If YouTube is not bringing the hammer down on the Zandronum staff for a Zandronum member uploading a video demonstrating malware on their site, then why is Zandronum staff bringing the hammer down on YouTube members (that happen to be on Zandronum, as well) posting comments on a YouTube video, with no logs or evidence to show that they did anything except post comments on a YouTube video when those comments were not made on Zandronum servers, and those comments do not effect Zandronum servers or software in any fashion whatsoever? If there is no evidence that they did anything except comment on YouTube, then they have squat on Ivan and Blue. If the staff can't produce concrete logs or a server recording showing Ivan and/or Blue soliciting links, then the ban isn't justified.Qent wrote: We are not policing Youtube. If we were, then we would be combating their comments on Youtube, not here. We are not responsible for what Zandronum members do on Youtube. If we were, then Youtube would be bringing the hammer down on the Zandronum staff for allowing malware to be posted on their site. We are (in my opinion) not even punishing Ivan, Bluewiz, and Ral for the sake of justice, but to protect ourselves from their ilk (and hopefully provide incentive to change), and demonstrate that such behavior will not be tolerated.
Neither Ivan nor Blue posted the video, merely commented on it with nothing to show that they linked to it anywhere else or did anything to effect Zandronum, its servers, or its software. Our hijacking Muslim, as you put it, was one of the other two banned for a considerably lengthier period.Qent wrote:Why not tighten the analogy, and consider a Muslim who has posted on Youtube that he plans to crash an airplane into a skyscraper? We really do have a bit more than the fact that he's Muslim.
To summarize my viewpoint/opinion:
1. Blue and Ivan were somewhat unpopular members with the staff, and they have been looking to get rid of them because of said unpopularity.
2. They posted comments on a hacking video of some kind that resulted in a controversy.
3. The staff jumped on this and alleged that they posted links in servers and IRC channels.
4. When the staff was asked to produce evidence and logs to support disruptive hacking activity on Zandronum territory and failed to do so, they fell back on posting YouTube comments as an excuse to get rid of two unpopular members that they may have been seeking to get rid of for some time.
As I said before, if YouTube is not coming after Zandronum for having a member post hacking information on YouTube territory, then Zandronum shouldn't be coming after YouTube/Zandronum members doing nothing except posting comments on YouTube territory. Qent says, "We are not responsible for what Zandronum members do on Youtube," then endorses that they are responsible for what members do on YouTube by punishing comments made solely on YouTube. He goes on to say, "We are (in my opinion)... punishing Ivan, Bluewiz, and Ral... to... demonstrate that such behavior will not be tolerated"--in other words, posting comments on questionable YouTube videos will not be tolerated. Which is policing activity on YouTube. I'm not saying that Blue and Ivan didn't post links in servers or IRC-- maybe they did, maybe they didn't--but without something to show that they did, you simply can't, within reason, ban them for YouTube comments that weren't made on Zandronum and don't effect Zandronum in any manner whatsoever, then try to justify it by mentioning past "trouble" that was never pursued until just now.