Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon) tesz

[Doomenator]

I understand mifu but here the problem is a bit more complicated you know, when I look at the wad list of the current server complex-doom.v26a2.pk3 and lca-v1.5.8.pk3 are no more used, they have been replaced by some "-opt" which is supposed to "optimize" the gameplay I have nothing against that but here again it will confuse people in the end.

It seems to me "-opt" mean to optional. Sorry but I think that you confused yourself.

[hexhex]

Guys the necronomicon book can summon monster like cerebral cardinal, baby sentient?

The leg music i solve it. I was told to type lca_legmusic 1.

[tarrasqueSorcerer]

Necro doesn't summon monsters, it curses/converts them. I think it works on everything except bosses and legs, so you can have a friendly baby sentient, but not cer card.

[Legendary]

Just ban all these damn addons and maybe complex doom will maybe be updated a day, they seriously killed the gameplay and somehow people are still playing that...
I admit that I inspired tdawg for haf with my bullshit addon for complex doom that I quickly deleted years ago but now this is no thing but a cancer, even a mod taking all the monsters from Realm667 would look more serious than that joke.
And now what do we have here, people talking here about stuff which happen only with other addons but LCA.

I don't know if you ever played CD alone or CD+LCA and then checked the actual servers mifu but I'm very sure that anyone as an admin would understand how far it has gone and do something about it.
This why we won't see anymore big mod project on Zandronum because other lazy modders will start their addons and kill the efforts of the main project, and don't speak about "Huh, it keeps the mod popular" because I'm sure that they now how to do it themself. This I understood that the "complex doom community" doesn't seem to care at all, they could just support the main project by ignoring the servers with addons, but because of you know the old Skulltag rule, server with people brings more people, this is not going to happen.

The problem here is "ban all the addons" Dont get me wrong, if it has to come to that because no one wants to do shit about maybe making the file list smaller so it can be easily hosted then TSPG may go ahead and do it but that is not the right way to do this. The right way about this would be to stop your bickering (goes for all modders for complex doom), put your egos back into your pants and maybe discuss and work together to make this better then it is currently. If the file list can be smaller or maybe make half of the shit optional if possible people are going to have an easy time to host this.

Just get this straight, we are not going to ban a wad for being straight up cancer because it ruined the main mod. Thats not how it works around at TSPG boi, but I will say this before Marcaek does, we will ban all of the addons, if it is causing our players on our server grief on hosting the damn thing.

Im glad Legendary agrees with me and Marcaek though, and that alone is the first step into the right direction. Sooo, what are we going to do about this large list of damn mods in order to host complex doom?

Seems like we're going to have to reach out to the creators of the mods so that we can see if they wouldn't mind combining some into the same pk3. That would be the best option we have at making the wad list shorter.

It's still a product.

The reason for the large amount of the files is because Complex and LCA have become popular with modders, and perhaps part of that problem is the fact that Complex cannot be updated until it's owner returns or re-assigns ownership.

Modding a mod that's modding a mod that's modding a game. Pretty crazy. But, that's where we are. Perhaps there should be a Modding Law that disallows this.

For example, I myself would add to my mod's LICENSE that you are prohibited from loading any add-ons to my mod unless those add-ons have been approved by this mod's owner. Because, I wouldn't want someone to ruin my production with their adjustments (add-on mod), you see. Speaking of LICENSE, I would also prohibit anyone from playing my mod with the music disabled.

Anyways...

Modders are making addons for Complex/LCA, and most of these addons have become popular as well. Thus the list of wads grows. Complex/LCA seems to be popular because it's mostly fun, and uses a lot of high quality assets.

I may be one of those people who complained about the command limit. I mentioned it to Combinebobnt back in July, then poked fun about it by naming my server "2016 limited cmdline" (because thats what I actually did (used a shorter sv_hostname) to get my .host command to fit), then asked (in Sept.) what the reason is for the character limit. See paste: http://pastebin.com/1L8uTXkG

In fact, this commandline limit issue was the ONE thing that actually pushed me over the hill to start using .load with the bot. For years I ignored learning the .load command with BestBot/Painkiller until I reached this commandline limit issue and then decided to bother myself testing ".load". In the end, I learned that saving my commands into the BestEver/TSPG website (then using .load #) allows me to exceed the limit.

Some of these add-ons should be merged, and I've mentioned this in the past but some people disagreed. See paste: http://pastebin.com/Kr4MMyk9

I agree that it can be confusing to know what wads to put in order. There's no documentation because there's no organization. I might do something to help with that problem. But, I disagree that it would be difficult to track down which wad is the problem if you're having issues. The console displays the wad hashcodes to show any differences between your copies and the server's copies. Also, the process of elimination (removing one wad at a time) in troubleshooting should quickly reveal which wad is the problem.


Killer2, don't let blood's angered passion for the project (along with his English) confuse you. As a result, I think there's a misunderstanding on your part, and therefore I think what you wrote is the actually opposite of what you meant.


P.S. Fused, we've heard the complaints and we responded by compressing all the music. And "large" is relative. I don't think we have good enough reason to complain about the music filesize. Especially when it's only 20mb. The entire project is 100mb. You may not know, but LCA has a lot of new sounds and graphics and 90% of them are high quality.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I feel like the music should stay in the pk3 as it is compressed already. Plus removing it and putting it in a separate file would cause "D_LEGM20 not found" type errors every single time a Leg monster spawns which could possibly get annoying. Generally speaking now, the opt versions of lca are more than just optimizations now. I've seen so much that changes lca from how it usually is such as weapons, powerups, and other stuff of that nature. So now it's pretty much another addon for complex and lca.

[Galactus]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I feel like the music should stay in the pk3 as it is compressed already. Plus removing it and putting it in a separate file would cause "D_LEGM20 not found" type errors every single time a Leg monster spawns which could possibly get annoying. Generally speaking now, the opt versions of lca are more than just optimizations now. I've seen so much that changes lca from how it usually is such as weapons, powerups, and other stuff of that nature. So now it's pretty much another addon for complex and lca.

Not if you load the music wad after the regular wad, right?

[arkore]

Plus removing it and putting it in a separate file would cause "D_LEGM20 not found" type errors every single time a Leg monster spawns which could possibly get annoying.

Nah. The music script can just be updated (if it's not already) to be able to turn that off, by a server setting like lca_legmusic for example.

[Sepia-Paper]

To mod or not to mod a Mod of a Mod...To tell the truth, the day you stopped updating your own Mod, you lose to others who mod your Mod and make it better then yours and you can't complain about people liking it either, its their choice.

If you just update your own without caring about all those (Optional) addons then maybe you might get the public to back you up again...

[Daedalus]

To tell the truth, the day you stopped updating your own Mod, you lose to others who mod your Mod and make it better then yours and you can't complain about people liking it either, its their choice.

Are you directing that towards me? I clearly stated in my last post exactly what you just said and that I was glad it was around after my departure. There were no complaints.

Saying it's better is questionable regardless of how many players it has, (being a bit of a hypocrite here, yes, as I have been like this back in its early version days) it's a matter of opinion. Like you just said and what I also said in my post, had I not stopped updating I wouldn't have "lost" (haven't really lost anything anyway as people are still loading the original, unmodified mod with added content and that's fine) it's player base.

Perhaps you should lose those fanboy goggles?

[Sepia-Paper]

To tell the truth, the day you stopped updating your own Mod, you lose to others who mod your Mod and make it better then yours and you can't complain about people liking it either, its their choice.

Are you directing that towards me? I clearly stated in my last post exactly what you just said and that I was glad it was around after my departure. There were no complaints.

Saying it's better is questionable regardless of how many players it has, (being a bit of a hypocrite here, yes, as I have been like this back in its early version days) it's a matter of opinion. Like you just said and what I also said in my post, had I not stopped updating I wouldn't have "lost" (haven't really lost anything anyway as people are still loading the original, unmodified mod with added content and that's fine) it's player base.

Perhaps you should lose those fanboy goggles?

I'm not a Fanboy but a Doom Player that likes all the variety of stuff the Community gives out, I just don't want the ones who make things and the ones who play them to fight each other and stop the entire process of making things work.

People will love and Play with your stuff no matter what others do to it cause this is the internet, I'm an Artist and if someone steals my work and uses to gain money or publicity and I can't do anything about it, that doesn't mean I should stop being an Artist and stop drawing once and for all...The best I can do is let the Public know that I'm the original Owner and they should expect the original stuff from me, but if I stop, I'm just letting those who abuse my work win...

[Legendary]

Sepia is right Daedalus, you can't really blame the creators of mods you need to blame the players that choose to play them over other versions. People rarely ever play the normal complex doom online anymore because they feel like the addons make it more fun and spice things up a little and I totally agree. If you updated more, addons would be updated also eventually getting the same effect in servers as there is now. I really don't see what's so hard about just not playing if you don't enjoy something, no need to constantly complain as that's not doing anything but causing arguments and making yourself look bad. This forum post was started so that I could get a good understanding about what to do and what not to do with lca and to report bugs to me that need fixing. Not for hate comments that really don't help as they don't really address issues with the mod itself.

[Daedalus]

Are you directing that towards me? I clearly stated in my last post exactly what you just said and that I was glad it was around after my departure. There were no complaints.

Right about what exactly? He and you both completely disregarded my post to rant about irrelevant nonsense. What in any of my posts makes me look bad other than calling the both of you out on said irrelevant posts right now? Still impossible for you to take criticism (not from me, from others) and accept that I'm not a fan of your addon is all I read from that, honestly.

[Legendary]

In a way I'm sort of glad it did, had it not been around before I left this the main might have died off over time. It kind of picked up my slack (in a horribly crude way that is) and has guaranteed when I actually decide to update again I will have a player base to work with (or even pull back completely, heh).

Because saying in a horribly crude way is a nice way of talking about something. You've said many other things in the past that aren't on record also. I don't see how it's impossible for me to take criticism when I listen to what people have a legitimate complaint about and adjust accordingly. As long as the criticism will help me get better at what I'm doing then I don't have a problem with it. Hell I'm even making a new weapon to replace a current one due to some criticism I received about it by many people.

[Daedalus]

You're getting all hormonal because I said the addon kept the mod alive in a crude way? I apologise, didn't realise you were that sensitive.

Please do not even bother with that past card shenanigans, yes I have voiced my opinion about the addon in the past whenever I was asked about it, everyone knew about my views on it, I never forced players to play without the addon (pls aenima, I was young, dumb and vulnerable). Unlike the crap you did on the old BE FF servers (remember when you got banned and blamed me?) or sending your rabid fans to non-addon servers to trash talk.

I also apologise to the forum admins for derailing, I should really just ignore this but, eh. They started it?

I will not post in this thread anymore, I promise.

[Legendary]

See here you go spewing nonsense again, I never sent anyone to any server to say anything. Just listen to yourself, what sense does that make? I can't control people or tell them to do anything they do it on their own will. I know what I've done in the past and I've already paid my dues. You're just trying to put everything on me when all I'm trying to do is have a normal conversation and you come out of nowhere hurling insults.

[Skeleton]

I understand mifu but here the problem is a bit more complicated you know, when I look at the wad list of the current server complex-doom.v26a2.pk3 and lca-v1.5.8.pk3 are no more used, they have been replaced by some "-opt" which is supposed to "optimize" the gameplay I have nothing against that but here again it will confuse people in the end.

It seems to me "-opt" mean to optional. Sorry but I think that you confused yourself.

nope, forrest said "opt" mean optimized and its fake because he added extra shit on every addon (complex,lca and rm) like the demon tech rocket launcher for complex or the true legendary rune for lca.

[mifu]

I also apologise to the forum admins for derailing, I should really just ignore this but, eh. They started it?

I will not post in this thread anymore, I promise.

Dont stress. This post below this line started it

To mod or not to mod a Mod of a Mod...To tell the truth, the day you stopped updating your own Mod, you lose to others who mod your Mod and make it better then yours and you can't complain about people liking it either, its their choice.

If you just update your own without caring about all those (Optional) addons then maybe you might get the public to back you up again...

Let me remind you all on what the topic lead to and what the topic should be right now. Its about the mass amount of files needed to run Complex doom right now (including LCA) since using every addon seems to become standardised throughout the place which is causing issues for some people to host the server as their irc client has a limit on how many characters it can send and it exceeds it. This is also about how many people have issues with the load order for their server as Marcaek pointed out.

So drop the bullshit of blaming people or telling the person who is responsible for the mod you love so much being complex doom that if he updated more this would not happen and lets discuss some ideas or possible solutions to this problem. Akore did a good start, so lets follow up from that.

Also

Lets ban jumpmaze too since it has more wads than complex doom.

ITT: People who don't have a solid argument to ban complex doom aside from the usual, "I'm tired of seeing this on my server browser!!!"

Despite me disliking complex doom, I dont wish it to be nuked of the server list. I wouldn't go out of my way to actually say there's a problem with it being so much files in the first place if I did not have a good reason to, but we do. We have a good reason to point this out because every day TSPG staff watch people try to host complex doom and fail. I guess what im trying to say here is, according to most people who have attempted to host complex doom recently say its too hard and honestly they are right. Now I dont see jumpmaze having this problem at all so I am sure every addon maker can sort something out.

I believe one of our staff members right now is trying to get a discussion going to discuss on a good way to sort this out.

[Sepia-Paper]

I also apologise to the forum admins for derailing, I should really just ignore this but, eh. They started it?

I will not post in this thread anymore, I promise.

Dont stress. This post below this line started it

To mod or not to mod a Mod of a Mod...To tell the truth, the day you stopped updating your own Mod, you lose to others who mod your Mod and make it better then yours and you can't complain about people liking it either, its their choice.

If you just update your own without caring about all those (Optional) addons then maybe you might get the public to back you up again...

Let me remind you all on what the topic lead to and what the topic should be right now. Its about the mass amount of files needed to run Complex doom right now (including LCA) since using every addon seems to become standardised throughout the place which is causing issues for some people to host the server as their irc client has a limit on how many characters it can send and it exceeds it. This is also about how many people have issues with the load order for their server as Marcaek pointed out.

So drop the bullshit of blaming people or telling the person who is responsible for the mod you love so much being complex doom that if he updated more this would not happen and lets discuss some ideas or possible solutions to this problem. Akore did a good start, so lets follow up from that.

Also

Lets ban jumpmaze too since it has more wads than complex doom.

ITT: People who don't have a solid argument to ban complex doom aside from the usual, "I'm tired of seeing this on my server browser!!!"

Despite me disliking complex doom, I dont wish it to be nuked of the server list. I wouldn't go out of my way to actually say there's a problem with it being so much files in the first place if I did not have a good reason to, but we do. We have a good reason to point this out because every day TSPG staff watch people try to host complex doom and fail. I guess what im trying to say here is, according to most people who have attempted to host complex doom recently say its too hard and honestly they are right. Now I dont see jumpmaze having this problem at all so I am sure every addon maker can sort something out.

I believe one of our staff members right now is trying to get a discussion going to discuss on a good way to sort this out.

Agree~

[Doomenator]

nope, forrest said "opt" mean optimized and its fake because he added extra shit on every addon (complex,lca and rm) like the demon tech rocket launcher for complex or the true legendary rune for lca.

What difference does it make? The essence of the answer remains the same.
It did not confuse me. Why this confuse others?

I am personally against any prohibitions. But I think that complex-doom.v26a2-opt.pk3 should be banned.
It's not an addon, it is a modification of the original. I've seen attempts to make a sequel and pass them off as original.
Daedalus gave permission to do so?

[Legendary]

I also apologise to the forum admins for derailing, I should really just ignore this but, eh. They started it?

I will not post in this thread anymore, I promise.

Dont stress. This post below this line started it

To mod or not to mod a Mod of a Mod...To tell the truth, the day you stopped updating your own Mod, you lose to others who mod your Mod and make it better then yours and you can't complain about people liking it either, its their choice.

If you just update your own without caring about all those (Optional) addons then maybe you might get the public to back you up again...

Let me remind you all on what the topic lead to and what the topic should be right now. Its about the mass amount of files needed to run Complex doom right now (including LCA) since using every addon seems to become standardised throughout the place which is causing issues for some people to host the server as their irc client has a limit on how many characters it can send and it exceeds it. This is also about how many people have issues with the load order for their server as Marcaek pointed out.

So drop the bullshit of blaming people or telling the person who is responsible for the mod you love so much being complex doom that if he updated more this would not happen and lets discuss some ideas or possible solutions to this problem. Akore did a good start, so lets follow up from that.

Also

Lets ban jumpmaze too since it has more wads than complex doom.

ITT: People who don't have a solid argument to ban complex doom aside from the usual, "I'm tired of seeing this on my server browser!!!"

Despite me disliking complex doom, I dont wish it to be nuked of the server list. I wouldn't go out of my way to actually say there's a problem with it being so much files in the first place if I did not have a good reason to, but we do. We have a good reason to point this out because every day TSPG staff watch people try to host complex doom and fail. I guess what im trying to say here is, according to most people who have attempted to host complex doom recently say its too hard and honestly they are right. Now I dont see jumpmaze having this problem at all so I am sure every addon maker can sort something out.

I believe one of our staff members right now is trying to get a discussion going to discuss on a good way to sort this out.

I agree, we just need to focus on the task at hand. I think we need to either send the modders a link to this thread or make a channel for all the complex doom modders so that we can all have a real time conversation about how we're going to fix this. That way we will be able to see if everyone is on board with the idea. Nax made a channel but I forgot the name of it.

nope, forrest said "opt" mean optimized and its fake because he added extra shit on every addon (complex,lca and rm) like the demon tech rocket launcher for complex or the true legendary rune for lca.

What difference does it make? The essence of the answer remains the same.
It did not confuse me. Why this confuse others?

I am personally against any prohibitions. But I think that complex-doom.v26a2-opt.pk3 should be banned.
It's not an addon, it is a modification of the original. I've seen attempts to make a sequel and pass them off as original.
Daedalus gave permission to do so?

Skeleton kind of does have a point. I've received several pms asking to fix things that are in lca-opt when I am not the creator of the opt pk3. You'd have to ask ForestMarkX to see if he got permission to make the complex-doom.v26a2-opt.pk3. Either way he already told me that he was going to get the pk3's banned since they weren't what they were advertised to be. He has since made a new version of opt that strictly focuses on lag improvement and things of that nature. He also made it so that his opt addons would be in a seperate pk3, though that adds yet another addon that people have to load. His new version has been out for over a week it's just that people aren't hosting with it which is why he's resulted to trying to get the wad banned.

[ForrestMarkX]

nope, forrest said "opt" mean optimized and its fake because he added extra shit on every addon (complex,lca and rm) like the demon tech rocket launcher for complex or the true legendary rune for lca.

What difference does it make? The essence of the answer remains the same.
It did not confuse me. Why this confuse others?

I am personally against any prohibitions. But I think that complex-doom.v26a2-opt.pk3 should be banned.
It's not an addon, it is a modification of the original. I've seen attempts to make a sequel and pass them off as original.
Daedalus gave permission to do so?

I did get permission but I keep getting a feeling I was talking to the wrong Daedalus. I say such because the reply I got was "Sure whatever"

Edit: I was just informed by Daedalus that this was indeed the wrong person so now I have to remove v25a3 opt and make ANOTHER addon that moves the opt code changes over (I can't move the sprite optimizations for obvious reasons)