, R hates A3, so it's obvious they want us banned!". I don't speak for my clan, I speak for myself, and you can ask any player in the community and they will generally tell you the same thing.
Well, people who you didn't choose to follow your IRC rally are agreeing with it, that's all there is to it. I don't know why you even thought it was a good idea to have a meeting of people who dislike mobius for one reason or another (and who are by the way people you used to regularly shit on), it still has nothing to do with the original best ever point except, as you said it yourself, it is something petty that you are doing.
Is this petty and shitty? Absolutely, without a doubt.
That does nothing but put you in an even worse light, and merely enforces what Ru5tK1ng and others have been saying since the thread started.

None of us is interested in your vendetta against Mobius. Much less (I would imagine) the staff, after you've done nothing but call them retards and refusing to be happy when your technicalities were even accepted by them. However, the amount of hypocrisy and double standards that I've seen in your posts sure is interesting. I thought when you opened Best Ever, you only had the community's best interests in mind. Guess not.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#68

Post by Jenova » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:24 pm

"me calling people retarded"
Did people leave the community because of me? Did people actively voice their frustration and discontent, two months ago, in a completely unrelated topic, about how much of a terrible person I am? No. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I'm some saint -- it's pretty clear that I'm not, but I don't believe I'm nowhere near the level of malicious as Mobius. Yes, I have called a lot of people retarded. I call everyone that I disagree with retarded. Should I probably stop doing that? Yes. Does it change what Mobius has done at all? No.

Why does this matter? Like I said in the post, Mobius is free to start a topic about how I should be banned for the terrible things I've done in the past, like call people retarded. In fact, that's my go to insult.
Well, maybe had you been kicked out of #staff 4 years ago, you would've done it 4 years ago. The fact you've done it now does not invalidate the impression some people have gotten, which is that you have been planning to do something like this for quite some time, the reasons for which I think Ru5tK1ng talked of pretty well.
Maybe that's the impression that people get. So? I mean I know for a fact that it isn't the impression most people have -- just A3 and co. I've tried to make my servers a genuinely good place for people to play and I'm sorry if that's not the impression you've gotten because you read some post about me calling people retarded.
After starting this topic and the recent drama on IRC, I have had people private message me telling me that they completely agree with me but generally didn't want to get into the drama.
Wait, let me fix that for you:
I have PM'd people in order to get them to support my cause: they told me they think mobius is a dick but they aren't going to post.
There.
Of course, just completely ignore the main point of the sentence and respond a point that is extremely tangential to the topic at hand.
Well, people who you didn't choose to follow your IRC rally are agreeing with it, that's all there is to it. I don't know why you even thought it was a good idea to have a meeting of people who dislike mobius for one reason or another (and who are by the way people you used to regularly shit on), it still has nothing to do with the original best ever point except, as you said it yourself, it is something petty that you are doing.
Note the keyword: used to shit on. Excellent! I still shit on people who agree with me and they know it! I don't have to like people to agree with their opinions! Mobius and I hate each other and we both agree the staff are spineless. Wow, crazy how that works, huh?
That does nothing but put you in an even worse light, and merely enforces what Ru5tK1ng and others have been saying since the thread started.
I know this may come as a surprise to you, but making a public post like this is the only way to get things done around here. I'll let the readers decide what they think is right. I don't have to prove anything to you -- I've already made my point and have people that agree with me. What's the worst case scenario? Mobius gets a permban the next time? This ONLY happened because I made this topic and caused all of this drama. If I hadn't Mobius would have simply gotten another slap on the wrist and continued to do what he did.
None of us is interested in your vendetta against Mobius. Much less (I would imagine) the staff, after you've done nothing but call them retards and refusing to be happy when your technicalities were even accepted by them. However, the amount of hypocrisy and double standards that I've seen in your posts sure is interesting. I thought when you opened Best Ever, you only had the community's best interests in mind. Guess not.
Uhh, that's exactly the opposite response I've gotten from the entire staff. They told me they do care and do wish to resolve this issue. This isn't some personal vendetta and It's baffling how you think it is. If this was strictly between me and Mobius, then I would have called him out on it like I did 4 years ago without crying to the staff about it like I'm doing now. This topic is proof that the staff would not do the things they do without strongly worded letters about what others think. Pathetic!

What am I lying about the whole Strangle thing? Why don't you ask an admin? I'm not lying about anything. I complained in #staff about nobody being banned, and the next day Strangle banned Mobius? Is there any doubt about this?
Last edited by Jenova on Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#69

Post by Mobius » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:44 pm

So apparently I had to inspect this thread to realize Jenova has been editting post that were already been replied to adding aditional finromation to it. This whole thread a big smoke and mirrors campaign of a career liar. There something I see I want to address.

Image
Jenova wrote: 1. Certain staff members are afraid to ban Mobius (I would post a quote from a staff member here that literally proves my point but Mifu has told me not to)
Yeah this whole thread is about Mobius not being banned oh wait https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 450#p98450

I think the staff is afraid of banning Jenova

Jenova wrote:2. Razgriz didn't hand out an appropriate punishment for Mobius'/Avc issue -- he didn't even hand out a punishment at all until after I brought it up in #staff. This is not a lie, please check for yourself. I BELIEVE, IN MY OPINION that this is because Mobius and Strangle are good friends, and that Strangle is extremely biased. Notice how when I called Strangle a shitty admin, I had Mobius join a minute later and start ragging on me?
Wrong again little man http://pastebin.com/qpRWL8iH I was highlighted to the discussion and kept my mouth shut in #A3 because it was a staff thing. You see unlike you where your bias is literally all over the place: I actually stay out of staff affairs with Strangle for only the sole reason for not getting him of the very same problems you are accusing him of. Anyone who reads the log can see that I wasn't even on the attack first or at all and it started later. I even agreed with Jenova that the ban and it's timing was unnecessary, but I argued that me being banned is good because AVC was bullied by me and I continued the next day. What's the problem here"? Maybe I should have reported you to the RCMP the day you ddos'd us and used Legion's video as evidence if I knew you were like this.

Jenova wrote:3. Mobius has historically been banned many times in the past for the same type of shit he got banned 2 days ago for.
That is half true. I have been banned from the forums in 2012 because I went to the staff, irrate, about them splitting posts from the A3 thread in the forums. Originally I posted content that was about the clan but nothing too important; however, noticed a lot of my content were being split especially comments I made about recuirts like Mudkipper. Apparently this warranted me being banned for 3 years (2012 - 2015) yeah ok good job Jenova once again with misleading information.

Jenova wrote:I am not saying he should be banned because of something he did 2 or 3 years ago, but I believe that should be taken into consideration when deciding on future punishments. A ban works twofold -- one is for the reformation of the offender, and the other is a sense of "justice" in the community. Has Mobius reformed? Do you genuinely believe that he is a better person now than he was three years ago when he was banned or whatever? If you do think so then you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but my post is generally leaning the other way.
Why don't we sift through my post history and you tell me. How about we start from this
https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=6706

or

https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... =80#p89751

or

https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=6769

Let the community decide indeed rofl
Jenova wrote:A bunch of shit about Ral no one cares about
Jenova also endorses lying
http://imgur.com/Ifx9COm

He likes framing the question and painting the narrative.. until of course when you actually tell someone else what it is that is happening.. well.
Jenova wrote:After starting this topic and the recent drama on IRC, I have had people private message me telling me that they completely agree with me but generally didn't want to get into the drama. Obviously this isn't a popularity contest, and I hope the staff don't see it as one and simply agree with Mobius or myself because we have 20 friends who will drown out the voice of reason with excuses.
Not a popularity contest but you are PMing people or highlighting your own channel about the matter rofl seriously talk about hivemind.
Jenova wrote:I also want to point out that I don't believe Mobius should be permanently banned because I believe permanent bans are stupid and only encourage resentment, hatred, and general negativity.
Oh yeah? That's nott what you here
http://pastebin.com/V1S5wQDP

You literally went off because I shouldn't have been unbanned. I am mentioned by you 65 times in a log of 600+ lines. This is literally a vendetta you have.. and honestly as much as I want it to be one sided: it isn't. You do this every year and I am tired of it. I will publicly make my stance that YOU should be banned from irc for harassing staff and myself if not others. You even have your R buddies come in this discussion throwing in baseless accusations trying to accuse us of malicious shit but all you DO is go around lying to whoever you PM about shit and the only reason

the only reason

you make traction is because you bombard people with falsehoods without proof or refutation and no one gives a fuck enough to know the details enough to argue with you. You have a league of autistic megaman players on bestever who would literally suck dick if it meant you'll give them a platinum promoted BE server.
Jenova wrote:I am not going to sit here and explain to you every single thing he has done in the past that he should be banned for today, because obviously he has already been banned for those reasons. But I strongly believe that his recent past actions should be taken into consideration. I mean, he was permanently banned in 2012 and then evaded twice and then was unbanned. Now he is banned again. Now Mifu is telling me he will be permanently banned next time. Am I seriously supposed to sit here and believe this?
What actions to consider? Mifu just told you something and you are on another spiel about what? I am unbanned now you don't want me permabanned but you didn't want me unbanned what the fuck are you on? Why don't you just flat out say what you want?

I was banned for harassing AVC. Get fucked.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

Dynamo
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#70

Post by Dynamo » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:50 pm

Jenova wrote:Did people leave the community because of me? Did people actively voice their frustration and discontent, two months ago, in a completely unrelated topic, about how much of a terrible person I am? No. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I'm some saint -- it's pretty clear that I'm not, but I don't believe I'm nowhere near the level of malicious as Mobius.
Jenova from the previous post in this same page wrote:Obviously this isn't a popularity contest
Image
Jenova wrote:Yes, I have called a lot of people retarded. I call everyone that I disagree with retarded. Should I probably stop doing that? Yes.
Come to think of it, didn't Decay get banned for a month for doing exactly this during the Leonard debacle? Shouldn't you also be banned then for doing this?
Jenova wrote:Does it change what Mobius has done at all? No.
It also doesn't change the fact that you're a hypocrite, something it seems you are refusing to acknowledge. You are in no position to judge Mobius given you do worse shit than he does. Especially not after, as I said in the previous post, MiFU agreed to apply a stricter policy.
Jenova wrote:Why does this matter? Like I said in the post, Mobius is free to start a topic about how I should be banned for the terrible things I've done in the past, like call people retarded. In fact, that's my go to insult.
I have already answered to this. Repeating the same things endlessly in 50 different posts isn't going to make your arguments more convincing or logical.
Jenova wrote:Maybe that's the impression that people get. So? I mean I know for a fact that it isn't the impression most people have -- just A3 and co.
And neither will generalizing.
Jenova wrote:I've tried to make my servers a genuinely good place for people to play and I'm sorry if that's not the impression you've gotten because you read some post about me calling people retarded.
I certainly am not going to say otherwise, and as I said already I personally appreciate the work you've put into it, and so does I assume pretty much everyone. It doesn't however excuse you coming up with lies and pretending to be able to tell the staff what they should and shouldn't do. (which you did in the IRC logs by the way). Again, repeating the same things isn't going to help your case.
Jenova wrote:Of course, just completely ignore the main point of the sentence and respond a point that is extremely tangential to the topic at hand.
Tangential? Really? Are you confirming I was right then? Thought so. If you think getting PM'd and PM'ing someone in a context like this is the same thing this only goes to show just how untrustworthy what you say is.
Jenova wrote:Note the keyword: used to shit on. Excellent! I still shit on people who agree with me and they know it! I don't have to like people to agree with their opinions! Mobius and I hate each other and we both agree the staff are spineless. Wow, crazy how that works, huh?
I'm not sure what this is even meant to prove, you're just describing yourself as an asshole, so okay that's cool I guess?
Jenova wrote:I know this may come as a surprise to you, but making a public post like this is the only way to get things done around here.
It actually doesn't come as a surprise to me at all, friend. But in your case I assume calling MiFU a retard was also part of your "getting things done around here"?
Jenova wrote:I'll let the readers decide what they think is right.
Well, we sure would be in a lot of trouble if you had access to mind control tools, now.
Jenova wrote:I don't have to prove anything to you
This is because you have proved nothing and have in fact fabricated/exaggerated events and lied to people about circumstances. There is nothing you can prove. Well, except that you're a hypocrite I guess.
Jenova wrote:I've already made my point and have people that agree with me.
Yes, the people you PM'd on IRC. Again, repeating the same bullshit and trying to pass it off as something that it isn't isn't going to help your case in the slightest.
Jenova wrote:What's the worst case scenario? Mobius gets a permban the next time? This ONLY happened because I made this topic and caused all of this drama. If I hadn't Mobius would have simply gotten another slap on the wrist and continued to do what he did.
Thank you, savior of the community? So you did this entire debacle only in the hope that Mobius could get permabanned? Well, thanks for confirming you have a personal vendetta against him and have otherwise absolutely zero interest in bettering the community. If anything though you did show how you did the same shit Mobius pulled off except unlike him you got away with it.
Jenova wrote:Uhh, that's exactly the opposite response I've gotten from the entire staff. They told me they do care and do wish to resolve this issue.
They told you they wish to resolve the issue of flamewars, they never told you they wish to help you in getting rid of Mobius. And that's because they don't. If Mobius fucks up he'll be banned and he has been banned in the past - this is something MiFU has said, something Mobius has shown you with logs even, and you are completely refusing to acknowledge any of that. You are just repeating the same exaggerated/misleading claims you made on your first post and doing nothing else, I'm sure a lot of people will not bother double checking what you said and will believe you only on the grounds of "welp, I heard mobius is a bit of a dick so I guess this guy is automatically right". However I'm pretty sure most of the community knows better than to be fooled by bullshit like this.
Jenova wrote:This isn't some personal vendetta and It's baffling how you think it is.
You just admitted to it earlier. You changed the rules of best ever because you are pissed at Mobius (else you wouldn't have derailed this thread). You need a better hobby.
Jenova wrote:This topic is proof that the staff would not do the things they do without strongly worded letters about what others think. Pathetic!
I'm glad I don't think the same as you do, as someone who has been in the skulltag/zandronum community for over 10 years I've seen enough drama for 5 lifetimes, and I can do nothing but appreciate the efforts that MiFU and the rest of the staff have put into building a better and cleaner places, the signs of which are evident. If you don't agree that's fine, you don't have to. Just like, again, we don't have to care about your vendetta. Meanwhile the only thing you have been doing is calling the staff retarded/spineless EVEN AFTER they agreed to do some of the things you suggested. If there's one thing I can hope for (and am rather convinced of) is for the staff to look into your flamebaiting and disrespectful attitude, because if you wanted to prove that people with shitty attitudes are allowed to roam free in this community you've done it just now, except it's not A3. Thanks for allowing this to be seen by everyone though so I hope next time appropriate action may be taken.

Mobius
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#71

Post by Mobius » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:04 pm

Jenova wrote:Jenova wrote:
This topic is proof that the staff would not do the things they do without strongly worded letters about what others think. Pathetic!
Keep in mind ladies and gentlemen, that Jenova was the one who made a long worded post first involving my ban and behavior to the staff.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#72

Post by Jenova » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:04 pm

Mifu, how did Mobius get banned? Can you please explain to me the timeline of the events? I know you wouldn't lie. Here is what happened: I saw AVC/Strangle getting into a tussle in #zandronum a few hours after it happened or maybe a day after, the key point is that it already happened and Mobius was not banned at this time. Then, I joined #staff and asked why he wasn't banned. Then, after I mentioned it, Strangle banned him for 30 days from #zandronum.

I don't understand. Is that not what people remember? There is literally a log of this exact thing happening, I will see if I can find it.

Did I overreact? Maybe. Did the staff ban him before I brought any of this up? Absolutely not.

Who is always at the center of this drama? How can you seriously keep defending these people when countless past experience has shown that they do nothing but cause problems?

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#73

Post by Mobius » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:10 pm

Jenova wrote: Who is always at the center of this drama? How can you seriously keep defending these people when countless past experience has shown that they do nothing but cause problems?
Oh look he's spamming the same posts again let's answer this

current source of drama - Jenova

http://pastebin.com/qpRWL8iH
http://pastebin.com/5tSxY5QH
http://pastebin.com/V1S5wQDP
https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7484
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#74

Post by Jenova » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:15 pm

In the first log, I explained why you were banned and what happened in #zandronum, then you started w. this:

[17:44] <Mobius> what happened in #A3
[17:44] <Mobius> did you backseat mod again?

Then, instead of dropping it, you made a quote bot and put it in your irc channel to poke fun at me, but this is not a big deal because you are absolutely allowed to do this.

The third log was last night when I just read the other drama topic 2 months ago about the same thing, and then I was kind of shocked to figure the staff still didn't really care.
Decay wrote:Aren't you dizzy from talking in so many circles and getting nowhere?
The source of this drama was not me, it was me pointing out that Strangle failed to ban his best friend on the game for breaking the rules. Can any admins seriously dispute this? Sorry for pointing out that I don't like what the admins are doing!

Of course, another quality contribution by Decay!

Dynamo
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#75

Post by Dynamo » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:18 pm

Jenova wrote:Of course, another quality contribution by Decay!
Jenova in the previous page wrote:Of course, just completely ignore the main point of the sentence and respond a point that is extremely tangential to the topic at hand.
??? ??? ???
Last edited by Dynamo on Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ivan
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#76

Post by Ivan » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:21 pm

Decay wrote:I'm waiting for something from you that actually addresses these posts but all I see is a lot of shouting down everybody and repeating the same points over and over that are being refuted by others and you refusing to address those refutes. Give me something quality instead of angsty posts about nothing.
Watch Jenova become an edgelord with the angsty posts he's making. I think he already lost parts of him as he keeps repeating himself over and over...

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#77

Post by Mobius » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:21 pm

Jenova wrote:In the first log, I explained why you were banned and what happened in #zandronum, then you started w. this:

[17:44] <Mobius> what happened in #A3
[17:44] <Mobius> did you backseat mod again?

Then, instead of dropping it, you made a quote bot and put it in your irc channel to poke fun at me, but this is not a big deal because you are absolutely allowed to do this.

The third log was last night when I just read the other drama topic 2 months ago about the same thing, and then I was kind of shocked to figure the staff still didn't really care.
Actually if anyone read the log the conversation was at low pace. I was highlighted first, saw what happened in my channel, and off the bat knew exactly what happened because you've done this before. I pointed this out in my first huge post about you doing this to Heavenwraith and the staff good going. You did exactly as I mentioned and have "backseat moderating"

Also there is you bringing up an issue and another having my name mentioned 65 times with some lines in all caps arguing about why I should not be unbanned. Where were you when this happened
https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6702
Jenova wrote:Did people leave the community because of me? Did people actively voice their frustration and discontent, two months ago, in a completely unrelated topic, about how much of a terrible person I am? No. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I'm some saint -- it's pretty clear that I'm not, but I don't believe I'm nowhere near the level of malicious as Mobius. Yes, I have called a lot of people retarded. I call everyone that I disagree with retarded. Should I probably stop doing that? Yes. Does it change what Mobius has done at all? No.
Name names and event in question other than Jwarrier. Where is this voices of discontent months ago unless you mean Leonard for Decay.

I want everyone to know that Jenova is using Cointelpro tactics he got from Water who he got from me.

http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

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Razgriz
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#78

Post by Razgriz » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:38 pm

There is one thing I'm going to address that Jenova keeps pushing forth, and it's the fact he has "many people who agree with him in PM" when it comes to Mobius and A3 (more specifically Mobius).

I will in fact direct people to this topic where they had a chance to discuss why they think he should remain banned on the topic, in the staff channel or a member in PM. You see how little resistance there is in the topic? There was literally zero activity in the staff channel and nobody mentioned getting PM's about the topic. The topic had quite a few visitors but there was no blip on the map from anyone who was against it. You would be lead to believe the fact that if Mobius is evil and has never changed, that there would have been an uprising about this. No doubt, look at this topic, there isn't anybody who are agreeing that Mobius should have remained banned. Somehow, in this current topic about Mobius, there are ghost users who Jenova says agree with him. Maybe it's the same users who visited that topic but never spoke up? You can say ''oh they were afraid of the hive mentality they would shit on anyone who disagrees about unbanning Mobius!"

What?

You can even look at the topic up and down, only A3 member who posted was Rust and Decay and it wasn't even related to the question at hand. In the staff channel I refrained from getting involved in the discussion or answering the questions because I didn't want to give bias. After talking it was agreed that it has been quite some time and the topic explained everything.

So what happened? It's clear nobody care enough that he was unbanned, several said it was the right decision in the end. You did go on a tangent trying to find and recall anyone and everyone that had or currently has beef with Mobius (as seen by the mass pming you have done). You are supposedly going to bat for these people he has wronged even if it happened as far back as your Ddos. Nice so does this mean since we can't forgive Mobius that we shouldn't forgive you? Sounds good to me, though if you ever noticed there are a lot of people who never felt inclined to report stuff to staff. Why? Nati did it, Striker did it, Leonard did it, and things happened. If everything he did was so off the wall and evil, you would bet they would have rushed to the staff and talk. Heck I even forgot to tell you AVC came into the channel himself before you, but only like 2 staff members who don't get involved in drama were present. You aren't a major mover, you are a very loud minority in the community who happens to "run" BE now. If people truly were victimized by him there would have been a line in staff talking about every incident Mobius has done and how they wanted him punished back then. Clearly everything is not so evil, and you can't hold staff accountable for the individuals inability to report something to the proper person (in game incidents to server admins, IRC and forum to the staff).

It's been over half a year since his IRC and Forum ban got reversed, but now 1 incident suddenly means he's evil and should never have been unbanned. I don't see see how 1 incident should result in a perm either, but somehow suddenly there is an invisible brigade of people behind Jenova, who were nowhere near present during the time of that topic. It was seen, and nobody said anything during, or after. Mobius was given a clean slate along with Decay, and they have been treated like other users regardless of their history because that's what a clean slate is and it's what the staff figured was the right choice, and nobody disagreed.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#79

Post by Dynamo » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:11 pm

Ladies and gentlemen, behold, your upstanding community member Jenova providing a good service for everyone and proving that indeed whatever he did was not at all to cause drama:
<Jenova> !kickban Razgriz--
* ChanServ sets ban on *!*@Razgriz.users.zandronum.com
* ChanServ has kicked Razgriz-- from #bestever (No reason given)
<Jenova> !kick Ru5tK1ng
* ChanServ has kicked Ru5tK1ng from #bestever (No reason given)
<Jenova> they're going to somehow spin this and make me look like the scumbag even though ive supported this community for years with this BE stuff and other stuff ------ (We can see that!)
<Jenova> they're going to says hit like
<Jenova> "look at jenova using his server to try to get mobius banned"
<Jenova> absolutely dumb
<Jenova> i genuinely dont want to help these people (staff members of this game) and would rather not waste my money and my time doing this for the community anymore
<Jenova> because this community is a cesspool of shit ------ (Wasn't it just a few select individuals?)
<IvanDobrovski> hi
<IvanDobrovski> 02:04:01 <Jenova> they're going to says hit like
<Jenova> !kickban IvanDobrovski
* ChanServ sets ban on *!*@IvanDobrovski.users.zandronum.com
* ChanServ has kicked IvanDobrovski from #bestever (No reason given)
<Jenova> .killall
<BestBot> Killed a total of 149 servers.
<Jenova> .quit
* BestBot has quit (Connection closed)
Make sure to vote him in the next elections, and most importantly:
<Jenova> its a few select individuals
<Jenova> which have caused a lot of members in this community
<Jenova> a lot of grief
Always remember the woes and grief that the community has caused to the legion of invisible Jenova supporters!

RIP BE

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Leonard
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#80

Post by Leonard » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Dynamo wrote:Come to think of it, didn't Decay get banned for a month for doing exactly this during the Leonard debacle? Shouldn't you also be banned then for doing this?
My whole point was and still is that the staff aren't doing their job which has been brought up in this very thread.
I'm going to be very clear here so you don't bring this up over and over again, repeating myself for the 5th time, my intent was not to ban Decay specifically but to get the staff to do what they're supposed to.
I couldn't care less if it was Decay or someone else shitposting over, he was just a very obvious example of what I wanted to show.
Decay being banned for a month changed absolutely nothing, see this very thread which is 5 pages long.
Dynamo wrote:MiFU agreed to apply a stricter policy.
MiFU already agreed to some policies in the past.
Look at this one for example which was very clearly applied to these posts.
Dynamo wrote:they wish to resolve the issue of flamewars

[...]

MiFU and the rest of the staff have put into building a better and cleaner places, the signs of which are evident.
Yes, which is why this thread has been going on for 5 pages now.
The signs are indeed very evident, please point to MiFU's post in this thread.
Dynamo wrote:if you wanted to prove that people with shitty attitudes are allowed to roam free in this community you've done it just now, except it's not A3.
Definitely not.



In the end I think Jenova is right in saying that the staff are simply afraid to actually moderate and make this forum a clean place.
This is the impression I got when MiFU replied to me.
From what I understand, that was the time where metal was an admin.
I read from the same people who are shitposting this very thread that metal was biased against them.
It would make sense that they're the people who would complain about being too strict since they're the ones who were punished because of it.
Maybe you should actually listen to other people instead of this endless circlejerk that, as pointed out, no one wants to put up with.
Now of course there's always the possibility that the old administration actually got biased against them but you're not forced to do exactly like them.
You can do better than that and improve on them. You can actually be strict without being biased and without having the public dislike you.
Unless of course you think the public is only those people who circlejerk constantly on the forum and insult everyone as they please even after you said yourself that it should end.

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