Let's Talk

Public discussion of the forum software and other things run by Zandronum staff.
Metal
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RE: Let's Talk

#101

Post by Metal » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:43 am

Watermelon wrote:I am personally all for people who make the harsh decisions, but the problem is there is zero standardization and it's basically which admin you get on what day. If someone does something bad an Cyber is there, he will probably just slap them and tell them if they screw up again they're in deeper trouble, but if you were there you'd would press the red circular 'destroy' button then and there. Among the staff there needs to be rules for standardization.
I don't have a problem with harsh admins, as long as it follows a shared set of rules and everyone is equal. Is it possible if more solid rules can be forced out rather than ambiguous rules? The problem is 'catch-me-all' rules can be interpreted too loosely, like "Don't be an ass" etc; good catch-me-all's IMO are ones like "anything to threaten network security results in a g-line" because it's specific enough to cover cases that are serious enough to warrant nuking the offending person.
This is a difficult one, for the simple reason that we're all different admins with different beliefs and standards. I really see where you're coming from and I can see how it is an issue right now. I can speak for the admins when I say we're inconstant. The rules probably need to be defined to a much finer point. The only problem that arises is that some punishments are different based on whatever issue arises. Things are pretty much dealt with on a case to case basis right now and you're right when you say that it depends on the admin you get. It's very hard to get that happy medium though with different opinions on how things are handled within the staff. Cyber may say "Eh, let's just give him one last warning but next time, ban" while I say "He knows better, we should set a temp ban on him so he knows we're not bluffing and his actions aren't acceptable". Sometimes it's even the other way around. What it comes down to is that we need more hivemind when it comes to administrating the community. So in this case, I can agree with you.
I personally feel bad such a picture got out -- Mobius did prevent anyone from seeing it within 2-3 minutes of it being posted by moving the database. I didn't see it but when I came back he had just removed the pictures. Not even I saw it and I was there most of the time. Hopefully that puts your mind at ease a bit.

Since it's something that keeps coming up, is there an ETA on when his ban gets lifted? This way the community can see what punishment was given for the action.
There currently is no ETA on the time for his ban. I'll be discussing this with the rest of the staff and will set a time on it when we reach a decision.

Using an example in this thread (since Mobius is the hot topic), when I hung around with Spak, I remember on TS when you, myself, Redshirt, and a few other Spak members were on and Redshirt said "hey we should make all our avatars Mobius' face".
Your response was that it was a stupid idea, but they went and did it anyways and got warned for it. Now they got what would be considered a reasonable warning, but it definitely wasn't a ban. No one knows if Mobius would have found this offensive, and he could have been just as upset. In this case, he got an insane (if not perm? no one knows) g-line for the image, but these other guys have on multiple occasions used his face.

Not only that, but SpakCTF has a secret level called MOBI01 which uses a photoshopped face of Mobius in an obviously attempt-at-being-offensive way. Since this has been hosted on the master multiple times, does that mean that the authors responsible for this are going to be master banned like Mobius got g-lined?
I personally had no clue about the picture of mobius on SpakCTF. If it was hosted on the master server, the punishment for such things is to ban the server IP itself from hosting. There's already some IP's on that list that have used porn, offensive server names or really graphic, uh....furry stuff.
I personally don't have any problems with you as a person. I also personally think a lot of your stern actions come from all the stuff you've dealt with IRL, and the dumbasses that did things that went from internet -> IRL. From this I think you also dislike a lot of bullying; which people can support. Possibly if you care enough (sadly I don't at this point) would be to funnel any kind of energy into writing a ton of refined rules on IRC and running them by the community before implementation.
As I had stated earlier on in this post, that's what I was thinking. But it just loops back around to what admin you get on what day, etc.

I'll sit down when I have a day off and redefine the rules a bit more to be more flexible.
Last edited by Metal on Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mifu
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RE: Let's Talk

#102

Post by mifu » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:20 pm

Ok, time to post my opinion, Ive only got a few points as others have either hit the nail on the head or as being an aussie irc op, I can not comment on some.

First I need to get something of my chest.

I do not know why Spak was dragged into this nor the fact that Spak got some blame. As a matter in fact I have not seen spak around in ages until their group got mentioned in this very thread, and sure I may not seem active but it does not mean I know whats up in my opinion (bear in mind, feel free to contest this).

If people do feel if we are letting people get away with things and providing "protection" or simply favoring a particular group then we do need to know, and we will talk about it.

Now, onward with my opinions regarding one main thing.

As an IRC op, I do notice the different punishments for different people, mainly on IRC. So when Metal gets time to redefine the rules I will be around to help her to get some ideas.

What I would like to know is "scope". Scope is important seeing as if bans are different for some people. When we talk about scope of how to make bans equal, are we talking about that all punishments are the same on all services? ex: Trolling on IRC is like trolling on the forums, it earns you a x month/s ban regardless where you do it and happens to every user who commits the rule break regardless? or is it service local. For example on irc, trolling earns you x month ban but on the forums it could be different?

Note that each service may have different rules like In game, it would be the server owners choice if they want to ban you from their server etc, all that common stuff.

For now, that's all I got. Will post more once I finish scanning though this thread.

Also keep in mind, if there is feedback regarding IRC related things. Let the IRC Ops know or post in here, which ever one is easier for you :)
Last edited by mifu on Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

one_Two
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RE: Let's Talk

#103

Post by one_Two » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:35 pm

Metal wrote:
I personally had no clue about the picture of mobius on SpakCTF. If it was hosted on the master server, the punishment for such things is to ban the server IP itself from hosting. There's already some IP's on that list that have used porn, offensive server names or really graphic, uh....furry stuff.

Looking at the master server policy it doesn't say anything about offensive content hosted on the server itself, only the name or what the dl site is. Cos I'd have thought having porn in a wad would've been alright (unless I'm not understanding this).

Metal
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RE: Let's Talk

#104

Post by Metal » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:06 pm

one_Two wrote:
Metal wrote:
I personally had no clue about the picture of mobius on SpakCTF. If it was hosted on the master server, the punishment for such things is to ban the server IP itself from hosting. There's already some IP's on that list that have used porn, offensive server names or really graphic, uh....furry stuff.

Looking at the master server policy it doesn't say anything about offensive content hosted on the server itself, only the name or what the dl site is. Cos I'd have thought having porn in a wad would've been alright (unless I'm not understanding this).
89.138.*.*:[IS]Grandvoid - Server Impersonation (Not real Grandvoid) - 89.138.1.243
98.194.88.162:Server spam with inappropriate names
//37.153.1.44:botspam <- promised he won't do it again, but keep watch -HW
65.32.220.57:[TX]Grandvoid impersonation
23.29.8.13:Shadowfox/Shadowcat/Cybercat/etc banned user hosting servers
67.244.154.20:Inappropriate server name
66.20.38.107:Inappropriate server name
173.32.191.10:Inappropriate server name 11/4/12
98.163.233.96:Inappropriate server name 11/4/12
173.88.37.193:"B's Awesome Megaman Server of Death"; LMS server filled with bots, apparently made to troll MM8BDM players?
46.4.170.*:"Forgotten Warriors" (Capodecima's proxy domain, retrieved from Watermelon) - 46.4.170.250 - Feb 6th 2013
187.127.26.54:Brazillian server impersonating BE
70.53.30.*:Offensive server name - 70.53.30.92 - March 31st 2013
172.8.81.99:Impersonating servers/Full of bots - March 13th 2013
99.20.213.*:Racial slur as server name - 99.20.213.207 - April 6th 2013
174.44.189.*:Racial slur as server name - 174.44.189.242 - April 7th 2013
173.81.45.*:[US] -->Grandvoid--> Duel32 (Server impersonation (pussylover)) - 173.81.45.36 - April 19th 2013
75.164.218.*:Racial slur as server name - 75.164.218.39 - April 25th 2013
70.77.73.37:Inappropriate server name - "Shitcunt" July 1st 2013
190.119.40.101:Impersonating BE
5.39.2.*:Non-temporary bot server - 5.39.2.84 - July 6th 2013
85.180.47.*:Hosting wads that heavily alter client settings (baronofvr) - 85.180.47.245 - July 22nd 2013
76.65.123.*:Racial slur as server name - September 9th 2013 - 76.65.123.21

Hmm, you're right. I think I was thinking back from ST. The only ones on there now are offensive server names...So if the case came up where a picture of mobius was in a wad, I wouldn't have known regardless since it was never reported because it's not against any rules. I don't even know if it CAN be a rule, given the fact that it's up to the server host to deal with that sort of thing (I think).
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Ænima
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RE: Let's Talk

#105

Post by Ænima » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:10 pm

Metal wrote: I personally had no clue about the picture of mobius on SpakCTF. If it was hosted on the master server, the punishment for such things is to ban the server IP itself from hosting. There's already some IP's on that list that have used porn, offensive server names or really graphic, uh....furry stuff.
... Does SMHQ count?
Metal wrote:

Code: Select all

85.180.47.*:Hosting wads that heavily alter client settings (baronofvr)
I'm gonna guess it was UACMN? lol
Metal wrote: So if the case came up where a picture of mobius was in a wad, I wouldn't have known regardless since it was never reported because it's not against any rules. I don't even know if it CAN be a rule, given the fact that it's up to the server host to deal with that sort of thing (I think).
While I'm against censorship of wads, I think that maliciously putting somebody's picture in your mod (especially if you shooped it) is a really dick move, even if that person deserves it. Like, if someone used my face in a map as a joke or something, I'd be fine with that. But if they if they photoshopped a bunch of dicks in my mouth, then I might have a problem with that.

But before making the brash move of banning an IP from hosting because of a slanderous picture (whether the host knew it was there or not), an attempt should be made to contact the wad author and ask him to remove the pic, but only if the subject himself has a problem with it.
Last edited by Ænima on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Let's Talk

#106

Post by infurnus » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:12 pm

Since this topic has taken tons of twists & turns in terms of subjects and topics, etc., I have taken the liberty of making a more specific staff reform thread: http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3555

This thread seems to have run its course for the most part. For now, I'm locking this thread, but know that our community is free to talk to us and make a new thread.

If you have more things to say please use the new thread.

Locked