Let's Talk

Public discussion of the forum software and other things run by Zandronum staff.
Watermelon
Zandrone
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:07 pm
Location: Rwanda

RE: Let's Talk

#1

Post by Watermelon » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:43 am

Staff are supposed to be the leaders, preferably community picked.
I agree
Different punishments for different people
This is a MAJOR problem with the administration.
I won't name names, but there's people who hack and get banned.
There're people who have hacked and banned but get unbanned, whereas others stay banned.
There's people who hack once, go into the staff channel and ask to get unbanned and are unbanned and told not to do it again.
There's people who get deals under the table to play under alias and won't get bothered.

While I am in support of less totalitarian ban-everything-kilgore admins that seem to be dominating the scene, I do support when a certain admin gives peoples deals under the table because that particular admin is at least trying to get people back into the game; rather than keeping people locked out. Of course this is not fair and this is just masks the problem.

There needs to be a fair set of rules. Anyone who is against this is obviously part of the problem or someone seeking intentional discord.
How is it that a certain group, who has also ritually proven to be a bad omen for the port, still manages to remain free despite their continued shenanigans and hostile intent?
For anyone who doesn't understand this point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
So long as there remains a private staff forum, there will never be the true transparency that is claimed by staff
In addition, a private staff and private admin channel, and who knows what else in the background...
Last edited by Watermelon on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ru5tK1ng
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 794
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 pm

RE: Let's Talk

#2

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:51 am

Time and time again I've noticed during my short tenure on Zandronum, the staff's credibility is consistently being questioned publicly every now and then. Perhaps if the community is unhappy with the way the staff handles PR, then maybe the option of staff reformation should be considered. Community picked staff? I'm not too sure about that one, however something should possibly be done.

User avatar
Hammerfest-
Forum Regular
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:45 am
Clan: A3.33333333333333333
Clan Tag: A3.33333333

RE: Let's Talk

#3

Post by Hammerfest- » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:53 am

Ru5tK1ng wrote: Time and time again I've noticed during my short tenure on Zandronum, the staff's credibility is consistently being questioned publicly every now and then. Perhaps if the community is unhappy with the way the staff handles PR, then maybe the option of staff reformation should be considered. Community picked staff? I'm not too sure about that one, however something should possibly be done.
Staff leaders should be community picked, however they should be people who are competent and understand what's going on within multiple areas (Competitive, development, community related issues, etc.) A lot of staff that actually did something back before Skulltag had initiated the fork either had been dropped or had been demoted to reserve moderators, while other staff that really had little influence had been given an opportunity to stick around. This first 'staff reform' was really a downgrade of what the staff had that made it efficient and kept forums nice and clean, but at the end of the day the decision was left to the admins and certain mods. Staff today is very disorganized, and I would like to point out that yes, a lot of decisions and moves that staff had made is very questionable. My best recommendation? Another staff reform, but not just a little simple demotions and drops, a serious reform should be considered at this point.
Swift as a breeze, fierce as a gale.

User avatar
Combinebobnt
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 1893
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:37 am
Location: Erth
Contact:

RE: Let's Talk

#4

Post by Combinebobnt » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:54 am

I remember a post long time ago talked about having staff uninvolved in the community, basically acting like a court of judges to eliminate bias as best as possible. Maybe something like that would work

User avatar
Samurai
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
Location: England
Clan: Lost Faction
Clan Tag: [LF]

RE: Let's Talk

#5

Post by Samurai » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:56 am

I think staff reforms have been long awaited, some people here are clearly out of their depth.

Code: Select all

00:11  <Jarin_cz>	i am pretty sure i have more doom friends than you

User avatar
Hypnotoad
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:50 pm
Location: Britland

RE: Let's Talk

#6

Post by Hypnotoad » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:05 am

Samurai wrote: I think staff reforms have been long awaited, some people here are clearly out of their depth.
I can agree with this.

P.S. I don't understand the need for that overly verbose addendum; it seems to be repeating what was already just said.

Reach Term
Forum Regular
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:45 pm

RE: Let's Talk

#7

Post by Reach Term » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:10 am

Hi, just here to psot this as this is related to the thread:

http://skulltagleaks.wordpress.com/

In a neutral opinion, something like this should've happen again.

User avatar
Cyber'
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:14 am
Location: Colorado
Clan: The Professionals
Clan Tag: <PRO>
Contact:

RE: Let's Talk

#8

Post by Cyber' » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:11 am

So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.
Last edited by Cyber' on Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Projects completed : PROCTF, Jump Maze, Tricky ST. RJX.Jump Maze X
Newest Project : Nothing at present.


Jumpmaze X post is here viewtopic.php?f=58&t=9981&p=115929#p115929
I always love these calm moments before the storm...

User avatar
Combinebobnt
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 1893
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:37 am
Location: Erth
Contact:

RE: Let's Talk

#9

Post by Combinebobnt » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:14 am

If a staff reform actually happens, it could be a democratic vote from the people with nominees suggested and reasons why to avoid bias
Last edited by Combinebobnt on Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Catastrophe
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 2558
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:44 am

RE: Let's Talk

#10

Post by Catastrophe » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:15 am

Cyber wrote: So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.
Jenova and Ru5tKing

Jenova - He is actually pretty reasonable with his decisions when it comes to moderation. Proof? Look at best-ever's administratorship, it's pretty good.

Ru5tKing - I think he's the most fair person in this port. He isn't biased and knows when to talk when something is out of line.

EDIT: On top of that lets remember the time when two people almost got master banned for posting a comment on youtube; something completely out of their jurisdiction: http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1944
Last edited by Catastrophe on Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Samurai
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
Location: England
Clan: Lost Faction
Clan Tag: [LF]

RE: Let's Talk

#11

Post by Samurai » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:17 am

Decay, but like that would ever happen

I would like to see the admin team focused more around Dynamo, and Razgriz, aswell as getting rid of a lot of the old staff who do nothing

Code: Select all

00:11  <Jarin_cz>	i am pretty sure i have more doom friends than you

User avatar
Hypnotoad
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:50 pm
Location: Britland

RE: Let's Talk

#12

Post by Hypnotoad » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:17 am

Cyber wrote: So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.
In another forum I was once a part of, when a mass protest of the current administration occurred the mods decided to create a new thread inviting any members to make their case as to why they should be considered as part of the moderation team, where the community was able to vote on their favorite. Of course the moderators still had some discretion over the final pick (as inevitably some troll voting did occur). Something you could consider.

User avatar
Ru5tK1ng
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 794
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 pm

RE: Let's Talk

#13

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:19 am

Cyber wrote: So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.
I'd say Jenova, (I won't toot my own horn), would make a suitable staff addition considering all the amount of effort, time and money he's contributed towards the community. Best-Ever server clusters are a large part of the zan community and it's quite obvious he cares about Zandronum. He's not a yes man and he's capable of being un-baised when he's on a serious note.

User avatar
infurnus
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 pm
Location: Dusty SEGA Tapes
Clan: Unidoom
Clan Tag: UD
Contact:

RE: Let's Talk

#14

Post by infurnus » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:22 am

Catastrophe wrote: Jenova
Jenova is already in #staff on IRC, so I don't think this is too far from reality
Samurai wrote: Decay, but like that would ever happen

I would like to see the admin team focused more around Dynamo, and Razgriz, aswell as getting rid of a lot of the old staff who do nothing
I wanted to downsize the staff group count, for example the Global Moderators and Moderators groups are redundant in terms of raw user privileges. (There's a lot of per-user stuff, for example mifu as a mod for the projects section, etc)

EDIT: Dynamo was a Global Mod but stepped down to regular Mod because of real life stuff and time constraints, if I recall correctly
Last edited by infurnus on Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hammerfest-
Forum Regular
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:45 am
Clan: A3.33333333333333333
Clan Tag: A3.33333333

RE: Let's Talk

#15

Post by Hammerfest- » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:23 am

Cyber wrote: So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.
I'll bite, and retort what I've previously said.

When Dynamo was a moderator and I was a previously active moderator before the first staff reform, the staff actually had efficiency and people had actually worked hard in to at least appeasing both staff needs and community needs. After the first staff reform, what happened? Dynamo was demoted to a reserve moderator, despite the fact that he actually had some great ideas to boost staff motivation and had actively worked for the community. I was forced to leave my position due to very ridiculous drama that should of been resolved and that I should of actually had support for back when Skulltag was still around. Ironically enough, the same person who initiated the staff reform before Zandronum had disappeared and is not currently with us. Take a guess? Zap610. Although truth be told I had no issues with Zap and I actually liked the guy, the staff reform was a big mistake, throwing out mods that were actually active and involved in competition as well, and those left behind are barely active nowadays, if honestly useful as well.

I for one recommend that Dynamo get a higher position in the staff. He deserves it, and he worked for it. He's been in staff for more than I have and without a doubt he would do a lot for the staff and for the benefit of the community. I won't nominate myself, but I don't see myself moderating the forums at this point because I really wouldn't even have the time, but I would be open to it if I could at least serve at a reserve mod.

Rustking is without a doubt unbiased, and is actually a good representive of the competitive community at this point, both in Zandronum and also has shown maturity on a lot of topics. My vote will go for Rustking as well.
Swift as a breeze, fierce as a gale.

Qent
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:56 pm
Contact:

RE: Let's Talk

#16

Post by Qent » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:29 am

Dynamo did have a higher position, but he stepped down because he had Real Life issues to attend to.

EDIT: Correction, he didn't step down, but he was not demoted for any difference of opinion.
Last edited by Qent on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Medicris
Forum Regular
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:29 am

RE: Let's Talk

#17

Post by Medicris » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:29 am

These are very real problems in the current affairs that have been quietly developing for years, and it cannot be swept under the rug any longer if we are to think of the long-term well-being of this port. This community and administration need to work as one to approach any given situation, and to choose the individuals that have the best representation of the community.

Personally, I see a need for less admins in general as a precautionary measure against inflexible bureaucracy getting in the way of judgements, and any possibility of staff members acting as vectors for others (whether conscious of it or not) or simply voting with the majority because they don't have a strong enough opinion on their own (whether conscious of it or not).

EDIT: Seeing as how this thread has progressed, I would just like to point out that I basically just believe some simplifying, restructuring and streamlining of the authority here would be beneficial to the port. The port is not massive, thus I think too many people in authority can get in the way of each other's decisions and progress like in many leaderships I have seen. This isn't Blizzard forums where you're managing hundreds of thousands of members, thus, I don't think a large administration team is the most effective approach, seen from personal experience with similar communities. I don't know what the hell else is going on in this thread.
Last edited by Medicris on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Watermelon
Zandrone
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:07 pm
Location: Rwanda

RE: Let's Talk

#18

Post by Watermelon » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:29 am

I think we'd be going in the opposite direction, IMO with the abundance of admins there needs to be a reform in the other direction rather than adding more onto this mess.

User avatar
Hammerfest-
Forum Regular
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:45 am
Clan: A3.33333333333333333
Clan Tag: A3.33333333

RE: Let's Talk

#19

Post by Hammerfest- » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:31 am

Qent wrote: Dynamo did have a higher position, but he stepped down because he had Real Life issues to attend to.
Did he? If I recall correctly the reason why he was brought down as a reserve moderator at the time was because his ideas and his suggestions weren't getting through to a lot of the staff members. So...what's going on here exactly? I know Dynamo is busy but I do also know, and even recall, that a lot of the stuff he suggested wasn't getting through to most of the staff and I was there for some of those times. Again...what's going on now here? Someone's not being truthful here.
Swift as a breeze, fierce as a gale.

Ruin
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:43 pm
Location: The auto-parts store
Contact:

RE: Let's Talk

#20

Post by Ruin » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:52 am

I'd rather not be voted off the island, but will respect community wishes if that's the case. Just throwing that out there.
"Secondly, <PRO> is utter shit, and they're only "known" because almost all of them are also staff." - /vr/

Locked