Just what IS Zandronum, anyway?

[Igor]

IGOR ASKED CARNEVIL FOR LUNCHABLES AND CARNEVIL CLOSE SKULTAG FORUM, SO SORRY

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

All ST actors still exists inside the zandronum.pk3, but they just lack sprites and sounds.

Let me ask, are we still going to make some use of them, and restore these actors with new sprites and sounds, or they will be deleted in the next versions?

[Nubcakes]

Okay, So I mostly used Skulltag for Lan Parties and kinda withdrew from it's online community in 2010. Now that College/work are less insane I have more free time I decided to try to get more involved again. However, When I went to see whats up with Skulltag it turns out a massive shitstorm just went over. I understand the people in charge of Zandronum want to get past... what ever happened so I won't prod into that topic. Instead I have some basic questions about the future of Zandronum.

I downloaded your first build and as noted in this thread(and else where in this forum) skulltag_data.pk3 is not included. Do you have plans to somehow incorporate the data into Zandronum or will it be up to everyone to get the last version of Skulltag take it's PK3 and dump it into the Zandronum folder? As everyone hopefully knows, many many many many many WADs require resources from skulltag_data.pk3 and asking everyone to simply "update" their wads is hugely impractical.

Next... Will all the multiplayer features that Skulltag had also be included in future releases of Zandronum? (TeamDM, CTF, Duel, Survival, Survival Invasion, Invasion, Terminator, LMS, Team LMS, Possession, Team Possession, Skulltag, Teamgame, and Domination) Related to Survival and Survival Invasion, will we still be able to choose how many lives players get?

Thanks for your time!

[Xaser]

All ST actors still exists inside the zandronum.pk3, but they just lack sprites and sounds.

Let me ask, are we still going to make some use of them, and restore these actors with new sprites and sounds, or they will be deleted in the next versions?

They'll be kept around, and there's a separate skulltag_data.pk3 that can be used to restore the graphics n' things. It'd be shooting backwards compatibility in the foot to get rid of things entirely, especially given the port's heritage and purpose.

[Wartorn]

I downloaded your first build and as noted in this thread(and else where in this forum) skulltag_data.pk3 is not included. Do you have plans to somehow incorporate the data into Zandronum or will it be up to everyone to get the last version of Skulltag take it's PK3 and dump it into the Zandronum folder? As everyone hopefully knows, many many many many many WADs require resources from skulltag_data.pk3 and asking everyone to simply "update" their wads is hugely impractical.

We do not intend to release skulltag_data.pk3 as an autoloading mechanism nor do we wish to further support it. We will offer it as a separate optional download though at a future date that can be loaded alongside other pwads (Actually, this can already be done and it'll still functionality-wise act identical to Skulltag) to maintain compatibility. Server hosts will have to take it upon themselves to host skulltag_data as well for wads that don't work.

Next... Will all the multiplayer features that Skulltag had also be included in future releases of Zandronum? (TeamDM, CTF, Duel, Survival, Survival Invasion, Invasion, Terminator, LMS, Team LMS, Possession, Team Possession, Skulltag, Teamgame, and Domination) Related to Survival and Survival Invasion, will we still be able to choose how many lives players get?

All of the gamemodes are hard-coded and we have no reason to drop support for them at this time (Although a few of them do depend on _data for resources, particularly Terminator and CTF). Everything that technically works in Skulltag works in Zandronum at present.

[Torr Samaho]

All ST actors still exists inside the zandronum.pk3, but they just lack sprites and sounds.

We may be moving out the actors that are not crucial for the game modes (like the monsters and weapons) to a separate, optional pk3 possibly called skulltag_actors.pk3. In any case you should be able to use those actors in the future by loading some optional pk3s.

[Racoon]

okay. Skulltag fan here. from all I've read so far, I understand A LOT of changes are happening. I also understand the whole thing with Carnevil leaving for good (yea thanks for nothing..no really, I meant it) and all that Jerry Springer B.S. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or anything but I was pretty much puzzled due to the fact that the Development team for Zandronum is pretty much removing all the ST features too. I mean, I thought the runes, the weapons and the extra game modes were quite innovative..yea I liked those things. But lets just cut to the chase. I am highly confused, even though reading all the posts here, I'm just wondering....what is this source port's objective? is this continuing skulltag? if so, how? are new maps, weapons or items, or whatever will be introduced? I'm just wondering....

by the way, i found a quarter underneath my bed today.

[Combinebobnt]

This port move is pretty positive because carn was too much of a dick that it finally made everybody move away from his forum fiascos and now development can continue smoothly. Also, if you want all the old stuff just load up skulltag_data.pk3 as a pwad to winner at life.

[Krispy]

OK, I guess I have no control over this switch, but does it really need to have such a stupid name? I couldn't possibly tell anyone that I play something called 'Zandronum'. I would look like an idiot.

[ibm5155]

wazzup =D
So i don´t wanna dislike carn even because he created the start of this great port (a little limited but it´s better than zdaemon[in mod])
But it really needs to off the skulltag forum? that part i didn´t get it very right....

This name argh, i still can´t decorate it lol, i´m remembering zandiraia for some reason :S

Hmm what more a colored crazy avatar and a strange name port, sounds nice =D, well, This´s going to have some graphical add-on? (maybe something from vavoom or...)

Last question, zandronum is gpl?

[Monsoon]

OK seriously what the fuck why... just WHY?

make a poll for the fate of the skulltag content staying as separate pk3s or being removed from zandronum:

A. those who want the content to stay as separate optional pk3's. (aka everyone else)

B. those who DON'T want the content to stay as separate optional pk3's. (aka the zandronum devs)

[infurnus]

Wait, what? It's still separate optional pk3s

Just load skulltag_data.pk3 with anything that might need it, or let it sit there until you need it later
(here's a mirror, can't remember where else it's hosted offhand: http://dl.dropbox.com/.../Doom/skulltag_data-v098d.zip)

[ibm5155]

man just do a compatibility_pack.pk3, use this in mods that require the old skulltag stuff for working

[infurnus]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or anything but I was pretty much puzzled due to the fact that the Development team for Zandronum is pretty much removing all the ST features too. I mean, I thought the runes, the weapons and the extra game modes were quite innovative..yea I liked those things.
[...]
I am highly confused, even though reading all the posts here, I'm just wondering....what is this source port's objective? is this continuing skulltag? if so, how? are new maps, weapons or items, or whatever will be introduced? I'm just wondering....

From the post above yours:

All ST actors still exists inside the zandronum.pk3, but they just lack sprites and sounds.

We may be moving out the actors that are not crucial for the game modes (like the monsters and weapons) to a separate, optional pk3 possibly called skulltag_actors.pk3. In any case you should be able to use those actors in the future by loading some optional pk3s.

If you manually load skulltag_data.pk3 with Zandronum (it still has the data they need) you can use that as a backwards compatibility thing.

This´s going to have some graphical add-on? (maybe something from vavoom or...)
Last question, zandronum is gpl?

It's still the ol' GZDoom GL, and the same license as before if I'm not mistaken.

Two answer multiple people:
Zandronum is basically a fork of SkullTag, so it's the same license and whatnot, just a new name and logo, and with more focused development.

Staff are working on a better FAQ(No offense to Igor) and stuff that will hopefully help

[Nubcakes]

I don't really mind where or what the devs do, but I don't think it's asking too much to ask that they don't murder backwards compatibility with a rusty spork.

I Know skulltag_data.pk3 works now and there doesn't seem to be any problems(yet), but I cant shake the feeling that in the not-so-distant future the devs will decide to add stuff(sounds,graphics,script IDs, ect) that overrides previous Skulltag content thus breaking compatibility of Zandronum content with Skulltag Content. EXA: Not being able to use ALL skulltag content and ALL Zandronum content at the same time.

I get the feeling the Devs do not WANT to support backwards compatibility. It almost feels like they are only supporting it now to gather as many skulltag followers as possible only screw everyone over with the next major update...

I look forward to the Dev's response...

[esselfortium]

One of the primary issues is that many of the resources included with Skulltag are illegally sourced from commercial games. Beyond that, many of the resources are also of incredibly poor quality. Thus, their use is not going to be encouraged in new projects.

It should go without saying, though, that backwards compatibility with existing mods is obviously an important issue. I can't imagine that it would ever be intentionally eliminated.

[Dusk]

I get the feeling the Devs do not WANT to support backwards compatibility. It almost feels like they are only supporting it now to gather as many skulltag followers as possible only screw everyone over with the next major update...

I look forward to the Dev's response...

Trust me - this fork-off only happened because it had to. We ran out of options. And skulltag_data.pk3 is an unfortunate casualty.

[scalliano]

So I finally found this place. Let's get the obvious question out of the way:

Since this is basically a fresh start for the project, any plans to bring it up to par with ZDoom's current codebase? Just wondering.

[ibm5155]

One of the primary issues is that many of the resources included with Skulltag are illegally sourced from commercial games. Beyond that, many of the resources are also of incredibly poor quality. Thus, their use is not going to be encouraged in new projects.

It should go without saying, though, that backwards compatibility with existing mods is obviously an important issue. I can't imagine that it would ever be intentionally eliminated.

like most of the mods was illegal, oh yeah, lets put the skulltag dud in the jail xD

but now, we could use it, and then replace for legal files...

[Nubcakes]

On that note; could someone compile a list of illegal and possibly illegal content in it?

Perhaps as ibm5155 suggested the community could help start replacing the legally questionable content with content that is close, but different enough avoid legal problems.

I also request an example of resources that are "of incredibly poor quality"