Zandronum 2.1

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Zalewa
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#61

Post by Zalewa » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:26 pm

Lollipop wrote: Now, hosting nearly anything as a test server with BE could be great, and would be even greater if the test build thing was defaulted to 'on' in doomseeker, so none would think it wasn't there. The user can just disable it if one do not want it enabled, right?
I think I can agree on the point that disabling testing builds in Doomseeker serves no real purpose. Joining a testing server with non-testing client will result in authentication failure anyway, and Doomseeker always gives user an option to abort joining a testing server if there's no testing client installed on disk yet.
Lollipop wrote:I think I tried the testing thing in doomseeker at some point without it working, not sure if I recall correctly though.
I use the testing thing in Doomseeker constantly. I play Doom frequently on private server with a friend and we almost always try to stay up-to-date with testing binaries. Testing thing functions properly in Doomseeker, I can vouch for that.
Last edited by Zalewa on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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arkore
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#62

Post by arkore » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:36 pm

Torr Samaho wrote:, people just stopped using the automatic testing system. And now we apparently reached a point where people actually forget that that testing system exists, even though I explicitly tried to advertise it not too long ago, see here for instance.
Okay, I went to that thread, and here are the problems I feel (IMO) are the problems.

NOTE: The "..." is not a *sigh*

<Torr Samaho> ... "Here is the new 2.0 beta" ...
Problem here is 1) that no one knows to come here to see your message, and 2) the person feels they have to do something special (from here) to to test something, when the player would prefer not to and would rather just continue their normal routine of using doomseeker to connect to a server that is automatically updated for them.

<Torr Samaho> ... "Be sure" ...
Problem here is that this already sounds like a person needs to be careful, thereby feeling like more effort is required on their part to do this.

<Torr Samaho> ... "test this build thoroughly" ...
Problem here is that the person is being asked to be thorough, thereby feeling more effort is required.

<Torr Samaho> ... "it would be great if" ...
Problem here is that the person reading this feels like something isn't complete yet, thereby feeling they don't need to begin their testing yet.

<Torr Samaho> ... "and the players activate the automatic testing feature in their launcher" ...
Problem here is 1) that players don't know how to activate this, and 2) they are being asked to do something extra -- which isn't that bad, if you said "you only need to do this once." too.
Solution: Make doomseeker default to having this activated.


<Torr Samaho> ... "use the beta servers" ...
Problem here is that this statement can be interpreted in different ways, mainly interpreted as that the person needs to do something "special" to "use beta servers", when really all you're merely saying is to connect to a server (like you normally do) that is flagged as beta.
Solution: Clarify that this is not some special action, and that the person connects to a beta server as they normally do when connecting to any server. Simply join any server from the list, that is flagged as a beta server. Or best to not even say any of this at all.


http://zandronum.com/download#betas
Problem here is that 1) this page is telling players to do a bunch of stuff, and 2) the stuff being said isn't even how to do beta testing.

<Cruduxy> "You have to teach those people to use the feature though haha. Now you'll have to teach how" ...
Problem here is that people read this and believe they need to be taught something special to do, to do testing, thereby feeling more effort is required.

<Torr Samaho> "First Doomseeker and IDE actually need to do something with the additional information ;)."
Problem here is that a person reads this and feels something isn't done yet, thereby feeling they won't start testing yet.

<Combinebobnt> "I'll bother" ...
See here "bother" is a sign of "effort" required.

<Zalewa> "We've just released an update" ...
Problem here is that people aren't coming to this thread to see this, and if they did -- not sure what this post really means. I believe people would prefer to see this message in Doomseeker, and click a link to update. Or better yet, be forced to update.

---

Another problem is that doomseeker doesn't force updates, therefore many people will not update because it's optional. I understand that making it optional is good -- but on the other hand, it's hurting us. It's my belief that many users will ignore the "Update" button, because that requires effort and person feels also there is possibility something can go wrong and doesn't (and never) want to deal with that possibility. Also the person has no reason (him/herself) to do an update if Doomseeker is already working fine for them.
Solution: Force updates.

---

Another Solution: Make doomseeker be setup for beta testing by default, pointing to something that auto-updates, etc. Same concept of how it points to a master server by default.

---
---
---

After all this, I still don't know how to easily test a build, and there are no servers running a test build.

---

Recommendation: Utilize both forums and Doomseeker for providing these posts/updates to users. Users do not frequent the forums as much as you'd like them to. They frequent Doomseeker.

Lollipop
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#63

Post by Lollipop » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:57 pm

I must admit that I do not really like installing Doomseeker updates, the version I use works and I have had some issues with software updates not working in the past. Another thing is that it will eat the internet for a while, and that is time I will have to wait until I can play on a server.
About using Doomseeker as a news channel... I really like the idea, it will make sure that a lot of players will get informed about important updates and so on. Right now the only people getting updates quickly are people such as me who check the forum nearly daily.
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Zalewa
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#64

Post by Zalewa » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:00 pm

Lollipop wrote: I must admit that I do not really like installing Doomseeker updates, the version I use works and I have had some issues with software updates not working in the past. Another thing is that it will eat the internet for a while, and that is time I will have to wait until I can play on a server.
Please don't confuse Doomseeker updates and installation of beta Zandronum clients. These two things are completely separate, both regarding the user experience and under the hood.
Doomseeker - a real answer to cross-platform server browser.
Doomseeker dev builds - unofficial Doomseeker builds for Windows.
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#65

Post by Lollipop » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Oh my, I am sorry, I made a misinterpretation of Akores post. I suppose I shoulds make posts when it is 22:00...
Spoiler: Modding Qualifications (Open)
ACS: I like to create complex systems.
DECORATE: Bit boring, unless it gets complex.
Maps: I only map for testing ACS.
GFX: Not enough time or experience.

If you need help, advice or similar, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
Spoiler: My Current Projects (Open)
> AOW branch (Paused because others do the same)
> ACS DOM - An ACS based domination gamemode. (I'm too lazy to get this done, but feel free to bug me about it.)
> Various undeveloped ideas.
Combinebobnt wrote:i can see the forum league is taking off much better than the ctf ones

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Leonard
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#66

Post by Leonard » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:52 pm

I think everyone here is missing what the problem actually is.
The problem isn't that people became too lazy, the problem is that right now, the developers seem to expect the community to do and organize all the testing on its own, without any external help.
Making the whole testing process automatic wouldn't solve anything (even through it pretty much already is) since people still need to organize a testing session or do it on their own.

Spoiler: I asked Arco about a testing team/session (Open)
Image
And this was a year ago and the problem is still the same now.
As you can see, there is absolutely no testing team.
I think that if a proper testing group was made, the problem would be solved.
I would gladly join such a testing group and participate to its associated testing sessions and I'm sure many other would.
It just needs to be made official and properly announced on the forums, with a real testing team for which people could apply and official testing sessions in which people could participate.
I'm not lazy, I do want to see this to happen but there is a significant difference between organizing (or do on its own) events and participate in such events.
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<Sean> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[/spoiler]

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Marcaek
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#67

Post by Marcaek » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:16 pm

<Marcaek> i'd like to see better handling for downloading updates though, but the idea of forcing it on everyone is retarded
<Hypnotoad> whats wrong with how updates are downloaded atm?
<Marcaek> i remember having some trouble setting it up, having to manually create folders for testing versions
<Hypnotoad> oh yeah
<Hypnotoad> its a complete pain if its an unofficial beta
<Marcaek> yes
<Hypnotoad> but if its an official beta it should do it all automatically
<Marcaek> that's the problem i had i remember
<Marcaek> because there was a period before 1.3 with a lot of unoficial betas iirc
<Hypnotoad> devs should def not expect everyone to test unofficial betas
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Empyre
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#68

Post by Empyre » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:19 pm

Zalewa wrote: Doomseeker always gives user an option to abort joining a testing server if there's no testing client installed on disk yet.
My suggestion is to have Doomseeker offer to download and install the testing client for the player, much like it does for wads.
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Zalewa
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#69

Post by Zalewa » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:27 am

Empyre wrote:
Zalewa wrote: Doomseeker always gives user an option to abort joining a testing server if there's no testing client installed on disk yet.
My suggestion is to have Doomseeker offer to download and install the testing client for the player, much like it does for wads.
And that's exactly what it does for several years now...
arkore wrote:<Zalewa> "We've just released an update" ...
Problem here is that people aren't coming to this thread to see this, and if they did -- not sure what this post really means. I believe people would prefer to see this message in Doomseeker, and click a link to update. Or better yet, be forced to update.
Coincidentally, we've never had problems with getting Doomseeker tested by other people. There always was someone who was eager to verify features and fixes even if they weren't requested by other users in the first place or when verification procedure wasn't always easy or obvious.
Doomseeker - a real answer to cross-platform server browser.
Doomseeker dev builds - unofficial Doomseeker builds for Windows.
Doom Stats - Know Your Players, NSA style!
Gamer's Proxy - a program to emulate ping and packet losses.

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Empyre
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#70

Post by Empyre » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:32 am

OK, so testing is really easy, but people don't know it is easy. I, for example, obviously didn't know it. Maybe something as simple as defaulting testing to on, as others have suggested, will help people find out how easy it is. Then we need testing servers hosting wads that people want to play, and then just like any server, we need somebody to be there first whose very presence will draw in other players.
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RE: Zandronum 2.1

#71

Post by ibm5155 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:50 pm

Well I'll test my wads/map, it's not alot, but they tend to break when a new zandronum update comes '-'
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