All Out War II: X -R8: Now with Rhinos, Lightning Troopers, and more!

[Espio]

and PLS Remove bad crates out of the 3500$ random crate or at least decrease the chance to get a bad crate from there a lot.
I mean: Why should I buy a 3500$ with the same risk getting a bad one? Then I can just take the free one. There should be a sense for paying it at home, instead of getting it for free outside. Otherwise no one will pay it.

You're willing to take the risk of buying it safely rather than going out and TDM'ing to camp a map's crate spawn or someone else taking it from you.

[De-M-oN]

Oh I see in r5 the laser chaingun got already a damage increase. Ok then sorry about that.
Same for the c4

- Timed C4 is now less noisy.

Seemed to be intentional. Didnt know it was. Then I let it to a neutral opinion at this point to this.
_
Thx for increasing damage for tib rifle as well. so much thx.

And also thank you for buffing the beacon hp.

But the buildings:

Does it mean that even the obelisk has now the same hp like a war factory?
hmm I dont know if I will like that, but my feel says I wouldnt.
The obelisk should be weaker.

- Missile Launcher does not spawn fire anymore when it explodes.

Why?

! Plasma Cannon ammo is not given from backpacks anymore.

hmm..
that may lead to be annoying. maybe give it 15 shots then? When there is a mech rush to defend I dont want to go back to barracks everytime. Mechs take some shots. I would say then raise to 15 ammo.

And this I hate:

++ More removal/toning down on effects

I hate it so much.
I have 500 to 800 fps at 2560x1600 in this game. I just dont want it. Give us a package with full effects or make graphic options/cvars for this. I dont want to suffer from this, only because some people have stone age computer.

++ As requested, many effects such fire and smoke has been toned down to help people with weaker computers.

And you see it clearly that you toned them down. And it annoys me. They look now half as epic. Stop it. Please stop it forcing it to all people. It SHOULD be possible to do such things OPTIONAL. I would rather appreciate even more and better effects instead of the opposite. PLEASE think about it.

And this:

++ A lot of songs compressed.

I remember the songs were already heavy compressed to 64 kbit and such .. Even more now?

This extreme excessive compression I dont want as well. Then offer a highres music pack. ZDoom Wars offers this as well.
I'm not at ISDN connection.

Really : Its nice and its fully understandable that you want to help lower spec computers and lower bandwidths, BUT this should be really optional. Thats why games have graphic options. So that people with better hardware dont have to suffer from people with lower hardware.

Because at the moment we have the vice versa case: You help the lower hardware people, but the higher hardware people have to suffer from this. You just do a vice versa effect with this.

The other major point of the tickets system was to eventually end matches because it was too hard to destroy buildings with all the utility stuff on every corner, and the matches would go on forever. I guess if this gets addressed too, the tickets system itself will eventually lose ground.

They wouldnt. Suicide bombers kills a lot of defenses. Mechs do, mechs can withstand some defense attack and can reach some attacks to buildings
Plasma cannon does a lot of damage, c4 does lots of damage.

The lives system is the game slowdown, because you have to play so damn defensive with it. So you wouldnt destroy a big sandbag wall with a suicide bomber if you have to care about lives.

It doesn't matter that he's slow. It doesn't matter that he can't turn invisible. Builder class has way more offensive potential than all the other classes by far, even timecop, a class that costs 2k, notifies everyone when bought, and has the ability to randomly teleport into the enemy's base. Nerf, this, class. and yes, this happens regularly, it's becoming common now for players to utility rush the enemy base near the beginning of the game, and it usually works.Also, yes, I'm not the only person that hates this, most other people hate this. Want to know how I know? Because when that player bombed blue team, a server of 10 players (not counting specs) suddenly dropped to a server of no players. The enemy team all ragequit and no more rounds were played after that, and it's fairly common for the victimized team to ragequit when multiple buildings suddenly explode because a utility guy drowned them in like 20 c4 within the first eight minutes of the round.

That could be so easy solved.
Just remove its ability to build c4 packs/refills with c4 in it

So that it cant build c4 anymore.

[Slim]

I have 500 to 800 fps at 2560x1600 in this game. I just dont want it. Give us a package with full effects or make graphic options/cvars for this. I dont want to suffer from this, only because some people have stone age computer.

Implying people need a top of the line PC to play a frickin' Doom MOD.

EDIT: Back on-topic: CVars for effects would be nice, since some of the effects are obstructive sometimes.

[Catastrophe]

No the obelisk doesn't have the same hp as warfactory, it's not a building. It still has 15,000 hp.

[Untitled]

Yeah, when arguing about graphics options; you really really really really should use ClientSide-CVars. They seriously solve all of those problems.

so do it

do it

you won't regret it

[k4r4t3k4n4k4s]

That could be so easy solved.
Just remove its ability to build c4 packs/refills with c4 in it

So that it cant build c4 anymore.

I like De-M-oN's thinking because his feedback is much about game play value. Making the game more fun.

But the above would kill the funniest part of the game for me. Surprise c4 attack OR supplying c4 repacks to team players. This isn't easy - this is damn hard. And therefore the more rewarding. You can also hide c4 packs in field and then use it as stealth. So I say again please refrain from limiting possibilities to do stuff.

I'm also not sure about changes of the lives system. Basically it has been like this forever and I don't really see a problem with it. If it was removed It'd give people even more reason to ragequit since you would encounter more "can't win" situations.

But I do agree that the lives system could be reviewed and tested. For my part I think the idea that always having lives enabled is also interesting - not just in SD. But give it a decent number of lifes. Like I don't know 250, 500 ? and as already stated 5 lifes for a mech - that's totally unpedagocial at the moment.. noobs just never get that and that's very frustrating.

[Konda]

The lives system is the game slowdown, because you have to play so damn defensive with it. So you wouldnt destroy a big sandbag wall with a suicide bomber if you have to care about lives.

I am pretty sure the 'defensive' strategy goes as far as not entering the enemy's base. But there are still players all over the field killing each other. Ultimately the match ends on lives faster than it would if there were no lives and you had to kill every building.

The mechs can indeed survive the defenses, but by the time they get there, the other team already knows about them and is full with anti-mech weapons or even mechs. Last time I rushed with a mech just to take down enemy's defenses during SD I got killed in literally less than 10 seconds. Anti-mech stuff was flying everywhere. It may seem like I'm overexaggerating the 10 seconds thing, but during combat 10 seconds is hella long.
Note that I am implying this behavior in big matches, which is 6v6 or higher (for me).

Anyway, if I do remember correctly, matched did last longer before the lives system got introduced. I am going to do a bit of research on the changelogs just in case. I can't find the "added lives/tickets system" in any omega build's changelog (at least not on this thread) so I'm going to assume that this was done way back in the sigma versions, which was a very long time ago.

[De-M-oN]

The matches were longer because the buildings didnt got reduced health. 4xc4 couldnt kill a building as well. We had also no suicide bombers which can kill lots of defenses.

Only defending wont help the team. It will lose from time. It has to attack as well. Or how does the team plan to take down the enemy?

Both teams will attack then. Not just one.

Lives system forces a team to play defensively. In addition to that they start doing mech hunts, because of the bigger lives loss for the enemy. I just point to the explicit suicide bomber attacks on mechs and so on.

You have to think about how the game would be changed then and not just thinking away the lives but considering the same situation with lives. With lives the game is played in an other way and very defensive, mech hunting and frag hunting. Thats lives system.

And thats not the way the game should be played. The goal of the game should remain the base/buildings. It shouldnt turn into a TLMS game. And I will never see a team as a winner, who won with only one building intact while the ticket loss team had all buildings at green level. For me the other team is the winner. Its getting especially ridiculous if that last building was a useless war factory on a non-mech map.

You just think about the situation with the lives system and its playstyle. -> pls consider how the game would change if you wouldnt have to care about lives.

If the match really last unexpected even longer than before instead of shorter which is what I would assume - there are sure lots of better ways for compensating that.

Like making the buildings in SD more vulnerable to other weapons as well (for example Artillery cannon does 5% instead of 1% damage, make c4 do more outside damage etc
or: use even less than 50% HP for them. They would die faster.

There are sure solutions.

edit:

Like making the buildings in SD more vulnerable to other weapons as well (for example Artillery cannon does 5% instead of 1% damage, make c4 do more outside damage etc

If I think about this, you could really do this.

This wouldnt require to attack the base by mechs. All would have a chance to win and this shouldnt get people ragequit - they can kill the buildings in many ways this way. not just beacons or mech rush - which is the point why people quitted when some buildings lost, because of no seeing of a chance. With many ways to damage the buildings in a decent way they could see a chance.

---

oh lol I read the thread now a little bit the first posts - and so: If I kill a barracks a player can still buy commando class and all other ?

Why did I make the effort to kill it then at all?

25% price increase would be too low as well. At least 50%. 25% is nothing.

Even a 1000$ Commando would be only 1250 with 25% more. Thats nothing.

Other idea instead of removing cutting classes of:

Add a construction yard. As long as it lives, you can reactivate a building with a high or very high amount of money.
If the construction yard is gone, you cant do that anymore.
Or alternative: menu item for this at research center. So reactivating a building would depend on the existence of the RC.

Killing a building should definitely hurt the enemy. If the enemy can still buy high tier infantry after I've destroyed barracks would disappoint me..
what about warfactory and so on? WF still removes ability to build mechs?

__

And is it maybe possible that the menu navigation is also visible in demo playback?

And if the damn lives system stays - I hope the poll wins. It will help at least.

[Catastrophe]

Ok patch is out, changelog can be seen here: http://pastebin.com/SXdmpzeg

I will be taking a little break from modding, unless something dire comes up don't expect an update for a couple weeks.

[De-M-oN]

! Destroying buildings during sudden death wasn't removing tickets, now it should.

YES! thank you :)

A step forward :)

! No more troll ion/nukes.

Means what? What is changed?

[Catastrophe]

! No more troll ion/nukes.

Means what? What is changed?

Try nuking your own base in a server.

[De-M-oN]

oh ok.

But they'll still troll it into a bush. But not in own base has a big advantage not being irritated which noise is our beacon and which the enemy one - when more than one is planted. So a good step forward :)

Now fix that beacons dont do outside damage pls.

[Konda]

If the match really last unexpected even longer than before instead of shorter which is what I would assume - there are sure lots of better ways for compensating that.

I agree. All I'm pointing out is that the lives system was used to speed up the game. It may not have been the smartest thing to do (it's actually the laziest and the most irresponsible thing to do to 'solve' a problem imo) and I am personally against it because it misses the point of the game.

But until those 'problems' get fixed, the lives system should stay. I do acknowledge that even after there are a legitimate number of ways to destroy the enemy's buildings (even when yours are gone), players will still not attack them because they will want to preserve the lives (or as you put it, they will play 'defensively'). The next step after that would be to remove the lives system.

If it ever happens, the sudden removal of the lives system will leave an impact on aow2's gameplay and people may not like it. People are very sensitive to chages - I could already see a number of people being critical of the small changes that AOW2X brings.

If it's going to get to the point of removing the lives system, it's not going to be soon. But I have a reason to believe that we'll eventually get there.

[De-M-oN]

People will cry for sure. Because they wont win their SSG TLMS anymore.

[Yellowtail]

If the match really last unexpected even longer than before instead of shorter which is what I would assume - there are sure lots of better ways for compensating that.

I agree. All I'm pointing out is that the lives system was used to speed up the game. It may not have been the smartest thing to do (it's actually the laziest and the most irresponsible thing to do to 'solve' a problem imo) and I am personally against it because it misses the point of the game.

But until those 'problems' get fixed, the lives system should stay. I do acknowledge that even after there are a legitimate number of ways to destroy the enemy's buildings (even when yours are gone), players will still not attack them because they will want to preserve the lives (or as you put it, they will play 'defensively'). The next step after that would be to remove the lives system.

If memory serves, before the lives system was implemented, servers would implement a time limit so that the games wouldn't drag on. However, I feel this is just as cheap as placing a lives system in there, as it wouldn't even be a race to destroy all enemy buildings, but rather a race to see who can net the most points in an allotted amount of time.

Honestly, there may be a lot you can do to help put emphasis on being more offensive, but removal of the tickets may severely hurt it more than anything, as much as I hate to admit it. ...unless you want to go with the extremely illogical way of "buildings gradually lose health that cannot be repaired".

...though, that may work if implemented correctly, I still feel that would be really illogical.

[De-M-oN]

Why you still think the matches would last longer without lives?

Go to full offensive, implement more outside damage from normal weapons at SD, You can use suicide bombers for defenses in SD because no lives, you can use mechs at will.

I really dont see where the buildings should last long on a full offensive situation like it would be then.

[Medicris]

I agree. Without the fear of heavy ticket losses in an aggressive base attack, people would be much more willing to actually go all-out and kill buildings rather than decide to turtle to preserve lives and hope to whittle down the aggressors's tickets.

Yeah sure, you can say it goes both ways. People will turtle anyways to protect their base, right? Except now retreating to base would let the other team take mid and cement a mech and artillery force there to bombard the base with. Without repairing to save them, the turtling team will lose unless they make a push strong enough to retake mid. CTF, Team Fortress, pretty much any team game with "bases" are all about rewarding being as aggressive as a situation allows, right? Why not here?

Tickets were something I never saw as a necessary mechanic, 4x damage to buildings and the inability to repair them should be a big enough boost to break a stalemate through building attrition without introducing yet another arbitrary hard limit/exception to the formula.

[De-M-oN]

I think I found a bug:

I bought a armor upgrade, but wanted to go suicide bomber. Saw that this version already disallow it to have it with suicide bomber. So I took a free class, went back to barracks and resigned.
Although I have resigned it said to me I cant use suicide bomber with my equipment. But why? resigning removes the armor upgrade.

It only worked again as I died.

[Guardsoul]

Reporting: Smoke generators near waterfall in AOW09 can be moved if something explodes near them, this can be an annoyance if they reach a base entrance where they dont allow nobody see shit.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Espio]

^ lol yeah I noticed that too few weeks ago. Really odd.