Mobius wrote:You and Jenova are objectively wrong as much as I dislike waking up to read my clan's scrim result. A scrim has no "standard" of play and can be played on any server with any mapset. IDL20XX is just a wad for the IDL and has been the de facto wad of choice only because everyone is familiar with it, but really a scrim transcends CTF and can be in any gamemode/wad both parties agree to.
It's called a comfort zone.
Scrims can be played in whatever setting they'd like, but isn't a CTF wad that is commonly played by a good 95% of the CTF players, by definition, a standard?
Also, this is the same crowd that has stuck to their "if you want to challenge us, you'll have to agree to playing in our homemade servers in our own outdated CTF pack" M.O. for years. It's weird to have such demands when a huge percentage of the community plays a different CTF wad from them, and in a stable dedicated server (be it FC+ or GV). Ultimately, it is their choice to stay in their comfort zone, although they shouldn't be expecting many clans to agree to such terms.
They've long crossed the line when they started bragging about their wins and insulting those who lost to them (they also think they can hide their insults by speaking in Spanish, which never worked on me in particular). They've been like that every time I watched them play against clans I'm familiar with a few years ago, and if their
not-so-subtle bragging is any indication, I wouldn't put it past them to be the more or less the same as they were since then. That would be like me saying I'm objectively a better dueler than you because I beat you in SIPOOMA in a server I hosted in my own house, for example. Indeed, I would have proven myself to be the better player, but only under several conditions that heavily benefited me, and under very unpopular and irregular settings. Nobody in their right minds would give me credibility if I claimed that. But a scenario like that would be "fair" grounds, according to these 3D (aka re-branded ARG/PT) guys.
cenou wrote:
By this i meant what if i challenged you to beat me while you have 250 ping and i have 10 / so a challenge can either be on fair grounds or can be a challenge of what you can do under unfair circumstances
That would defeat the point of a challenge in the first place. The idea of a challenge is to pit yourself (or your team/clan/group) against somebody else to prove
something. That's why you usually propose actual fair grounds, or even circumstances that benefit the person/group you're challenging if you're feeling that confident: because it could give you bragging rights to say you are better than them under fair settings or scenarios that would normally give your opponent(s) the edge. So why'd you challenge somebody and propose settings that give
you the advantage? That would give you a lot less to brag about if you won, not to mention your offer would look less attractive to whoever you're challenging, which is one good reason why there have been quite a few challenges that were never greenlit in the past. Hope this makes sense. c:
Vegeta wrote:
I don't want to intervene in others busyness, but aren't clan wars different than regular scrims? From the way I see it, a scrim is a casual competition and a clan war is more like an event that attempts to prove which clan is more skilled.
For the way it was planned (despite the initial post that uses the word "scrim") this looks like a clan war, and therefore requires conditions for both sides to show their best. Even if ithat means to play 2 maps in idl CTF and 2 maps in Hexen dm if that's what allows each clan to bring their best.
Maybe so. But do you think any clan worth their money would care enough about mappacks or settings nobody else plays (and for good reason) to accept a challenge like that? And even if they did, they would hardly treat that as a serious and fair clanwar. We're not that close-minded on maps to play, but the STCTFMP ones you guys love to play were long proven to be competitively inviable (see Jenova and Rust's posts). Mapsets like Velocity CTF, RageCTF and CoreCTF play much better in comparison.
Vegeta wrote:
The arbitrary concept of imposing conditions because that's what "everyone" plays and stfu if you don't like it is probably the main reason that's making the competitive scene disappear (that and the fact that while there are many new young players the average player isn't getting younger).
"Standards are evil!!!!111" Except that never actually hurt any competitive scenes I know of, except when the standards were badly designed to begin with (not the fact that they existed in the first place, mind you). Also, new players are new players regardless of age, gender, race and whatnot, but I'll assume you meant to say that there's not a large enough influx of new players, which I don't disagree with.
Vegeta wrote:I understand the other point of view too, but if you're the one that is desperate to play against 3D you should be more flexible. I don't think it's necessary to insult an entire country, half a continent, or the person, just because he has a different point of view on something as trivial as a game.
I suppose it's not just the different wad preferences, but also how your bunch used to misbehave (insulting/trolling) and/or have complete disregard for speaking English. Although I'm sure somebody else here knows more than I do on this matter.
Vegeta wrote:We tend to forget that this is a 22 years old game, its multiplayer community will not last forever, we should treat each other with at least a minimal respect. I didn't have the best behavior some years ago, but this is the way I think now.
Of course! That's why some posts were split from this thread. If 3D has already declined this clanwar offer, then I believe there isn't much else to be discussed at this point. :P
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