Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

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Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#1

Post by Ænima » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:15 pm

Download link here. (There's no thread for this project but I received the author's permission to do a review.)
Spoiler: note: this mod has no maps, the maps in these screenshots are from WOS.wad (Open)
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Complex Doom ... The name is pretty misleading, because gameplay-wise, this mod is pretty simple. It's a "replacer" mod which adds effects, reskins the weapons, and replaces every monster with a harder one -- most of which come from the Realm667 Beastiary. So it's basically another HardDoom, in that regard.


But before I unfairly compare this mod to another one, I suppose I should comment on some things that are specific to this mod. For example, the portable health and armor bonuses. For some reason, you seem to pick up a lot of these. You'll be low on health and go to use them, because you'll think that they're portable stimpacks, only to find out that they heal like 5hp at a time. Which doesn't amount to squat considering that many monsters' attacks will do like 50 points of damage at a time. And it's stressful to have to take your hand off the mouse during a potential firefight and hit the enter key just for a small HP or armor bump, since doing so can actually fuck you over. I suppose you can just bind "useitem" to a mouse button or a key closer to your left hand, but whatever.


The HUD is pretty nice, it's that "Doomguy Visor HUD" that's been floating around the ZDoom forums for a while now. The only problem is, you need to hit the minus key and reduce your screensize by one in order to see it. Which means that when you're done playing this mod and go to play something else, you'll have the default Doom hudbar down at the bottom and you'll need to bump your screenblocks back up to 11 again ... Unless you like the vanilla HUD bar, that is.


The effects are pleasing to the eye. Most of them are ripped from other mods but some look unique enough to call "original". Except for the Nashgore. Honestly, I got bored of Nashgore by 2009. (Incase you don't know what Nashgore is, it's that really generic flying blood that you see in everything nowadays. [pic]) Any time I see it in a mod nowadays, I cringe. It's basically like the author is telling me "I don't know how to make decent-looking blood effects on my own, so I'm just going to copy+paste Nashgore in here". But whatever, I guess it's better than Brutal Doom's cartoony blood splashes. Oh but speaking of Brutal Doom ...
[spoiler]
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Image
[/spoiler]


This mod does contain a few resources which were also used in Brutal Doom. Which is fine, since SgtMark didn't make them himself anyways. The shotgun sprite (which was made by Mike12) is also in BD. It's a nice sprite and I don't mind it. The plasma gun, however, is also the BD plasmagun, which looks really dumb IMO, and there are so many better plasma rifle sprite alternatives out there that Caco could have used. Anything looks better than a hairdryer with caution tape on it.


Most of the other weapons are nice, though. Some require reloading while others don't, which is kind of an inconsistency, but I can understand why this was done since I did the same thing in Super Skulltag. Reloading isn't used for "realism", instead it's used as a balance on weapons which would otherwise be nonstop rape-machines, such as the automatic shotgun and the railgun. The only thing that bothers me is that the ammo in the clip counts UP as you shoot instead of decreasing, much like that abomination of a mod known as AlandoGuns. I have no idea why the author chose to do this since it confuses players, and it's just as easy to code in-clip ammo that counts DOWN. Oh also, this mod makes use of PreferredSkin (aka having your player sprite change to show what weapon you're carrying), but then again pretty much every mod nowadays uses that.


When it comes to the monsters, don't expect any surprises -- except for the BFG zombie that replaces the shotgunner, which totally blew my ass away in the FIRST MAP of the Whispers of Satan megawad. That was an unpleasant surprise. But other than that, most monster replacements are pretty predictable. Imps get replaced by either brown Devils or Dark Imps. Pinkies are replaced by either BloodFiends or "MagmaFiends", aka BloodFiends that breathe fire. Cacodemons are replaced by Abaddons. Barons are replaced by Bruisers or Afrits. Mancubi are replaced by either Hectebi or Acubi, and VERY RARELY, Behemoths, which are flying Mancubi that will rape your shit. So basically, every monster is from the Realm667 Beastiary with minor edits made in terms of balance ...
[spoiler]
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[/spoiler]


Gameplay feels identical to HardDoom. Not much else to be said here. Expect to spend a LOT of time being pinned down, usually with low health. If you join a server that's hosting this, it will usually always be survival. But if you choose to play it offline in singleplayer, you will NEED to use the console command for damage factor scalar ("sv_coop_damagefactor 0.5" is what I use). Otherwise you won't get very far.


I feel as if I'm doing this mod some sort of injustice by comparing it to HardDoom, but honestly that's what it feels like. It's like an alternate version of HardDoom, or a sequel maybe (if replacer mods had sequels). You have fancy guns with smooth animations, you fight ridiculously-overpowered monsters, and there's shiny eye-candy and firey explosion effects everywhere. Nothing sets this mod apart except for the cool HUD and the pointless health/armor inventory items.


There's a few servers up with this, which usually have anywhere from 2 to 5 players in them at any given time, so I guess it has a decent amount of replay value. For now. But honestly, unless the author intends to implement some sort of unique features or gameplay mechanics, then I don't expect players to play this for very much longer before getting bored and moving on to the next replacer mod.

SCORE
Visuals = 8/10. It's very pretty, but the Nashgore's gotta go.

Gameplay = 7/10. For the most part, it's pretty balanced. It's just really hard. Best played with at least 3 people. It would also be nice if those portable health/AP items weren't so useless.

Originality = 4/10. Meh. There is almost nothing in this mod that we haven't seen before. Although I will say that it's better than ALL of the other "Realm667 mashup" wads that get churned out on a yearly basis. At least this mod pays some attention to detail and balance instead of just shoving lots of random R667 monsters/weapons into one wad.

Replay value = 5/10. It does feel like a breath of fresh air compared to all of the other mods being hosted lately, but at the end of the day it just feels like another Hard Doom.

FINAL SCORE = 6/10.


Overall, not a bad mod at all. Pretty fun to play in a Survival server with a few friends. I guess it's more of a casual thing. Don't except to be totally addicted though ... As I mentioned before, this mod really needs some sort of unique features or interesting gameplay mechanic to set it apart from others if it wants to keep players interested. Until then, it's still a pretty fun replacer mod. :cool:
Last edited by Ænima on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#2

Post by Slim » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:04 pm

Seems fair enough, I would've given it a 5/10 or a 4/10. Considering when bundled with the right megawad, ruins the fun, and turns the suffering dial higher. Otherwise, you summed it up nicely.
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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#3

Post by Ænima » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:22 am

Suicide Slim wrote: Seems fair enough, I would've given it a 5/10 or a 4/10. Considering when bundled with the right megawad, ruins the fun, and turns the suffering dial higher. Otherwise, you summed it up nicely.
I was considering giving it a lower score, but it's just a simple "replacer" mod so honestly my expectations weren't that high.

When it comes to replacer mods, this one is a step above "mediocre" but a step below "great". Mods like Shooting Monsters With Guns and Echo Path are replacer mods as well, but they have unique gameplay that set them apart from everything else and give you a reason to remember them. Like the ability to dual-wield different weapons at the same time in SMWG, or quick-fire spellcasting abilities in Echo Path.


I understand if it was the author's intention to deliberately stay as "vanilla" as possible in terms of gameplay (aside from the health and armor items mentioned in the OP), but by doing that he's really losing players. In the Complex Doom servers I've played in, the players who join (who are patient enough to wait for the next round/map without disconnecting) usually play for a few maps, then disconnect and don't come back. There's only a few players other than myself (and Caco of course) who play it online on a semi-often basis ... and even then, it's the same group that just joins the server because they see that their friends are in it (Cruduxy, Predator, Slim, cough cough :p).
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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#4

Post by Yellowtail » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:52 am

Ænima wrote:In the Complex Doom servers I've played in, the players who join (who are patient enough to wait for the next round/map without disconnecting) usually play for a few maps, then disconnect and don't come back. There's only a few players other than myself (and Caco of course) who play it online on a semi-often basis ... and even then, it's the same group that just joins the server because they see that their friends are in it (Cruduxy, Predator, Slim, cough cough :p).
I think a big reason why that's the case is because of the fact that they have the ammo respawn WAD added on to the servers.

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#5

Post by -Jes- » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:51 am

I haven't even tried this mod and yet this was pretty much what I expected.
Am I jaded or what! :|


Now where's my rga2ref 1.21 (release pending) review?
Last edited by -Jes- on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#6

Post by Ænima » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:21 am

-Jes- wrote: I haven't even tried this mod and yet this was pretty much what I expected.
Eh. It's worth playing at least once. I was in a Complex Doom Scythe2 survival server with Wideass earlier. There was fun present. And Hot Pockets.


-Jes- wrote: Now where's my rga2ref 1.21 (release pending) review?
OHSHI


I totally forgot. D:

But before i write up a review, it would help if you made up a basic changelog that at least lists major changes, that way I can make RGA2REF sound appetizing to players who haven't touched RGA2 in years (because of the large amounts of suck and unbalance it contained back then).
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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#7

Post by -Jes- » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:52 am

Ænima wrote: it would help if you made up a basic changelog
Welp... The first lump in the _code file is A changelog. :lol:

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#8

Post by Ænima » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:24 pm

-Jes- wrote:
Ænima wrote: it would help if you made up a basic changelog
Welp... The first lump in the _code file is A changelog. :lol:
... How long has that been there? :wonk:


I'll take a look when I get home from work.


OH, something that I forgot to mention in my review is the Revenant footstep sounds. I think the author was going for a "bone hitting pavement" sound, but it actually sounds exactly like castanets. So when there's like 3 revenants roaming around in the room next to me, it sounds like some prog-flamenco breakdown. :eek:
Last edited by Ænima on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#9

Post by Cruduxy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:01 pm

I dont think I count as regular as I haven't played in any server for like 2 months now :P
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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#10

Post by Daedalus » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:47 am

phpBB [video]
The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag
Thought I'd throw up a little video to show you all what it's like, doesn't really do it much justice though.

I've noticed people are very touchy about stuff used from the R667 repository, I don't really get that. Isn't that what its for? to download and use resources in other maps and modifications?

Also in the review, it seems to be basically saying I took a whole bunch of monsters from directly from there, changed them a little and threw them into a pk3 creating a mod. This is kind of true for the odd few monsters but all I really went on there for were the SPRITES (yes even if they have been used to the point of them being as dry as a bone). I even went looking around on the ZDoom spriting carnival and found some decent sprite sheets to use (credited authors ofc. Props to whoever made that Unmaker Mancubus, if they even mosy around these parts).

Most of the monsters do not even behave like their original actors from the R667 site, like I said above, yes some of them do and like the reviewer says they were edited, but the majority of them are completely different. Dont believe me? try it for yourself. Seriously.

I just get a tad nit-picky when people are quick to pull the trigger and call it an R667 "ripfest" simply because it uses resources from there.

Other than that, I'm happy with the review, it's kinda what I expected.

Oh, one other thing, be sure to watch some areas in that video where those "pointless" inventory items actually save my ass :smile: . I also asked a few of my regular players if they were worthless, they didn't seem to think so.

EDIT:
Cruduxy wrote: I dont think I count as regular as I haven't played in any server for like 2 months now :P
Where have you been? Me and Breach miss you so much. :razz:
Last edited by Daedalus on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#11

Post by Ænima » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:33 pm

Cacodemon wrote: Most of the monsters do not even behave like their original actors from the R667 site, like I said above, yes some of them do and like the reviewer says they were edited, but the majority of them are completely different. Dont believe me? try it for yourself. Seriously.

I just get a tad nit-picky when people are quick to pull the trigger and call it an R667 "ripfest" simply because it uses resources from there.
Sorry if it sounded like I was pinning your mod as an R667 ripfest. Honestly, I don't lurk the Beastiary and download every monster just to try it out, so I'd have no way of knowing that yours behaved much differently. I just know that I saw them there while browsing. :p

I also didn't know that you used sources other than the Beastiary. Maybe I should have checked the CREDITS file (which was hiding at the bottom of the pk3 instead of the top ...), so I apologize for that.

Cacodemon wrote: Oh, one other thing, be sure to watch some areas in that video where those "pointless" inventory items actually save my ass :smile: . I also asked a few of my regular players if they were worthless, they didn't seem to think so.
That may be so, but still, I have a better idea that doesn't involve mashing the Enter button 6 times just for a health recharge ...

Howbout turning the HP/AP bonus pickups into "charge packs". There could be a bar somewhere on the hud that represents your "battery" percentage. When you press and hold Alt-fire (since none of your weapons use it), a weapon will quickly be selected (use my Mercenaries v1.9 syringe if you want) that will recharge you health 1% every 7 tics until you either release Alt-fire or run out of charge, whichever comes first. Make it force the player to stand still, though (that way they can't just spam it anywhere).

This way, the player can keep his hand on the mouse, and he can also administer the exact "dosage" of health that he needs.
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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#12

Post by De-M-oN » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:14 pm

The plasma gun, however, is also the BD plasmagun, which looks really dumb IMO, and there are so many better plasma rifle sprite alternatives out there that Caco could have used. Anything looks better than a hairdryer with caution tape on it.
You're so right .. I honestly dont like this plasma gun as well :/

I really prefer the vanilla plasma sprite.. And for that exists a high detail version. I believe it was in "beautiful doom". But the main problem is sure the reload sprites. And maybe thats the cause why he used this plasma rifle sprites.

Also the new archvile fire effect of the "exile". Its awesome and unique - but me misses the fire though. Maybe add the original arch vile into the randomization? Or a variant which uses the fire effect again? (the diabolist has a small fire though, but they're very rare, because of higher tier vile) In general I would prefer it to have the vanilla monsters as well in the randomization to be honest. If you think they're too easy for complex, give them for example a +ALWAYSFAST flag? Yes that would indeed be cool! So we would have the vanilla monsters into the mix as well :) And the arch vile with fire would be back as well :D You could use the fire effect of the arch viles in "ultimate torment & torture" - it looks so goddamn awesome!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3lgpwMOCuO0/maxresdefault.jpg

And you have a typo in the obituaries of the diabolists. You call them Diabloist there. But that are Diabolists.

And what also could be nice is a silenced pistol with a +NOALERT Flag, so you can kill silently some zombies ^.^ Maybe as a better version of the starting pistol.

I love the chainsaw :D It is able to painlock revenants, thats cool :D

Nicest weapons of course the Quad Shotgun and DTech BFG :)
I love shotguns and then even a quad is cool ;D

The assault rifle is nice too, it fits very well into the game, it makes you really feel its purpose to kill zombies with it.
Oh also, this mod makes use of PreferredSkin (aka having your player sprite change to show what weapon you're carrying), but then again pretty much every mod nowadays uses that.
And I really like that :)
Last edited by De-M-oN on Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#13

Post by Kara Kurt » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:16 pm

That's a poor final score but whatever I kind of agree with the op overally.

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#14

Post by De-M-oN » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:22 pm

Oh and what I disliked already about brutal doom:

Cacodemon's Dodge speed.

Isnt it possible to make it quarter or at least half the speed?

It feels so wrong if a heavy mass monster dodges as fast as an attacking lost soul lol (or does it even faster? wouldnt wonder me lol)

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#15

Post by Kara Kurt » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:02 pm

Looks like someone is confusing the stinky-ass BrutalDoom with ComplexDoom :rolleyes:

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#16

Post by De-M-oN » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:12 pm

The cacos dont dodge slower here (and if then not much). so no.

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#17

Post by Kara Kurt » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:24 pm

Your question is offtopic then, just saying.

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#18

Post by De-M-oN » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:29 pm

Complex Doom has fast dodging cacodemons. So where is it offtopic now to complex doom? o.O

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#19

Post by Kara Kurt » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:33 pm

De-M-oN wrote: Oh and what I disliked already about brutal doom:
Cacodemon's Dodge speed.
...I was assuming BD has the Caco dodge speed feature too?

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RE: Complex Doom v13a - review by Ænima

#20

Post by De-M-oN » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:38 pm

yeah and?

the magical word is: "too".

It is in your opinion now offtopic to suggest slower dodging cacodemons, because I mentioned that brutal doom has them as well? (and I only mentioned that BD has also fast dodging cacodemons, because it was the first mod where I got in touch with the fast dodging cacos and so I said "it looked wrong to me "already" at BD.

So what do you want from me? I dont get it.
Last edited by De-M-oN on Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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