Reviving Competition

[uggi121]

I know there have been many attempts already, but this time, I have an idea to use the existing resources to revive competition. Well, I'm new to competition, started this February, but I heard it way more active than this a few years back with private ctf everyday along with scrims. As many of us know, there was this ELO system brought out by Water. If someone could get his consent and host those special servers which did support zan++ and etc. competition would be much better with players coming more often to play and some players returning just for this.

One more possible thing that can be done incase the hosting of these special servers aren't possible, is the usage of the IRC channel #priv. Loads of users idle there, so if some active member could take ownership of that channel, we could have privs everyday as I am pretty sure loads of people are online(In relativity to Doom) There have been many attempts of organized matches which didn't go well, but I'm pretty sure bringing back private CTF in action will bring lots of players back to the port. There's no need for any signups and organization here ;)

HOWEVER, these are my opinions and I feel competition will rise if either of these can be implemented seriously it is mostly just IRC stuff and not organizing a specific date and time because I'm pretty sure private CTF when the ELO servers were there occurred at every time of the day

[capodecima]

This ELO privs are dead. Only if water come back he can host it. But dunno if this ever happens, maybe when 2.0 release. We all play odamex.

[uggi121]

Well that indeed is my point. Someone should get Water's permission and host ELO servers again

[Lollipop]

You should play because it is fun, not because of some ranking system tells you that you got a reason to brag, the only real reason to brag is to take up the discussion about who the better player is on duel32.
We must not forget that doom is doom, and it should be played thereafter.

[IdeIdoom]

ELO will never come back, unless water wants to. The account system, though, will be in zan 2.0 and water's zan++ unlagged.

The only hope, rumors say, is that Jenova -MIGHT- do an ELO based system of his own.

[Nati46]

You should play because it is fun, not because of some ranking system tells you that you got a reason to brag, the only real reason to brag is to take up the discussion about who the better player is on duel32.
We must not forget that doom is doom, and it should be played thereafter.

Regardless the ELO system does have a large potential to boost competition as evident in other games that implement it - the aspiration to have the highest 'rating' makes it a competition by itself -and while this induces bragging (which with or without ELO will still be there, and you can just ignore it, really), its cons will still outweight this IMO.

[uggi121]

Well yes, the ELO system has pros and cons of its own. Let's say our hope lies on Jenova and let's leave it there now.

See the #priv channel. I'm pretty sure that a minimum of 20 people idle there. The MOST common problem we have is the fact that clans usually have 2 members at a time and when one leaves another comes and scrims cannot happen, so the utilization of the #priv to make way for normal Private CTF will be a great boost to competition without any of the "bragging" faced by the ELO systems and is also a very simple solution

[capodecima]

Regardless the ELO system does have a large potential to boost competition as evident in other games that implement it - the aspiration to have the highest 'rating' makes it a competition by itself -and while this induces bragging (which with or without ELO will still be there, and you can just ignore it, really), its cons will still outweight this IMO.

http://pr0gramm.com/#newest/*/118561/20 ... ddl1-460sa

Also ELO is used in many team competitive games for mainly reason, make game ballanced. Water's ELO system was really great mainly bcz it could attract new players play. I know there are always some newbies on priv but they never get picked so never come back. With Water's ELO system this could be fixed. :). Old players like me dont play for ELO and bragging about it (besides Stall and jake bcz Rosking is jelly as fuck). We play bcz we love doom.

[uggi121]

Regardless the ELO system does have a large potential to boost competition as evident in other games that implement it - the aspiration to have the highest 'rating' makes it a competition by itself -and while this induces bragging (which with or without ELO will still be there, and you can just ignore it, really), its cons will still outweight this IMO.

http://pr0gramm.com/#newest/*/118561/20 ... ddl1-460sa

Also ELO is used in many team competitive games for mainly reason, make game ballanced. Water's ELO system was really great mainly bcz it could attract new players play. I know there are always some newbies on priv but they never get picked so never come back. With Water's ELO system this could be fixed. :). Old players like me dont play for ELO and bragging about it (besides Stall and jake bcz Rosking is jelly as fuck). We play bcz we love doom.

I agree, new players could get picked with the rand teams function. If only those servers did exist now :c But hopefully we can priv often by getting people from the #priv channel itself as I stated already

[Lollipop]

The random teams will give a lot of peole "a legitimate reason to be pissed and rage on their team memebrs for being noobs", if you know what I mean. (not really that I give a fuck about those people personally, but if I went directly into competetive play when I first discovered multiplayer doom, then I would never have come back because new players do not want the feel of standing alone on an island surrounded by sharks)

I think that the ELO system will be fine, the reason I really had something against waters system is because of the permanent statistics tracking. I have absolutely no interest in knowing just how many times I have gotten a kill or died, what fucking matters is how I am now and not how I was fucking 20 years ago. I personally see that as nonsense dwelling in the past for no appearent reason.

Now I realise this will probably get rage, but due to how things are with international lawgiving I have the full right to post my thoughts, feelsings and other things that are specific to me that will give you a reason, be it legitimate or not in anyone opinion, to rage at me or start a flamewar. Picking a fight with me based on my thoughts will get ignored horribly, so get a life and play doom.
(and if you took this block of text seriously I must admit I'm better at trolling than I thought, cheers ;))

EDIT: the last block of the text people, if you see three blocks as one, try to reset your zoom or go to your doctor, you might have an eyesight problem.

[capodecima]

The random teams will give a lot of peole "a legitimate reason to be pissed and rage on their team memebrs for being noobs", if you know what I mean. (not really that I give a fuck about those people personally, but if I went directly into competetive play when I first discovered multiplayer doom, then I would never have come back because new players do not want the feel of standing alone on an island surrounded by sharks)

I think that the ELO system will be fine, the reason I really had something against waters system is because of the permanent statistics tracking. I have absolutely no interest in knowing just how many times I have gotten a kill or died, what fucking matters is how I am now and not how I was fucking 20 years ago. I personally see that as nonsense dwelling in the past for no appearent reason.

Now I realise this will probably get rage, but due to how things are with international lawgiving I have the full right to post my thoughts, feelsings and other things that are specific to me that will give you a reason, be it legitimate or not in anyone opinion, to rage at me or start a flamewar. Picking a fight with me based on my thoughts will get ignored horribly, so get a life and play doom.
(and if you took this block of text seriously I must admit I'm better at trolling than I thought, cheers ;))

Lol you are like the guy which went somewhere, and after when he was there, he forgot why he went there.

[Marcaek]

Lollipop if you're going to post shit you don't expect to be taken seriously why bother at all?

[Nati46]

The random teams will give a lot of peole "a legitimate reason to be pissed and rage on their team memebrs for being noobs", if you know what I mean. (not really that I give a fuck about those people personally, but if I went directly into competetive play when I first discovered multiplayer doom, then I would never have come back because new players do not want the feel of standing alone on an island surrounded by sharks)

This bashing is definitely not exclusive for doom and if you are an experienced gamer then you already know it, and if you (or anybody) are interested in taking your gaming to a higher level (and hence playing priv), you need to deal with this 'bashing' and just not take it personally. For example, I recently got into tier4 in QL, and I am of course bad compared to the players there and bashing is extremely common. But I just suck it up and deal with it. I can guarantee you that the majority of priv players have experienced this 'bashing' at some point or another from at least one other player, so you are not special (and neither is any new player) Just learn to ignore it and have fun, it's all in your head and they aren't gonna affect you if you dont let them do it. I don't agree with it personally but obviously it won't keep others from doing it.

I think that the ELO system will be fine, the reason I really had something against waters system is because of the permanent statistics tracking. I have absolutely no interest in knowing just how many times I have gotten a kill or died, what fucking matters is how I am now and not how I was fucking 20 years ago. I personally see that as nonsense dwelling in the past for no appearent reason.

As you play and improve more your current performance will overlap what you started with stat wise; again other games are no different in this, you can do what people do if they want to get the best stats; create a new account after you become better.

Now I realise this will probably get rage, but due to how things are with international lawgiving I have the full right to post my thoughts, feelsings and other things that are specific to me that will give you a reason, be it legitimate or not in anyone opinion, to rage at me or start a flamewar. Picking a fight with me based on my thoughts will get ignored horribly, so get a life and play doom.
(and if you took this block of text seriously I must admit I'm better at trolling than I thought, cheers ;))

Why are you trolling then?

[Catastrophe]

Gonna tell you right now water's elo system isn't coming back for a really dumb reason. I'd love to come back to CTF and hope Zandronum's upcoming account system will pull through, but considering that it takes almost a year for an official release I don't have the attention span for that. Priv might even die before that account system comes out. After waters elo system was gone I've only seen two private CTF sessions in a whole week whereas there was priv everyday for 8 hours straight.

[Ruin]

Gonna tell you right now water's elo system isn't coming back for a really dumb reason...After waters elo system was gone I've only seen two private CTF sessions in a whole week whereas there was priv everyday for 8 hours straight.

That's unfortunate. I was really looking forward to giving it a go.

[Ru5tK1ng]

The random teams will give a lot of peole "a legitimate reason to be pissed and rage on their team memebrs for being noobs", if you know what I mean.

It wasn't exactly 'random'. It used ELO to determine team balancing and had it not been taken down so soon, everyone would have settled into a proper ELO ranking and the balanced would have worked nearly perfectly. I also must note that when water's system was up, the raging wasn't as widespread as some people tend to think. Players of all skill kept coming back regardless of wins and losses. In fact the only one to rage quit was Dastan and that was because he was raging at his own performance in each game. . . Well there was Capo too, but he rage quits everything so he doesn't count.

I think that the ELO system will be fine, the reason I really had something against waters system is because of the permanent statistics tracking. I have absolutely no interest in knowing just how many times I have gotten a kill or died, what fucking matters is how I am now and not how I was fucking 20 years ago. I personally see that as nonsense dwelling in the past for no appearent reason.

You're obviously a minority. A LOT of competitive players love stats. It's not just for bragging rights. Stats can help a player determine what they excel at and what they need to improve on if they want to get better.

last paragraph of blah blah

I don't think anyone could become full of rage after reading your posts. It comes off confusing more than anything. It is true that you have the right to express whatever though process is running in your head. I too will exercise the same right and express myself. It appears your posts are just a bunch of random statements that obviously come from someone who doesn't even participate in competitive dueling or CTF. In other words you really don't know what you are talking about and I suggest you stop posting. (Especially if you are just going to make bad attempts at trolling);

[AlexMax]

Water's ELO system required a modified server because Zandronum has no real persistence layer. Not only are accounts coming, but so is actual database support. The database layer will be usable from ACS, so mod authors can roll their own ELO and record-keeping system (which will displace the need for things like Jumpmaze's luk as well).

[Catastrophe]

Water's ELO system required a modified server because Zandronum has no real persistence layer. Not only are accounts coming, but so is actual database support. The database layer will be usable from ACS, so you can roll your own ELO and record-keeping system (which will displace the need for things like Jumpmaze's luk as well).

Is it safe to ask how long it will take until this gets released?

[AlexMax]

Water's ELO system required a modified server because Zandronum has no real persistence layer. Not only are accounts coming, but so is actual database support. The database layer will be usable from ACS, so you can roll your own ELO and record-keeping system (which will displace the need for things like Jumpmaze's luk as well).

Is it safe to ask how long it will take until this gets released?

Torr would probably be a better one to ask on the database side. He's already integrated the database and has been working on the internal C++ API, but it's not hooked up to ACS yet as far as I know.

As far as authentication goes, Torr's Zandronum "Accounts" fork is currently capable of doing an authentcation session with my authentication server that I call Charon. However, the game server doesn't actually do anything with the authentication information yet, and there isn't a nice clientside interface for logging in yet. Meanwhile, I am working on the web-facing part of charon that allows people to sign up and control their profiles...which is just a standard webapp. The tricky bit of making sure the authentication protocol and primitives worked as advertised is behind us.

Hopefully I gave you a little idea of how far along we are and what we have yet to do. I can't really give you a timeline. But this is not a blue sky "nice to have" that will happen someday maybe I dunno, it's something we're both actively working on.

If you want to track what we're working on, CCing yourself on the bug I linked above is probably your best bet.

[Lollipop]

I am not going to do the quotefest on this one.

Now, first of all my parenthesis on the last >>block of my post<< should have said paragraph and not block, which was the whole meaning of that, the first 2/3 of the post was in all it's seriousness.

Now I might be a part of a heavy minority, but I am still a part of the playerbase, and if I am too perfectionist to live with that 1 death on my score, then at least give me the option of turning the tracking of my stats off, just as I requested on the thread of waters. (which he appearntly selected to ignore because why not just dumb the discussion before it started? Nothing good would come out of it anyway, rite?)