DM Revival - MANAGEMENT HELP NEEDED

[Doomkid]

Okay Guardsoul, I played your map, and the aesthetics are very nice. Are those lava falls supposed to be "still"? Other than that I really like it, seems it will play best in a 4-man FFA. Sparing use pf custom textures, I'm glad to see. If you want to make any changes to it down the road, that's fine too man. Nice stuff!

[Guardsoul]

Are those lava falls supposed to be "still"?

Nope, forgot to add this to the animdefs lump, add it yourself:

Code: Select all

texture lavfall1
	pic lavfall1 tics 8
	pic lavfall2 tics 8
	pic lavfall3 tics 8
	pic lavfall4 tics 8

[one_Two]

That's not a problem, Ogre - I will remove it from the next beta. Guardsoul, I will playtest your map thouroughly with a buddy and get back to you with some detailed feedback.

Here's where things start getting tough! Due to the huge amount of maps being submitted (about 40), we are going to have to conduct a vote to whitle the number down to about 25. The next beta is scheduled for May 1st, which is also the final deadline for (complete or incomplete) map submissions.

After the beta is compiled, we will conduct this vote. If your map is voted out, don't fret - All unused maps will be compiled into their own wad, which will be released alongside the final product.

This will probably be the toughest part of this whole operation! In one way or another, I really like each map submitted, so it will be hard to say 'no' to any of them.. But we can't have this thing be overfilled either. People tend to lose interest if mapsets go on for too long.

Use the next week to make any changes you see fit, tidy up your map or simply continue with it. Although May 1st is the deadline for submissions, it is certainly not the deadlne for detailing, fixing and such.

As always, I hope to hear back from you all soon - This is where things really start coming together for DMR!

Why not the classic number of 32?

I thought this as well, but that would leave the other wad with very few maps.

[Guardsoul]

About the map rotation I suggest to place the best maps at the end. WHY?
The reason is simple:

Players will think this about maps while they play them if you do that:
Not a bad map -> Its a good one -> Nice, even better than previous one -> Awesome -> etc, etc...

As you can see, you are always getting a better opinion becouse they will compare the map they are playing at the moment with those ones that have been already played.

If you place the best maps at the start...
Awesome map! -> It was better the previous map -> I prefer the first one -> etc etc

This is my opinion about this.

[Guardsoul]

It is best to scatter them, because nobody will continue playing a wad if it is bad maps at the front. First impressions are important.

But its supposed that at that point we wont have any crappy maps :V

[katZune]

It is best to scatter them, because nobody will continue playing a wad if it is bad maps at the front. First impressions are important.

@one_two if they didn't make the cut I'm not sure they are worth playing.

That being said odamex/zdaemon/zandronum are all capable of handling 40 map rotations, and I don't personally see a problem with including them all.

i agree, the first map is the impression, when i play a DM i always see the first maps, if the are shit i dont play the rest, and a recommend have many maps, you know, a big DM mapset =P

[W1D3A55]

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[Doomkid]

Hmm, it's interesting to see everyone's thoughts on this. Doesn't 32 maps seem somewhat daunting for a DM set? I'm not opposed to it, I was just thinking from personal experience. Basically every DM wad that is still played today has about 25 maps or far less - the UDM's, exec/brit, the DWANGO's, etc. Stuff thats 32+ (Sabbat Martyr, for example) seems to be left in the dust every time, but I want this to be a group concensus. Depending on what everyone thinks, we will determine the map number. None of this is set in stone, as of yet.

I want everything for this project to be decided by 'majority rules'.

[katZune]

yes is true most of dm have few maps but hey! lets make this a memorable DM!

[Doomkid]

Okay, I've recieved a lot of opinions about the 'map voting' situation, and I think it's best to just ask everyone individually if they think any of the presented maps aren't suitable. This means we may well end up with a 32 map set, depending on the responses.

And hey, if people are afraid of it being 'too big', I'll just point them in the direction of most other community projects - We want to make sure veryone gets a bit of mapping limelight :)

[Ogre]

My map is finished.
http://www.2shared.com/file/rUMZ1i9m/DMITC.html?

It is slightly edited from Doom_kid92's improvement on it.

[Enzo03]

The quality should be scattered about through the mappack, but I think that there should be some definitely good maps at the beginning and end of the pack as well. Shouldn't be hard to satisfy both of those.

[Doomkid]

I agree, Enzo. To those who are worried about their map not being included - This project has generated a lot of interest, so a second one down the track is a high possibility.

I'm sorry for the lack of updates lately! (Here comes some typical escuses) Between work, studying, my band and relationship issues, there's a buttload of things to focus on all at once. Yes, the next beta still comes out in 2 days!

The improvements to all of the incomplete maps have been great. Many narrow corridors have been widened, texture issues fixed (but not totally, I could use some help!) and a bunch of other ironed out bugs.

After this beta, there will be a voting process. The plans have stayed the same after all the feedback I've gotten - If you don't want to cast a vote in public, simply PM me with your thoughts. I'm hoping to hear back from everyone by May 10th with your votes, opinions and suggestions.

Once the voting process is complete, DMR will be at about 90%. After that any needed polish, texturing, etc. will be added to the remaining maps, slap the finalised music and MAPINFO lumps together, and we'll be smooth sailing.

Huzzah!

[Doomkid]

Whew, just spent the last few hours slaving over a hot XWE, and the next beta is just about ready.

So what we've got together in the upcoming beta is 36 maps. They've all been vastly improved from where they started, though there is still much detailing to be done, and they each have specific little nit-picks that need to be fixed up, for example the ability to jump out of the maps "border" and be stuck in an outdoor sky area. (This is present on a few maps)

Agaures has submitted a map in UDMF, which won't run in Zdaemon - For the time being, there's a simplified version of this map present, but it's still being tuned-up so it will be more like the original version. [MAP 35]

The majority of texture issues have been fixed up, I'm glad to say. A new version of map07 is still in the works, so those remaining errors will be fixed up. Map10, bobvorn's map, still uses a ton of mixed floor/wall textures and flats - If someone can help me fix this one up, that would be incredible. Or rather, if there's a texture pack out there that adds all "FLATS as Patches/ vice versa", that would be ideal - All of the maps the use floors on the walls would then run perfectly in all ports.

The elimination process for maps is going to be really tough, the main reason being none of these seem bad at all - At least not to me, though I'm not a DM pro, just a DM lover. ;) Naturally since the eliminations haven't happened yet, the map rotation hasn't changed. As others have said, there's a high chance of a "DMR 2" in the future, but we're not there yet. If your map doesn't make it this time around (or you just couldn't get your submission in mon time) keep it around and spiff it up for next season! Earlier, I said about ~25 maps will probably be present in the final product, but this is not set in stone - it all depends on the feedback I get.

Another idea I have is replacing the pistol with a machine gun that isn't quite as good as the chaingun. The thought behind this is to have a little protection in the maps where you have to scramble for a gun. Please let me know wether or not you think this is a good idea! There have been countless times where I've been fragged just because I had nothing to defend myself with, so I really like this plan, but it hasn't been implemented yet.

There are still silly gib sounds at the moment. TMD noted how ridiculous they are, but since then a lot of other members have stated that they love them, so I'm not sure how this tidbit will end up. Some audio files, and the 'machine gun pistol replacement' may just end up as their own separate optional WAD. It's a very small detail, either way.

I think everyone's going to be happy with the upcoming beta, it's definitely leaps and bounds ahead of the last one. :)

[one_Two]

Tbh I wouldn't make any weapon changes at all.

[Cruduxy]

^that
Let people load whatever weapon mod they want if they dont want vanilla dm :)

[Zeberpal]

There is just one thing to ctitisize:
I liked map22 and so I sladed and readme'd to find out the author of that map, but there is no list? I mean i'm interested to see which person made which map. Usually such wads contains a CREDITS lump or some more describable readme file.

[W1D3A55]

No sound or weapon changes. We all agreed on making vanilla (mainly) maps. Leave the sounds alone. Like others have said, if others want to play with modified doom things, let them, but don't do it for them. Also, like Zeberpal said, putting in a credits text file and/or put the authors names in the mapname. I've gotta say, some maps should probably get cut, as they sorta don't fit or have repeating themes and ideas. Not gonna say what maps yet.

[Doomkid]

Straightforward feedback - I like it. No new guns it is! (You're all right, there are plennnty of Gun mods out there already.)

That said, the new beta has arrived!
http://www.mediafire.com/?19xldsxie9kh5ud

There are now 36 maps present - Virtually none of them are at 100% completion, but they've come quite a way from the first beta!

durian is pulling out of the project, although hopefully he'll allow me to use his "entrymake/ big donut/ hellfighter" maps - It would be a shame to lose them, they're 3 of my favorites in this pack [it would be a shame to lose any solid maps!]

Most texture issues are resolved, although there are more to be dealt with. Map07, Map10, Map28, Map31 have some fairly serious issues, some of which have already been addressed, In any port but Zandronum you'll get a ton of tutti-frutti so that's a pretty big hump we still need to cross, but in the end these are fairly easy to fix problems.

Map13, Map16, Map18, Map21 have more minor texturing issues, one or two misplaced FLATS on a wall or missing textures, no biggie. And for some reason which I simply cant understand, Map28 gets no sound at all in Odamex. What the heck? It uses a MIDI file, so I'm stumped.

A few of these babies are in need of some details too, and that's coming from a "90's Doom" enthusiast. This will be saved for later, after elimintaions are complete. No need spending time detailing something that will end up in the "U" folder, after all.

Overall though, I'm really pleased with the progress. Most mappers know what they have to do at this point, or will after playing through this Beta. Enough of my rambling - Download it and check out the new stuff!

(Also, a credits txt has been included this time)

[Doomkid]

A few people at Doomworld have already noticed a few errors, such as wrong skies used, not enough player starts, and strange texture issues. The ASHWALLs are animating! Not sure how this has happened, there's no info for ASHWALL in the Animdefs lump.

GuardSoul: You'd be doing me a huge favor by re-sending me your map with all of the floor/ceiling flats separated from the wall patches. In all ports but Zanny, this results in tutti frutti on the floors/ceilings. I'm not sure which ones you've used, but this would help a lot. A few others have had the "floors/walls mixed up" problem, It really would help a ton if every port supported textures and flats being intermixed. x_x

Also if I've used to wrong sky on anyone's map, if you want to rename your map, or if you want to use different music, just let me know. (surprisingly enough, these things are hard to keep track of when you're in the editor instead of in-game)