YAY DRAMA - New rules

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#81

Post by Doomkid » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:17 am

Drama is dead, long live drama!

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#82

Post by Carpathia » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:57 pm

mifu wrote:But past infractions dont get considered when banning someone.
It took the admins 4 months to decide to ban me for what I did. I'd consider 4 months long enough to warrant something being in the past...

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#83

Post by Leonard » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:10 pm

mifu wrote:(which lets be honest, you seem to have a problem with right now)
Are you sure you read all of my posts?
I think I responded to this twice already.. It's not really my fault if Decay is a prime example of what's wrong with this forum.
And it's not because I linked a few people's posts that I "have a vendetta" against them.
mifu wrote:I had also pointed out that I talked to Decay about this before you decided to notify us about one of his posts asking if he got punished despite the fact we were way past that.
No, we're not way past that and this is why I quoted you in the one single report I've made:
mifu wrote:I have asked the rest of the forum staff (well those who saw my message) to basically hand out punishments for anyone who contributes to any sort of drama. This also includes retaliation (if your post just adds fuel to the fire)
Don't say things you're not going to do.
If this had actually been applied consistently, the first two pages of this thread wouldn't be the mess that it is right now.
mifu wrote:For Reference allow me (yet again) advise how this started. He said that someone signature is retarded due to the size of it. Note that this is an opinion and everyone is entitled to that (including you and me and everyone else.) Decay gets blamed by Slim for calling him a retard though Decay never said this. This is probably why Slim got that bad response. Yea ok, I do agree Decay could tone it done and be more diplomatic however hes not 100% at fault for this.
Yeah ok, except slim didn't call Decay anything. At worst all he said was that decay was probably trying to troll him.
Do you honestly think that he deserved to be called a retard for this?
mifu wrote:But past infractions dont get considered when banning someone.
Then what's the point of warnings at all?
By this logic, you'll just say over and over again "chill out, all he did was call you a retard" (which is what's happening by the way).
mifu wrote:As Rustking pointed out you have not sat in a staff channel where we decide things. This also is in relation to banning anyone or punishing anyone.
You said yourself that you would make a thread to clear things up so I thought this is where we should discuss this sort of thing.
But like I said 2 or more times already, this isn't about banning people I dislike, this is about having a clean forum where everyone is free to post without immediatly being called a retard.
And that's the feedback I'm talking about by the way.
Just take a look at the ZDoom forum. This sort of thing would have NEVER EVER been able to happen there.
Why? Because if you call someone a BANANER or anything like that you immediatly get warned by a moderator and your post is possibly trashed.
But in this forum we can see counter-examples everywhere. This very thread for instance.

Here's some more feedback if you want:
mifu wrote:ive noticed a few instances where he was provoked or called out on.
You seem to think that it's alright to respond in an equally aggressive way, but like I said, it never changes the fact that such a thing is inappropriate and against the rules.
As an example, this very thing is applied in the ZDoom forum.
mifu wrote:Moderators here use their discretion and are encouraged to do so while being fair.
Being fair is the most important part here.
I gave a few examples in my first post.
Rustking replied to this by trying to justify said posts.
As I said above, doesn't change the fact that it's inappropriate, etc..
It's like fighting fire with fire, you're never going to solve anything with this.
mifu wrote:My question is, I i were to resign tomorrow and be all like "Yo Leonard, your admin now. Congrats and have a nice day. If you don't want to be admin then give it to someone else who will keep this place running and alive" Would you take it, and tell me how you would be better then me?
Oh, of course I would get the "how about you try and do my job?" argument..
That's the whole point of criticizing someone which is exactly what you wanted from what I understand.
It's like food critics, just because they don't know how to make the food doesn't mean they can't find said food bad.
mifu wrote:Mainly about me apparently "sucking at my job"
mifu wrote:Seeing as you don't think I do a good job
It's not because I think that you're doing a bad job that I immediatly hate you and you suck and all of this..
Unlike some people in this thread, I'm not going to call you a retard for this..
Again, that's the point of criticizing: to improve.

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#84

Post by John Zombie » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:51 pm

Oh and by the way, for all the people trying to minimize the private exe thing claiming "it only allowed to drop SSGs, not a big deal blah blah": it also enabled SR50 while turning(and possibly some other stuff I'm not aware of), which indeed is borderline cheating if you ask me :happyface:
Seeing such an individual carrying on with his crusade about rules enforcement is just plain ridiculous/hypocritical, to say the least

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#85

Post by Catastrophe » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:02 pm

Decay wrote:SR-50 w/ turning has always been against Compet-N rules, and thus is considered cheating. https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1382220
Not trying to defend anyone here, but what does Compet-N have to do with Zandronums rules exactly?

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#86

Post by Leonard » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:03 pm

Decay wrote:Yes I am a prime example of what's wrong with the forum.
What's exactly wrong with the forum again?
I'm going to repeat it for you:
Leonard wrote:this is about having a clean forum where everyone is free to post without immediatly being called a retard.
And yes, you ARE the prime example of that because you did exactly what I pointed out was wrong in the very next post:
Decay wrote:But then again, you are pretty retarded so I don't expect you to understand this.
...
Decay wrote:Isn't that your motif? "He asked for it" LOL
This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is what the staff should handle.
I already replied to this case by the way:
Leonard wrote:If I say the rules should apply to everyone then that of course also applies to me and I'm not magically excluding myself.
Decay wrote:and maybe you won't be called a retard. Dipshit.
Excellent logic, you're definitely going to solve it like that.
This is kind of what I meant with "fighting fire with fire" by the way.
Decay wrote:Warnings are for telling people to chill
Yes, but what if said people aren't chilling out after their warnings like you're doing just now?
That's the point of having warnings accumulate, to quote mifu:
mifu wrote:I made it that 5 warnings will send you to probation. Probation will allow you to still post but a moderator must approve it first before anyone else sees it. We will be doing this from now on, instead of suspensions.
Decay wrote:especially you're one to call for master-server bans over attitude, when the rules clearly state (and have for 2 years) you can only be banned for cheating.
No, I was not talking about master-server bans but about forum bans.
To be specific, here's the part I was talking about (you can find this in IdeIdoom's post in this thread)
Be Civil
Treat others with the same kind of respect you wish to be treated with. If that's not very much, treat others with respect anyway.

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#87

Post by Leonard » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:05 pm

John Zombie wrote:it also enabled SR50 while turning(and possibly some other stuff I'm not aware of)
It did not. Can you provide a source please?
Just to remind you about the turning SR50 case: everyone could do it with a joystick and you did not need a custom binary to do that.

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#88

Post by Catastrophe » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:12 pm

Decay wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:
Decay wrote:SR-50 w/ turning has always been against Compet-N rules, and thus is considered cheating. https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1382220
Not trying to defend anyone here, but what does Compet-N have to do with Zandronums rules exactly?
Compet-N is about as official you can get. Now in saying this, I don't know if those rules would've been implemented if we had all the tools we have today, but as far as I know all speed-running records and any official times abide by these rules, and afaik the devs here have followed this lead as well.
But Compet-N's rules are specifically for single-player speedruns in boom. I don't get how that applies to Zandronum as almost no one uses the port for that purpose.

edit: Gonna be fact checker here, Leonard did not add turning while sr-50 or make it easier in his client, that was in Zandronum itself.

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#89

Post by John Zombie » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:26 pm

Leonard wrote:
John Zombie wrote:it also enabled SR50 while turning(and possibly some other stuff I'm not aware of)
It did not. Can you provide a source please?
Just to remind you about the turning SR50 case: everyone could do it with a joystick and you did not need a custom binary to do that.
I can't be bothered searching for demos being several months old, but it was pretty much a fact that at a certain point almost every jumpmaze regular was using your custom exe which allowed to SR50 while turning through joypad emulation, unfortunately the people you trusted when you passed your exe *cough* Galactus *cough* didn't manage to keep their mouth shut about it, boasting about using it not only on JM but on priv ctf as well and exposing the whole thing... then we all know what happened next(JM records got canceled, the staff recognized it as a cheat)
Stop pretending

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#90

Post by mifu » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:28 pm

Alright, lets cut the port and cheating crap for a few.

I also want to point out, warnings do expire. They also did expire on the old forum software.

Anyways from what I understand Leonard, to put it nicely you want us to be more like Zdoom forums. Funny, we used to be like that back in skulltag. I dont know if you were there or not but here's a spoiler. Not many people liked it. We warned and banned for every little insult back then. It got to a point where it also happened in zandronum when we first moved. I remember one of the devs being concerned because instead of staff getting messages, the dev got all the complaints. He was concerned because at the time, we were not liked by the community for those decisions and obviously it meant that if theres no community, theres no point in deving up a port now is there?

This is why I am LAX because being apart of staff for a while, the whole strict on everything thing does not work at all. Theres no harm in allowing small outburts or lulzy drama. Now I do agree that when things do escalate, action should be taken. I agree with you on that part. Now I gota be honest however.

Problem is, zdoom forum rules don't suit us and it will get in the way of what I am trying to do by creating a lax environment. Being an M rated game, we should be able to handle a few insults thrown out here or there. Any other suggestions

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#91

Post by Bloax » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:34 pm

The forums of Skulltag, and consequently - Zandronum, have always been about the lulzy drama and the occasional "buh buh you suck!!" bitchfight.
But every single time there was plenty of discussion going on that wasn't part of the lulz or the bitchfights, just like there is now.
Nothing is "buried" under the vast amounts of drama, unless the splits are getting out of hand and the New posts section is getting drowned out in new trash topics. :v

So really, I can't see a problem. Join the drama crusaders today! :bobpage:

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#92

Post by Leonard » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:42 pm

Decay wrote:I am very chill right now.
Your previous post says otherwise.
Decay wrote:Where's your supporters?
How is that relevant?
Decay wrote:http://zandronum.com/tracker/view.php?id=2635#c14534 This is the kind of attitude you'd bring to staff.
In this ticket, I was referring to JWarrier's thread which outright asked to masterban you.
In my reply to you however, I was talking about the many posts I made in this very thread.
Decay wrote:and to this day I still have no idea what I did to you.
I already responded to that in this thread when John Zombie asked me why.
John Zombie wrote:through joypad emulation
You mean the thing everyone can do with any other external executable made to emulate joypads?
Emulating a joypad has nothing to do with turning during SR50 by the way, it just so happens that joypads allow to do it.
John Zombies wrote:Stop pretending
You're the one who couldn't find a demo which doesn't even address the fact that anyone could do it without my binary by the way.

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#93

Post by Dynamo » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:09 pm

there's no point in discussing further with someone like Leonard, since he is essentially unable to comprehend other people's posts and constantly avoids questions directed at him in regards to the shit he pulls daily. SwiftShot put it best
Samurai wrote:I'm guessing this all stems from the Galactus ban, heh.

For all the people who didn't know. Our good friend Leonard here was this great community member that was distributing the hacks/cheats/exploits that Galactus was banned for. Just to state the obvious, the sheer audacity of a guy distributing hacks, and to get away with it, to start crying/backseat modding on the forums about peoples behaviour is quite fucking incredible. Also, funny how Leonard has dodged every question relating to the hack distribution on here so far.

Since I'm guessing Galactus was his little buddy on here, this is probably the true cause of his little outburst here on the forum in recent days, and the rest is some bullshit charade to try and cover up his intentions to attempt to get Decay banned.

And just to top if off, he is complaining that staff don't do anything, or turn a blind eye to it... Sorry buddy, but for a guy who distributed hacks, and somehow got away with it (with the same staff who you are criticizing), it is pretty damn rich of you to be piping up with shit like this. If I were you, I'd be considering myself damn lucky that I wasn't banned here myself for all the damage you have caused this community.
He is unable to comprehend, unable to read, unable to correctly answer questions, unable to realize he is a disgusting person, unable to realize he's just pissing everyone off, but he is also a troll, a liar, only thing he can do is give back handed apologies and repeat the same thing ("Oh you are so rude." "Oh these are your excellent contributions eh?") over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, like a robot, or actually, rather, like a mentally retarded individual, even the most defiant denier of psychology would come to this conclusion. And to top it off, he would definitely lose 0-5 against Dragon.

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#94

Post by Mobius » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:09 pm

For all the shit I am reading in this thread that should have died awhile ago it seems as though the issue stems from one person and their silent camp. It seems Leonard wants this forum to be ran like another, but yet why doesn't he just GO THERE. If the community REALLY FELT like Decay is an issue as one champion here is speaking for, then they can come here themselves and speak up. How about we open a fucking poll and see what the community feels and if they want him really gone go vote on it. How about Leonard answer the fucking question on what he'd do instead of offering only fucking criticism. You know criticism is absolutely fine if he doesn't offer a solution to the problem other than banning Decay, who has been banned before.

In fact if this was a huge issue for the community then where is the community in question Leonard? Are you stupid? Retarded? French? All of the above? You're quantized rancorously-cancerousily autistic is what you are. Now I am calling you stupid. Make a crusade about me. Hurry up already and GET THE FUCK OUT. Aniema and Alienoverlord have even said it here they do not have a problem with Decay -- the latter literally once having a problem with many of us making fun of his poor mannerisms (btw Alien I don't mean now I think you're a pretty alright guy). So go forth. Go get Zdoom people, your friends, pets, and everyone else that feels Decay should be removed and bring them here. Go get expert analysis from researchers at Stanford to confirm your confirmation bias or appeal to authority or just get anyone here and open up a civil discussion instead of dissecting every single fragment of someone's post without addressing any vocal point whatsoever.

So what would you do as lead admin? Tell me.
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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#95

Post by John Zombie » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:15 pm

Leonard wrote:Emulating a joypad has nothing to do with turning during SR50 by the way, it just so happens that joypads allow to do it.
Doesn't change the fact you emulated it for the precise purpose of exploiting that joypad feature.
Leonard wrote:You're the one who couldn't find a demo which doesn't even address the fact that anyone could do it without my binary by the way.
Once again: I won't waste time searching for something being from quite some time ago just because you're too much of a liar to admit you included that feature in your exe.
And how is the fact you could also do it with an external exe supposed to justify you anyway? It's like including an aimbot in your binary and claim "it's all good, you could do that even by injecting an external DLL anyway" ???

To sum it up: SR50 while turning was supposed to be used only with joypads, emulating joypads to exploit that feature even with the more convenient keyboard+mouse setup is a whole other story/pretty much a cheat.

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#96

Post by Razgriz » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:56 pm

Seems to me that Leo and Decay need a vacation from the forums, let's try one month for starters...

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#97

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:39 pm

Unfortunately, this is going to continue in one way or another on IRC. It ain't over yet for you guys (staff).

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#98

Post by Doomkid » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:41 am

Oh wow Decay was banned?

*removes Zandronum.com from favorites*






(I just keeding)

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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#99

Post by ibm5155 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:06 am

If the main port can do the exploit, you cannot blame the other port for doing the same.
Like the turn off your internet exploit, on games for not falling ang get stucked on mid air, that on prop hunt and icon of party ( I remember that map where the skybox changes to a color where you need to stay)...
And also lets not miss the noise 1 "cheat" where on mods like zombie horde, you can Always find the last human...
The problem aren't the ports, but yes the users that're exploiting and teaching how to exploit it...
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Re: YAY DRAMA - New rules

#100

Post by Mr.Fegelein » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:18 pm

This is very fair compared to most rules ive seen set by forum admins back in the day.
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