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IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:55 am
by mifu
Hi folks,

As you are aware, Konar6 has officially resigned. This means IRC server administration is kinda in limbo right now which is going to change this weekend.
Unfortunately I have not received konar's files for the irc server so I will need to rebuild the network from scratch.

This means that unfortunately, your channels and nickserv registrations are not going to carry over and you will need to re-set everything up on the new irc servers.

We wont be changing the ircd software (though we are most likely going to upgrade it as we are currently using an old version)

Anyways I will post updates as we go along here and will let you guys know what you need to do closer to the time we swap over.

For now, watch this space!

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:27 pm
by Sean
woo coup d'irc finally
<meleemario> so where will IRC be moving to?
<MiFU> there will be a node on the zandronum.com box
<MiFU> possibly a node on one of csnxs's boxes
<MiFU> and i may host one on tspg

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:19 pm
by Ivan
mifu wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:55 am
Unfortunately I have not received konar's files for the irc server so I will need to rebuild the network from scratch.
I believe you're never getting those files, knowing Konar...

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:01 pm
by Sentey
What is IRC? How to fire IRC?

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:27 pm
by Zakken
Looks like it'll be a pain to restore things back to how they were, but I'm sure this move will be worth it in the long run. No thanks to Konar though

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:03 am
by Doomkid
Sentey wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:01 pm
What is IRC? How to fire IRC?
Post reported and flagged for abuse, nukes have officially been sent to your location

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:19 am
by Konda
Damn, I wonder if something happened to the guy. Dude's been unreachable even by top grandvoid admins.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:55 pm
by Sentey
Doomkid wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:03 am
Sentey wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:01 pm
What is IRC? How to fire IRC?
Post reported and flagged for abuse, nukes have officially been sent to your location
Holy shit. Finally!

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:37 pm
by AlexMax
Decay wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:59 pm
And thus the shackles of servitude fall to your feet
Yeah, about that...

Now seems like as good of a time as any to bring this question up again - is there anything to be gained from Zandronum running its own IRC network?

To me, it seems like a gigantic maintenance, financial, and trust burden that could easily be offloaded to another, already existing network like Quakenet. Let them worry about keeping the network up and services alive, and all you have to bother with is moderating channels.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:42 pm
by Ru5tK1ng
Since we're moving to a new IRC server perhaps we can finally get rid of that Discord bot. There is no official Zandronum Discord so why is it even there? Unless it is relaying from the painkillerr discord I see no reason for it.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:54 am
by The Toxic Avenger
CHANNEL ADMINS/OPS: TO MAKE THE MOVE EASIER, PLEASE TRY TO NOTE DOWN CHANNEL BANS, MODES, AND OTHER SETTINGS
That way you can start right where you left off before the move. It's some work, sure, but it'll help.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:40 am
by Sean
Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:42 pm
Since we're moving to a new IRC server perhaps we can finally get rid of that Discord bot. There is no official Zandronum Discord so why is it even there? Unless it is relaying from the painkillerr discord I see no reason for it.
It's relaying from a special server. https://discord.gg/FcZKu7g

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:42 am
by Doomkid
I would personally love to see #Zandronum and other Zand-related channels moving to Quakenet. I'm already in quite a few other Doomy channels on that network, would make life easier for us laymen as well as the admins!

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:54 am
by Fused
Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:42 pm
Since we're moving to a new IRC server perhaps we can finally get rid of that Discord bot. There is no official Zandronum Discord so why is it even there? Unless it is relaying from the painkillerr discord I see no reason for it.
But I see no reason to remove it either. What does removing it fix? It's quite useful because it actually logs channels.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:35 am
by Konda
The problem could be that admins can't gline people anymore on Quakenet like they could on Zandronum IRC. You know, things like spam bots and extremely toxic people. I guess that means no ircops either.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:58 pm
by The Toxic Avenger
Yeah, using another network means you lose that "control" you kind of need, imagine having to go to an outside set of IRC ops every time a spambot or Shadowfox shows up. They'd hate us

and in order to even get someone like Shadowfox for example gone, we'd have to explain everything to them and they might not even comply. People we disposed of here for various reasons might be completely free to roam among us again should we move to another network because their IRC op team might not be in line with our reasons for it.

Also whitelisting those in master rangebans is going to be annoying as a lot seem to have no idea how to provide an IP and with the current setup, ops can just pull their IP right off of IRC. If we use another network, that's not possible.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:52 pm
by AlexMax
It is possible to get somebody's IP just by doing a reverse DNS lookup on their hostname, which is visible to everybody. The only way that this can be bypassed is by a client hiding their hostname, but that's only possible for those who auth with Q. Quakenet's ircd has been modified so banning their hidden host also bans their "real" host behind the scenes.

I wouldn't be so worried about "annoying them". Quakenet doesn't want spambots on their network any more than you do.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:33 am
by mifu
Another concern that was raised actually when I was asking some people how they felt if we moved to quakenet was the (allegedly) lack of SSL connectivity.

According to some people, secure connections is more important for their irc then anything else. In anycase, for now atleast we will stick with our own irc network (just because i kinda need to get it done asap and I have already started). After a few weeks we can discuss of potentially moving to quakenet as most likely im going to need most of the devs around to see how they would feel about it also.

Re: IMPORTANT - IRC Server rebuilds

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:36 pm
by AlexMax
mifu wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:33 am
Another concern that was raised actually when I was asking some people how they felt if we moved to quakenet was the (allegedly) lack of SSL connectivity.
That is correct. Quakenet has taken their time on implementing SSL support because they were not convinced of SSL's upsides specifically for IRC. The whole "relay" part of Internet Relay Chat kind of throws a few wrenches into the mix that don't exist in protocols like HTTPS.
  • Implementing SSL correctly for a distributed network is incredibly difficult and easy to get wrong. Freenode for years shared their private key between servers, which meant that when a single server on the network was compromised, the entire thing was rendered compromised and pointless. One of the networks I'm connected to right now offers SSL, but only over self-signed or expired certificates.
  • There is no protection against clicking past certificate warnings. Any certificate warning is a potential MITM, which means that there is no way to guarantee the security of...say...a channel that only allows users using SSL into it. A single user in that channel could ruin the whole thing.
  • Q (their NickServ bot) has support for a special challenge-response authentication protocol that does not transmit passwords over cleartext. Thus, they don't need SSL to protect nickserv passwords.
However, I understand where fans of SSL are coming from, as it is effective against passive network traffic sniffing - so your ISP or people on a public Wifi hotspot have no idea what's going on in any of the channels you're in, and are likely not interested enough to do any sort of active compromise. I just think that putting the positives and negatives on the table is useful for when we return to the discussion.