Samsara - No longer under active development.

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#201

Post by Aqua Kitty » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:13 am

I was also going to ask about one of Rise of the Triad's characters, and Master Chief from Halo.

For Rott, extra pistol should be slot 1, mp-40 slot 2, flamewall for slot 3, bazooka in slot 4, heatseeker in slot 5, firebomb for 6, Excalibat for slot 7, berserk could be a random powerup like ROTT, some weapons may have to be nerfed/buffed but otherwise ROTT can go unchanged..

As for Master Chief, magnum could be his starter, Energy Sword/Plasma Pistol could be slot 1, SMG/Dual SMGs in slot 2, Shotgun in slot 3, Assault Rifle in slot 4, Rocket Launcher in slot 5, Plasma Rifle in slot 6, and Sniper rifle for Slot 7. Take the stupid recharger out of his armor and give him finite health and armor like everyone else, make the energy sword, plasma pistol/rifle, and laser use slot 4 ammo instead of not being able to reload. His alt fire should be a melee attack as in Halo and there should be a special key to throw grenades, since I find the "Boxer" control the best way to play Halo, but that's just me.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#202

Post by Catastrophe » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:19 am

lmao u want master chief in this mod. well be kool 1337 uber sn1p3r elites

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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#203

Post by The Toxic Avenger » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:21 am

Llewellyn wrote: Other changed that I can remember that still need to be made is the Chexguy's SSG slot replacement.
What

I like that SSG

Also, for those wishlisting, keep in mind that class has to have specific weaknesses, strengths, and a defined role.

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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#204

Post by Llewellyn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:22 am

The Toxic Avenger wrote:
Llewellyn wrote: Other changed that I can remember that still need to be made is the Chexguy's SSG slot replacement.
What
I like that SSG
I think he wants a replacement sprite... not a replacement altogether (although the gun is defiantly op in linear-like levels.)

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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#205

Post by TerminusEst13 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:41 pm

Llewellyn wrote:
The Toxic Avenger wrote:
Llewellyn wrote: Other changed that I can remember that still need to be made is the Chexguy's SSG slot replacement.
What
I like that SSG
I think he wants a replacement sprite... not a replacement altogether (although the gun is defiantly op in linear-like levels.)
Yeah. The problem is that it doesn't look like a Chex Quest weapon.
The SLZ is kind of unique (and frustrating) in that it's the only genuinely original weapon--the Explosive Shotgun is from Duke Nukem 64, the Spear of Destiny from Wolfenstein RPG, the Wave Motion Cannon from Oni, but the Super Large Zorcher has nothing to go off in design or function. The only thing I have in mind is "don't copy the SSG", which is probably what it would have been, had it made it in to Chex Quest 3 anyway.
I e-mailed Jacobi and he sent me some concept art of old planned Chex Quest guns, so I'll probably be using some of those for inspiration.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#206

Post by The Toxic Avenger » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:07 pm

I just wish the SLZ didn't push enemies so much. It's frustrating as hell to be fighting a cacodemon only to have it shove it across the map where you can't hit it.

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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#207

Post by MarkuzESP » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:03 am

Chexter's "SSG" is a very weird gun. I prefer using the normal Large Zorcher in coop games rather than the Super one because the push away drives me crazy, looks like rather than having the hellspawn chasing me, it's me the one who chases the hellspawn, specially when fighting against Cacodemons, Pain Elementals and Lost Souls.

Anyway, in deatmatch / CTF it's dangerous and in small corridors it's simply the best weapon to shoot when playing Chexter... 1 shot most times is 1 kill.

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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#208

Post by Lord_of_D: » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:48 am

MarkuzESP wrote: Chexter's "SSG" is a very weird gun. I prefer using the normal Large Zorcher in coop games rather than the Super one because the push away drives me crazy, looks like rather than having the hellspawn chasing me, it's me the one who chases the hellspawn, specially when fighting against Cacodemons, Pain Elementals and Lost Souls.

Anyway, in deatmatch / CTF it's dangerous and in small corridors it's simply the best weapon to shoot when playing Chexter... 1 shot most times is 1 kill.
something simmilar happens with parias, the hammah is 1-hit kill, and like 2-4 shots of the ice wand(or however is called, i forgot D: ) are enough for take anybody.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#209

Post by TerminusEst13 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:57 am

Let's have a little bit of an open discussion regarding the Super Large Zorcher, then.

I've mentioned before that the last thing I want is for it to turn into an SSG clone--a short-range dominant beast that utterly replaces the Shotgun/Large Zorcher in all respects. The function I've been leaning towards is a sort of long-range railgun to help soften up targets/pick off weaker targets at long distance before taking the other weapons at closer range. The huge pushback is a defensive benefit, to help Chex grab aggro from heavier targets and/or push them into the ways of walls/trees/etc, so that their attacks hit nothing and/or get aimed at him.
Much to my chagrin, however, it's been turning into the exact opposite. Not only is it becoming the "main" weapon for his players, but the pushback is either getting ignored or in the way of most people's playstyles. Add onto that, it's becoming used quite a lot at mid and short range, rather than long range.
And, of course, I'm sure all of you are familiar with it in PvP--it's a pain in the ass to go against. Unpredictable, difficult to dodge, and has an annoying tendency of hitting you at the angle you swore you were safe at.

To sum up, it's going to need a different secondary effect. The primary method attack is going to stay the same--four bouncing bolts with pinpoint accuracy that sail at long range, super-long reload. The pushback, however, is dangerously close to going on the chopping block.
One person, Vaecrius, suggested an interesting idea--a lingering damage effect on impact that temporarily stuns enemies, a la a laser version of the Mighty Boot. Alternatively, a small set of beams that protrude in eight directions upon impact that deal a slight bit of additional damage to the crowd around it, a la HacX 2.0's Taser. Both of these ideas, however, have a chance to make an annoying PvP weapon even more annoying. Alternatively, there are more several people who consider it his least useful weapon in PvE--getting rid of the secondary effect entirely and just leaving the massive railgun-esque function guarantees that the already-questionable weapon becomes even more questionable.

What are your thoughts, lads?
Last edited by TerminusEst13 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#210

Post by Catastrophe » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:04 am

Stuns? NO!

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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#211

Post by Aqua Kitty » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:02 am

The Toxic Avenger wrote:
Llewellyn wrote: Other changed that I can remember that still need to be made is the Chexguy's SSG slot replacement.
What

I like that SSG

Also, for those wishlisting, keep in mind that class has to have specific weaknesses, strengths, and a defined role.
Let's see...

Lo Wang from Shadow Warrior could have a "Stealth" role (cuz he's a ninja hur hur). He could be better at taking enemies out whilst unseen but take even more damage than Duke to emphasize stealth.

Previously I had the idea for adding a Brutal Legend character; they could be "Support" - Ability to heal, buff, and debuff by playing da guitar. I'm thinking Eddie cause that band that plays Doom's music could use a roadie (Also, "Demon, I will mess you up if you do that again!"; To Cyberdemon: "I'm gonna make an ashtray out of your hoof!"). He could use a mix of solos from the three playable characters to encompass his Support role (Kinda like Parias). The main disadvantage to Guitar would be that Solos would take an amount of time to execute and require a key press sequence, but effects can be powerful depending on how well they're done.

Overall, Eddie's main advantage would be infinite "ammo" (although his guitar overheats). However, he'd have an inability to use armor and lower damage capacity, but roadies are supposed to stay behind the scenes and fix things, which would be his place in Samsara.

His starter would be Axe for main and Guitar for alt attack, to allow combos. The solos would have their ingame icons in the slots, as well as reasonable cooldowns.

STARTER - Battle Cry - Increases attack power of all allies that hear it.

Slot I - Anvil of Burden - Slows down all enemies that hear it, chaining an anvil to their leg.

Slot II - Facemelter - Area damage coming from Eddie. Bonus points if you add melting face animations for lesser monsters.

Slot III - Black Tear Infusion - Creates a healing zone around Eddie, healing all allies in it.

Slot IV - Curse - Knocks back nearby enemies and does damage to them over time

Slot V - Agony Boil - Leaves a festering landmine in front of Eddie; it'll explode when enemies go near it.

Slot VI - Rock Block - Prevents all enemies from attacking for a short time.

Slot VII - Light of Dawn - Removes all negative effects from allies and positive effects from enemies for a time.

Caleb from Blood might as well be the equivalent to TF2's Pyro "Ambush" role - Some weapons would kill instantly, have "burning" damage like Hexen's Poison damage, etc. but Caleb would take damage even worse than LoWang.

Master Chief could have the same health system as Halo 2 and be a "Striker" - Move in, attack, get out when shields get too low and let them charge. I think his Slot 7 should be the laser instead of sniper since Chief's not a Marksman like BJ.

RottMan should be a "Jumper" - Moves a little slower then even Duke but jumps a little higher than other characters (and can Rocket Jump with minimal damage to self thus allowing him to jump way higher).
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#212

Post by TerminusEst13 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:12 am

All right. Let's take this from the top.

Lo Wang. Lo Wang did very little that was actually stealthy. Sure, he was a ninja, but the gameplay of Shadow Warrior was much more similar to the typical run-and-gun--trying to give him a Stealth gameplay is pretty much against the entire point of Shadow Warrior's gameplay. Not to mention, one player trying to be stealthy in co-op creates a whole bag of issues. If a character was going to have a Stealth role, it'd probably be best if there were concessions for it in his original game. Like Strife. Half of Strife was about stealth, I hear.

Eddie. Uh. Samsara is all about FPSes. Brutal Legend was fun, but an RTS-esque character really doesn't have any place here. Much less a character whose entire purpose is to buff people--which would be useless in LMS/Terminator/Deathmatch/singleplayer. And considering everyone would have to stay still around him while he finishes his solo, of extremely questionable use in Capture the Flag or Team Deathmatch or whatever. Not to mention most of them would make use of functions that Zandronum doesn't have (I'm seeing an extreme reliance on A_RadiusGive) and/or custom graphics.

Caleb. Caleb does very little unique from a gameplay perspective that the other heroes don't have. The Security Officer has his dual-wielding and alt-fires. Duke has his reliance on explosives. His weapons are nifty from a design standpoint but function very similarly to existing weapons--off the top of my head, the most unique thing he does have is lingering damage effects on enemies. Problem being that A: it doesn't work in Zandronum yet, and B: even once it does will probably be poison damage.

Taradino as a Jumper. Vanilla levelsets don't have jump, or any mobility at all besides horizontal, and a lot of map designs in more competitive maps are balanced around the usually-understood concept that the only access people can get to a flag/skull/portion of a base/whatever is via running. Making a character based around any sort of extraneous mobility is guaranteeing problems. This is why Duke's jetpack and the SO's gravity are optional and not an integral part of their character.

I appreciate the ideas and the input, but there's not really a lot that I can use.
Sorry.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#213

Post by XutaWoo » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:27 am

Catastrophe wrote: Stuns? NO!
Monster stuns. Locking players in a pain state just delays their screams of pain, and not much else.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#214

Post by Ivan » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:37 am

TerminusEst13 wrote: Lo Wang. Lo Wang did very little that was actually stealthy. Sure, he was a ninja, but the gameplay of Shadow Warrior was much more similar to the typical run-and-gun--trying to give him a Stealth gameplay is pretty much against the entire point of Shadow Warrior's gameplay. Not to mention, one player trying to be stealthy in co-op creates a whole bag of issues. If a character was going to have a Stealth role, it'd probably be best if there were concessions for it in his original game. Like Strife. Half of Strife was about stealth, I hear.
Lo Wang had interesting weapons as well. Sure stealth may not be the main factor in that game but he had some good usage on his items such as smokebomb/stealth. He also has one of the stronger melee weapons. He also introduced weapons with multiple firing modes. (Strife also probably did but they were on different weapons) But I guess the similarity with Duke would put you off...
TerminusEst13 wrote: Caleb. Caleb does very little unique from a gameplay perspective that the other heroes don't have. The Security Officer has his dual-wielding and alt-fires. Duke has his reliance on explosives. His weapons are nifty from a design standpoint but function very similarly to existing weapons--off the top of my head, the most unique thing he does have is lingering damage effects on enemies. Problem being that A: it doesn't work in Zandronum yet, and B: even once it does will probably be poison damage.
Caleb has the most original weapon set out of all the Build games in my opinion. You start with a pitchfork and get flareguns, sawn-off shotguns, napalm launchers, a telsa cannon and dark magic! Almost no FPS even had those... The character is also cool to begin with. He's a gunslinger, his gameplay is about running up close to people and juking them easily. A Doomguy with better speed/less damage but faster weapons. He also lobs dynamites... About your problems, the way Zblood does it is it uses a very small range A_Explode on an A_Fire call, the only downside is that you don't see more than 1 flare on the enemy. Even then, you probably can code your own to make the flames be visible around a monster, I guess.
TerminusEst13 wrote: Taradino as a Jumper. Vanilla levelsets don't have jump, or any mobility at all besides horizontal, and a lot of map designs in more competitive maps are balanced around the usually-understood concept that the only access people can get to a flag/skull/portion of a base/whatever is via running. Making a character based around any sort of extraneous mobility is guaranteeing problems. This is why Duke's jetpack and the SO's gravity are optional and not an integral part of their character.
This is also quite a nice idea actually, in RoTT there was LEGIT rocket jumping and it was introduced there first, before any other FPS game. He can be the class that just rocket jumps epicly. And also, in competitive environment, rocket jumps are considered as epic moves that net you flags. I don't know how you got your information about "flags only accessible by running" but it's quite wrong. This being said, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that should be a core part of the character, it can be just something that he does when he gets an armor, in which in RoTT you could only do so by an Asbestos Armor anyway.

To be honest, there's always room for creativity in all 3 of the ideas here, you can really add new things to any of those to make them more balanced and diverse. But anyway, I think you said somewhere that you don't consider adding anymore classes so this has all been kinda pointless, eh.
Last edited by Ivan on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#215

Post by TerminusEst13 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:14 pm

But anyway, I think you said somewhere that you don't consider adding anymore classes so this has all been kinda pointless, eh.
Nah, it's never pointless. I'm always up for discussion and ideas with folks. I'm hardly a know-everything, heh.
I just want to get everyone at a good DM/CTF balance first before considering adding more. This may take a while or it may take only one build.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#216

Post by Aqua Kitty » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:40 am

Maybe all the new characters could be an add-on, so as to not break regular play?

Jumper would be kinda useless because Security Officer can do wicked Grenade/Rocket jumps on his own.
Last edited by Aqua Kitty on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#217

Post by Gardevoir » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:33 pm

Well then, first of all get a stable version with all the current classes being balanced. Then we can start thinking about new classes. And so, the add-on idea seems to be a good option. After you get your stuff done, we might start adding new characters in form of add-ons. I suppose that would be the best thing to do right now :p
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RE: Samsara - v0.24b - Somewhere in the heavens...

#218

Post by XutaWoo » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:19 am

I don't see the point of making future classes add-on without making them all add-on for the purest form of server customization, since they could just go into the main file.

It's not like this is a final version, y'know. He's still developing Samsara Classic.
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RE: Samsara - v0.25 - I think the changelog gets longer with each release.

#219

Post by TerminusEst13 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:56 am

And 0.25 is released. tl;dr: Corvus doesn't suck now, Parias is nerfed, people with auto-aim on don't rape everything anymore, new Super Large Zorcher design (with assistance from Chex Quest artist Charles Jacobi!), and a whole host of other shit. Slowly working my way towards PvP balance, thanks to an incredible wealth of input, criticism, and observations--I think now for the most part the characters are pretty solid, and the only real question mark I think is left rests firmly on the Security Officer.
I've had a few people asking me for my to-do list, and while I'm baffled why in the world anyone would be remotely interested, it's not like it's a private matter or anything so here's a small sample of it.
Strife support is coming along relatively well, though I'm sure I'll be hitting snags. I'm estimating it'll be ready around 0.27 or so, for those interested in it.

As always, thank you all for your interest and input. Please enjoy.
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RE: Samsara - v0.25 - I think the changelog gets longer with each release.

#220

Post by Cerebus » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:26 am

I do not know what the reason is, but whenever I play as Security Officer, Zandronum crashes, doesn't happen on any other character. I have the latest stable version of Zandronum. and I am using the latest version of your add on.
On the charge of playing the Sega Saturn port of Doom, I find myself guilty as charged LOL

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