Brutal Strife - BETA 1

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

That's really too bad, because everything he said is true.

Like this?

bobbing animation is stupid and distracting

He doesn't like a feature that is not even related in the mod but to the engine itself and he is right? Oh yeah, he is. I totally agree with you, of course. Great observation!


Or wait, this one is even better

flamethrower is now just a bland, generic +RIPPER spamfest with the least effort put into "improving" what was a good fire death I've ever seen - hey guys let's have the acolytes spew "flames" that hardly even move up from their chest until they fall over and die!

Last time I checked, there is no RIPPER flag in the flames. How did the +RIPPER flag SLIPPED into the code without my consent? Wow! That's amazing. I think the mod is possessed by an evil spirit and is starting to codify itself!

[Ijon Tichy]

bobbing animation is stupid and distracting

He doesn't like a feature that is not even related in the mod but to the engine itself and he is right? Oh yeah, he is. I totally agree with you, of course. Great observation!

the bobbing of the punchdagger - I have movebob set to 0.01 so don't even try that
somehow I doubt you forgot about that and you're just trying to make me look bad (and failing)

Or wait, this one is even better

flamethrower is now just a bland, generic +RIPPER spamfest with the least effort put into "improving" what was a good fire death I've ever seen - hey guys let's have the acolytes spew "flames" that hardly even move up from their chest until they fall over and die!

Last time I checked, there is no RIPPER flag in the flames. How did the +RIPPER flag SLIPPED into the code without my consent? Wow! That's amazing. I think the mod is possessed by an evil spirit and is starting to codify itself!

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. --===(point)




         ( ) <-- your head
         /|\
          |
         / \

in this case, focusing on one word and ignoring the actual problems (boring, generic, ugly flame sprites, extremely half-assed effects)
I can see you're good at this whole "receiving criticism" thing

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

So, you are reporting a supposed problem that doesn't even exists, and I am the bad guy at receiving criticism?

[bazzoka]

lol your last post sounded bit too brutal, mod it self looks good so far

[Ijon Tichy]

okay so apparently what I saw as the acolytes emitting shitty flame effects was actually the flamethrower's effect floating in midair and lingering
protip: fire doesn't float, it rises - the source of the fire can fall down, but the actual fire kinda moves up

So, you are reporting a supposed problem that doesn't even exists, and I am the bad guy at receiving criticism?

a supposed problem that doesn't even exists

supposed problem

problem

uh, count 'em buddy, there's way more than one problem there
also the only thing you've fended off is a technicality about actor flags
the actual gameplay problems still remain completely unchallenged; the hilariously out-of-place resources are still hilariously out of place; I can still jump on an acolyte's head, slaughter him, and not have anyone give a shit; the mini missile launcher in still more powerful and WAY more accurate than it should be; the flamethrower is still a bland "flame" spitter that is also perfectly accurate (yo, the flamethrower was hard to control in strife, did you miss that) with stupid effects; phosphorous flames still throw you around and have a ridiculous reach; etc; etc; etc

also you kinda have a history of not recieving criticism if it doesn't pander to you every other sentence (to put it politely), but that's something else

edit:

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15:10 <@ijon> "IT'S AN ALPHA"
15:10 <@ijon> "THAT MEANS I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU"
15:10 <@ijon> "EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW"
15:10 <@ijon> "AN ALPHA IS MEANT TO FIND OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED"

[Dynamo]

So, you are reporting a supposed problem that doesn't even exists, and I am the bad guy at receiving criticism?

No, you are the "bad guy" for pretty much ignoring or dismissing most/all the points that have been made in the thread so far. People are not only allowed but also encouraged to post constructive criticism, something Ijon did extremely well, and you're not only supposed to accept the fact not everybody might like your masterpiece, but also to read it all and comment on every point he has made.

So I suggest you go back to Ijon's first post, read it all and comment it all. The fact this is an alpha is no excuse for your behaviour.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

And I think you have a problem to know what constructive criticism is. In my opinion, when somebody fills a review with excessive doses of irony and shit-talk, and even trying to point errors that are not even in the mod, I don't think there is anything constructive on it.

[Dynamo]

And I think you have a problem to know what constructive criticism is. In my opinion, when somebody fills a review with excessive doses of irony and shit-talk, and even trying to point errors that are not even in the mod, I don't think there is anything constructive on it.

Huh, personally I don't care if you got offended over some post on the internet because it contains such an ugly, disgusting and evil thing called irony, doesn't make his points any less valid than they are, and doesn't justify the fact you ignored them.

[Ijon Tichy]

And I think you have a problem to know what constructive criticism is. In my opinion, when somebody fills a review with excessive doses of irony and shit-talk, and even trying to point errors that are not even in the mod, I don't think there is anything constructive on it.

Okay, so let's say I'm the bad guy here. I'm a horrible person and everything I say is automatically invalid, and you actually have a legitimate reason to ignore all my points ("bawww he offended me" isn't a legitimate reason).

What about Dusk?
Or Eric?
Or Twinkieman?
Or ChronoSeth?

Just address the damn criticisms and release an alpha2. Haven't you been doing this for the past two years? You'd think one would know how to take caustic critics by this point.

Also, what shit talk? Seems like you don't know what shit talk actually is. That would be me saying something like "you're a failure for making a shit mod like this, and every single mod I've ever made - even the joke ones - are better." Nowhere did I say anything like that - the closest I came was "this isn't a good mod," immediately succeeding a page's worth of reasons why. Unless you're referring to me being blunt about my points.

Also, the "errors" I pointed out that you so quickly jumped to the gun about were either never said to be errors, but just annoying (the punch dagger bobbing, especially considering nothing else does that); or are completely inconsequental to my points (the +RIPPER ordeal).

Also, you did catch the "fire doesn't float, it rises" thing, right?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... sticCritic

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Ok, I am sorry. I must admit that really get pissed off at ironic reviews. Gonna read the posts and answer them.

so let's see - the "improved stealth" allows me to kill an acolyte, have him very obviously die, and not have anyone give a shit
meanwhile I swing my dagger out of boredom and suddenly I'm getting attacked by my own team mates, because that is totally a justified and expected response to me being harmlessly stupid

Actually that's how the original Stealth worked in Strife. You could butcher an acolyte with your dagger and even if other acolyte were facing you 3 meters away, he wouldn't react, so I don't get your point here.
And yes, getting attacked by your teammates is something that can be justified. The Order has been for a long time trying to stop the Front and there might be spies somewhere, and I am pretty sure that the rebels would get really mad at you if you started to swing a blade in an offensive stance near their leader.

the added sounds and graphics do not fit strife in the slightest, and take away from the game - the fluid and sky replacements were completely unnecessary, for one, and the duke3D explosions sounds you can hear from miles away are just plain stupid

I already removed the sky and water replacements, but now about the explosions, that's a matter of personal taste.

the electric crossbow easily gets you to the programmer alone, because it stunlocks fucking everything - it's the equivalent of the pistol, not a weapon you're meant to use for everything forever!
also the electricity effects are comical and ugly at best

I wanted it to be a weapon that could still be usable in the middle to end of the game. I am working on to fix it.

you're inconsistent with your added rules - why can a heavy explosive barrel be pushed around while an empty wooden one is apparently rooted to the ground so deeply that your most valiant efforts prove fruitless?

Side effects of alpha state. I have worked on the more important explosive stuff first, and left other objects to be taken care later.

accuracy upgrades are useless, because everything is extremely accurate from the beginning

I don't know if I am going to keep the accuracy upgrades, and just make the Targeter improve the player's accuracy until it lasts.

the mini missile launcher can take out a turret, with 125 health, in one shot - something the actual mini missile launcher could never do with a maximum damage of 104

Alpha state unbalance. I already reduced the damage to never destroy a turret with a single shot.

also the same old tired gib effects which are quickly becoming the new nashgore for the acolytes

Alpha state placeholders. In my current build, I already added new gibs based on the original Strife gibs.

the grenade launchers are just plain silly now, clashing with strife's art style pretty well and making absolutely no sense - spherical grenades, shell casings. I what.

Alpha concept that I will might get rid. I just find the Strife's grenade launcher very weird from a military point of view, even for a fantasy game.

also last I checked fire doesn't push you, and the range the fire can hurt you at is just plain silly - if real life had similar-acting fires, everyone at a campfire would burst into flames within seconds

Alpha state unbalance. Working on it.

flamethrower is now just a bland, generic +RIPPER spamfest with the least effort put into "improving" what was a good fire death I've ever seen - hey guys let's have the acolytes spew "flames" that hardly even move up from their chest until they fall over and die!

I made the flamethrower don't spawn the fire actors that keeps damaging over time if it directly hits an enemy.

do the torches really need to emit sound? it doesn't add anything to gameplay, and it's just annoying

Added to improve ambient and add more to the "realism" thing, but yes, I really need to reduce it's volume in 50%.

I still got the normal crossbows from rowan - you DO use ConversationID, right?
funnily enough that's the only way for me to use poison bolts because the "brutal" crossbow can't do that anymore!

Yes, I do. But for some reason, I am receiving the original crossbow, but when switch back to dagger, and back to crossbow, it has the correct one.

[*]out-of-place resources from Doom and Hexen (wtf is hexen music doing in strife??)
[*]exactly the same gore and effects as in brutal doom, seen these already...
[*]recolored doom 2 sky..
[*]electric crossbow kills painfully in 1-2 hits, where's the skill involved?
[*]no distinction between heavy and phosphorus grenade launchers... they also look like necrodome weapons with no editing involved
[*]what's doom nukage and water doing in strife?

These ones are already removed from the Alpha 2.

[Dynamo]

Thank you. Business continues as usual now.

[Ijon Tichy]

Actually that's how the original Stealth worked in Strife. You could butcher an acolyte with your dagger and even if other acolyte were facing you 3 meters away, he wouldn't react, so I don't get your point here.
And yes, getting attacked by your teammates is something that can be justified. The Order has been for a long time trying to stop the Front and there might be spies somewhere, and I am pretty sure that the rebels would get really mad at you if you started to swing a blade in an offensive stance near their leader.

checked the punch dagger behaviour - if you use the punchdagger in front of an acolyte in the same sector as you, they'll attack you (that's what +SEESDAGGERS does)
if anything, get rid of the sector condition and add a range condition

also the rebels don't go apeshit on punchdagget in vanilla strife (that would require +SEESDAGGERS) - also who says it was taunting macil and not just tapping the fire button while running out of the front base (which is what I do)

I already removed the sky and water replacements, but now about the explosions, that's a matter of personal taste.

fair enough, but at least make them not be heard from the other side of the continent

I wanted it to be a weapon that could still be usable in the middle to end of the game. I am working on to fix it.

it was never meant to be that though, and stunlocking is just way too overpowered
make it do double damage to cybernetic enemies or something, because that's what I thought it would do on first impression anyway

you have one other problem, too - you hardly ever find electric crossbow bolts after mid-game, so either compensate for that (have acolytes drop a bolt or two occasionally?) or tell the player "lol just buy them they cost 5 gold stop being cheap u fgt"

I don't know if I am going to keep the accuracy upgrades, and just make the Targeter improve the player's accuracy until it lasts.

well I can understand if you're trying to avoid the headache of figuring out how and when your accuracy gets upgraded (you can't even intercept it in a few places), but the accuracy upgrades were there to make your weapons more and more effective as the game went on

Alpha concept that I will might get rid. I just find the Strife's grenade launcher very weird from a military point of view, even for a fantasy game.

I'd say ditch it, unless you want to put in a bunch of effort strififying the sprites and getting grenade sprites that actually make sense being in a shell casing
also make the phosphorus grenades alt-fire or something; it makes no sense but it plays better

also last I checked fire doesn't push you, and the range the fire can hurt you at is just plain silly - if real life had similar-acting fires, everyone at a campfire would burst into flames within seconds

Alpha state unbalance. Working on it.

go back to vanilla behaviour - have fire spread everywhere and linger on the ground (NOT in mid-air), but reduce the radius and damage of the flames because holy fucking christ one phosphorus grenade can KO korax with ease - then you don't need the hugeass explosions and you can more easily tell where you get A_CrispyPlayer'd
also +NODAMAGETHRUST

I made the flamethrower don't spawn the fire actors that keeps damaging over time if it directly hits an enemy.

well put the projectile gravity and optionally the uncontrollability back in - those were interesting features, naturally limited range, balanced the flamethrower out, and also was realistic

Yes, I do. But for some reason, I am receiving the original crossbow, but when switch back to dagger, and back to crossbow, it has the correct one.

samsara does not have this issue, and it uses ConversationID 194

also slow down the electricity effect - arcs don't flicker that quickly

[Aqua Kitty]

There's no need to argue over issues with this mod, it's only an Alpha. The WAD would be better with less bugs and ripped assets, and it needs to be rebalanced (because Phosphor Grenades don't need to be able to take out big enemies easily), but as an alpha it's a good mod.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

I have listened to everyone's criticism and alpha 2 is now up.

Changes:
- Fixed some broken stuff from the first alpha.
- Reduced the volume of new sounds by 50%.
- Removed the new sky, liquid textures and grenade launcher sprites.
- Removed all sister weapons, and now weapons that uses two ammo types can use use the alt fire button to use the alternate ammo type.
- Removed Brutal Doom's placeholder gibs and added new gibs based on Strife's gore sprites, plus adding unique gibs for every enemy.
- Fixed weapon unbalances.
- The Targeter now actually works and makes weapons more accurate while it lasts.
- Almost everything can be destroyed.

[StrikerMan780]

Wow, everyone's just a fucking ray of sunshine aren't they? (Just my take on the rather pointless back & forth earlier in the thread).

Either way, interested to see how this turns out in the end. It's obvious some things still need to be worked on, but I'm certainly not going trash it, as I know it's still an alpha.

[President People]

Found two bugs…

When I killed the prisoner holding the ring during the first quest, the dude broke in half (wat) and didn't give me anything. Needless to say, this breaks the game.

If I punch the flaming barrel down by the old man, he goes into his pain state and assumes a defensive position. Going near him before he lowers his [?tazer] will make him attack. Don't mess with this guy's barrel!

[Aqua Kitty]

MAEK BR00TAL ZELDA NEXT!!1

[DownOnTheUpside]

Hey listen, Don't listen to those assholes Sergeant. This looks very promising along with your brutal Hexen. Anything in the alpha stages isn't nearly what it will look like in the final product. And Ijon, STFU and go back to coding samsara. Sergeant has been coding way longer than you and if you have nothing good to say about his wads, I suggest saying nothing at all. If your going to leave constructive critism then leave out the negativity. There are hardly any Strife wads out there, so I appreciate any wads that contribute to Strife. That aside, keep up the good work Sergeant. I look forward to what this wad brings to the table.

[Cruduxy]

Hey listen, Don't listen to those assholes Sergeant. This looks very promising along with your brutal Hexen. Anything in the alpha stages isn't nearly what it will look like in the final product. And Ijon, STFU and go back to coding samsara. Sergeant has been coding way longer than you and if you have nothing good to say about his wads, I suggest saying nothing at all. If your going to leave constructive critism then leave out the negativity. There are hardly any Strife wads out there, so I appreciate any wads that contribute to Strife. That aside, keep up the good work Sergeant. I look forward to what this wad brings to the table.

I myself find the negative ones to be the most useful ones because good ones will rarely tell you about the broken things..
A review like "OMFG best ever download" will never be worth a 1000 lines of bug reports or suggestions to improve something not broken but still not optimal

[Synert]

Wow, everyone's just a fucking ray of sunshine aren't they?

To be fair this does pretty much seem like a reskinned Brutal Doom for Strife made to capitalise on its popularity, plus it does have quite a few problems.

Either way, interested to see how this turns out in the end. It's obvious some things still need to be worked on, but I'm certainly not going trash it, as I know it's still an alpha.

May as well still give him feedback, that's the point of constructive criticism

---

Hey listen, Don't listen to those assholes Sergeant.

These 'assholes' have been giving constructive criticism and pointing out actual problems, but hey if you want the mod to be horribly broken then fair enough

Anything in the alpha stages isn't nearly what it will look like in the final product.

"It's alpha, that means you can't say anything bad about it!"

And Ijon, STFU and go back to coding samsara. Sergeant has been coding way longer than you and if you have nothing good to say about his wads, I suggest saying nothing at all.

Everything he's saying is true, though. And what does coding experience have to do with anything? (fyi, he's been coding for longer than sarge and is better)