Major staff reforms

Public discussion of the forum software and other things run by Zandronum staff.
Watermelon
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Major staff reforms

#1

Post by Watermelon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:36 am

This is specifically for staff. This does not affect developers.

A lot of the staff here are great and get involved. Most of us have lives and can't be on 24/7, but we have WAY more admins than we need currently. I propose cutting out the fat and allowing for more active members to move up and retire the rest who don't do anything.

Some recent good promotions are Qent, who I use as a great example here because he cares for the community and organizes FNF/resurrecting game-modes. This is a great admin because he's in touch with the game. You will notice later on with names I list that most are disconnected, or have an additional reason:

Active/Participating group:
---------------------------
Metal

Cyber

Qent

The Toxic Avenger

Razgriz

Dynamo - Even though he's not on as much [as others], he's mapping for modes, active and offers advice

Ruin



Inactive/why do we have them group:
-----------------------------------
Zap610 - I never see zap do anything, but he may be doing stuff in the background. Regardless, I never see him at all and can't tell you one thing that he does. Sorry if this sounds harsh. Please don't take it as a shot. To be objective I have had zap help me infrequently in the past. Though I feel I'd like to see him step up his activity a lot considering he's in a lead admin spot

Wartorn - Very inactive/hard to get in contact with, though does his best when he is available

Infurnus - Helped me with a lot of stuff, besides giving me an unreasonable infraction he does his job when he's here, but his frequency is so low I never see him involved in the community. May consider keeping him around due to legal knowledge

Disguise - Great guy, rarely ever on/don't see much... is he still on staff?

Grymmoire - Great person, but rarely ever on.

Legion - Legion is active but he doesn't weigh in on any issues publicly. I know he has the potential, I'd like to see him do more. If he gets involved more I'd put him easily in the 'active' bracket since he plays mods and competitively which is really good

Shaikoten - Never seen, ever. EVER.

HeavenWraith - Great guy, but is really busy making his RL work out and I have no idea if he's interested in helping the community out due to RL priorites (need his input here)

TheMisterCat - Never EVER seen this guy, only seen TMC say snarky ass comments/do WDI stuff 2+ years ago. Sorry if my comment is biased (which it is) but I'm only going off what I've seen.



Misc (people who carry out other core services:
------------------------------------------------
Konar6

MiFU

Vicious Pariah




I know I'm just a simple player but hopefully this generates useful discussion and move some people out of inactivity, or at least cut out the fat and pave way for those trying to help the community; people like Qent as described before.

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RE: Major staff reforms

#2

Post by Synert » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:48 am

Disguise left staff a little while ago.

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Ænima
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RE: Major staff reforms

#3

Post by Ænima » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:57 am

I personally don't think the inactivity of those few people is a problem.
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RE: Major staff reforms

#4

Post by one_Two » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:58 am

TMC is pretty snarky but very helpfull in zamapping.

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RE: Major staff reforms

#5

Post by Cruduxy » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:13 am

yea TMC helps on zamapping dunno about other areas
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infurnus
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RE: Major staff reforms

#6

Post by infurnus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:21 am

My computer's power supply went out in December, but I have a new one now. Got my pc up and running again on the 10th.
Also, hi!

Catastrophe
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RE: Major staff reforms

#7

Post by Catastrophe » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:12 am

Ah, you forgot igor!

Anyways, staff should just keep everyone and add new active people that they know will be on all the time.

Zap610
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RE: Major staff reforms

#8

Post by Zap610 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:32 am

Watermelon wrote:Zap610 - I never see zap do anything, but he may be doing stuff in the background.
Pretty much, yeah. I do my best to help resolve issues directly and will likely be on IRC talking if something pops up.
Watermelon wrote: Infurnus - Helped me with a lot of stuff, besides giving me an unreasonable infraction he does his job when he's here
He still did his job even if you don't agree with the warning.
Watermelon wrote: HeavenWraith - Great guy, but is really busy making his RL work out and I have no idea if he's interested in helping the community out due to RL priorites (need his input here)
I've seen him on and active frequently. Moreover, just because someone is having issues in their life doesn't mean they don't care about the community. You said yourself, people have lives.
Watermelon wrote: TheMisterCat - Never EVER seen this guy, only seen TMC say snarky ass comments/do WDI stuff 2+ years ago. Sorry if my comment is biased (which it is) but I'm only going off what I've seen.
Biased in what way? If you're going off on what you see it's not really biased. If you're trying to get him fired because you dislike him then that's another story. I am not implying you are, it was merely an example.

Now, back to your complaints about me...
Watermelon wrote: Regardless, I never see him at all and can't tell you one thing that he does.
I'm taking very difficult classes this semester, and I found when I try to hang around for a few minutes to check up it turns into hours. I've been keeping an eye on the forums though so while you may not see me I certainly see you.
Watermelon wrote:Though I feel I'd like to see him step up his activity a lot considering he's in a lead admin spot
"A lot" is not going to happen. I can't devote that amount of time. I can and will step up some. And I am not a lead admin.
Last edited by Zap610 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shaikoten
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RE: Major staff reforms

#9

Post by Shaikoten » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:31 am

If Zap is the back room guy I am the back-back room guy who is playing at meta forum moderating so hard that it melts the minds of mere mortals.

Seriously though? I'm not sure why I was added to the staff list, but I think it's just a position of respect. Most people who aren't from the original ~10 year ago Skulltag scene won't really know me. Suffice to say I was very vocal about the way Skulltag was being run, even before Carn ditched me as his sidekick. The few things I do work on for Zand are mostly advice related for other staff members, nothing anyone from the community would ever see. If it offends anyone I don't mind being taken off the list. I only came here because someone pointed and laughed at me on IRC for being in this post.

Otherwise I still keep active in the doom community at large as the leader of the 32in24 team, and that's the majority of my present contribution.

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RE: Major staff reforms

#10

Post by infurnus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:04 am

Shai, if you (or any other staff member for that matter) ever need to step down or go inactive for whatever reason, I made an opt-in "Inactive / Retired Staff" user group.
Public usergroups are visible here when logged in: http://zandronum.com/forum/usercp.php?action=usergroups
Your mod/admin/etc powers should grant you permission to enter it if you desire (it's a moderated group; no random people can join it)

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Xenaero
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RE: Major staff reforms

#11

Post by Xenaero » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:20 am

I laughed really loud when I saw Shaikoten. I had no idea he was still active in Multiplayer Doom period. Ya'll crezzy!
Last edited by Xenaero on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Major staff reforms

#12

Post by NachtIntellect » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:25 am

I am not exactly sure on what to think of this situation rarely do I ever comment on moderation/admin/staff issues such as these but I feel as if everyone should try to keep in touch, give notice or otherwise the system always falls apart I know this very well as something from a while ago is currently still falling apart due to one persons actions.
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RE: Major staff reforms

#13

Post by DTDsphere » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:32 am

Isn't this site inactive anyway? It's not as popular as I remember Skulltag. Or I'm just less involved after I retired from Doom modding.

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RE: Major staff reforms

#14

Post by Tux » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:07 am

I see TMC popping up from time to time in #zandro, I wouldn't put him on inactive list, HW pretty much bans for saying his name in #el, I never seen ruin, Disguise left because he didn't had time (studying), Igor is dead, never seen razgriz talking and VP gets on IRC sometimes. EDIT: Never seen mifu since the skulltag split.
Last edited by Tux on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Major staff reforms

#15

Post by ZZYZX » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:12 am

You give us a list of people you want to be removed from staff and say it's to help others, but! How does an inactive admin prevent anyone from doing their job?
On the other side. Water, you stated that most inactive members are "great". Why kick great people from staff with some unclear reason? What did you expect when you wrote this post? And I'm not even counting this:
Decay wrote:Keep in mind you aren't allowed to publicly express opinions on staff.
Last edited by ZZYZX on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dynamo
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RE: Major staff reforms

#16

Post by Dynamo » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:53 pm

As I have stated plenty of times I am limited as to how much I can do due to my absurd shitty net (if you've ever seen me in a server you know what kind of ping I have). Some pages do not show up correctly at all for me due to the "skin" or whatever on the site not loading. IRC works better for me at least, also I'm going through studies as well.
Tux wrote: I see TMC popping up from time to time in #zandro, I wouldn't put him on inactive list, HW pretty much bans for saying his name in #el, I never seen ruin, Disguise left because he didn't had time (studying), Igor is dead, never seen razgriz talking and VP gets on IRC sometimes. EDIT: Never seen mifu since the skulltag split.
How is HW banning people on #el for constantly highlighting him any relevant? Also maybe you would notice people such as Razgriz being active more if you weren't too busy with:

18:44 <DevilHunter> Qent isn't that old.. is he?
18:44 <Qent> 22
18:45 <Tux[Qtablet]> then you can go on a date with metak
18:45 <Tux[Qtablet]> she is 25

20:48 <Tux[Qtablet]> Earth was made in my ear while hella drunk inbedatnight

And that's just a sample
Last edited by Dynamo on Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Major staff reforms

#17

Post by Tux » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:18 pm

Dynamo wrote: How is HW banning people on #el for constantly highlighting him any relevant? Also maybe you would notice people such as Razgriz being active more if you weren't too busy with:

18:44 <DevilHunter> Qent isn't that old.. is he?
18:44 <Qent> 22
18:45 <Tux[Qtablet]> then you can go on a date with metak
18:45 <Tux[Qtablet]> she is 25

20:48 <Tux[Qtablet]> Earth was made in my ear while hella drunk inbedatnight

And that's just a sample
banning me in #el is kinda sign of his activity-also not constantly, I did it about two times, not in a row of course//that quote about metal wasn't meant to be offensive//that quote about earth is completely out of context-go copypaste other quotes before pasting mine//this is completely not off-topic//I really never seen ruin and razgriz saying anything :|
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Last edited by Tux on Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Watermelon
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RE: Major staff reforms

#18

Post by Watermelon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:22 pm

Circunei Z wrote: You give us a list of people you want to be removed from staff and say it's to help others, but! How does an inactive admin prevent anyone from doing their job?
Think about what you said for a second. In inactive admin is someone who is pretty much MIA, and you can't do a job in that state (obviously). Not only that but being away so much leaves you with a complete disconnect from the community.

If the job entails being able to just throw your two cents in on a situation, then there's no real point in even having them, rather just have a tribunal of as-objective-as-possible people vote on a thing on the fly and de-centralize the power.
On the other side. Water, you stated that most inactive members are "great". Why kick great people from staff with some unclear reason? What did you expect when you wrote this post?
I don't know if you mis-translated the word great, or are pretending to be clueless to troll us, but I'll bite:
Being 'great' has very little to do with their jobs. A great personality is literally zero indication of being able to handle an admin job well. It shows they have some good common sense/direction which would make them a viable staff member should they continue -- or at least have a lower chance of messing their position up beyond repair -- but that doesn't mean they will be a good staff member. All it means is potential, but then I listed why they are in the bracket that they are in the position they're in which is pretty universal what I'm aiming at if you read it.

But since the purpose isn't clear for you, my goal is to remove people who may not do anything and just fill a position. If they are filling some kind of position in the background then the staff should let us know exactly what they're doing because last time I checked the administration wanted to be transparent, and so far it doesn't feel that way.
If I was to fully get my way... which I don't expect... I'd like a list of all the staff members and what contributions they do and go from there.

If staff wants to be opaque and do everything behind closed doors without anyone being able to hold them accountable, then I implore the staff to just come out and say it now so I don't waste any more time with this topic; thought I doubt that is a direction the staff want to go in. In addition, I'm also against a superfluous amount of admins if half of them can handle the exact same job.



A great idea that was brought up was a retired/inactive staff location, that way we have a better defined group of people to go to for issues.
Active staff are useful in the sense that the staff behind doors will discuss and share opinions. Things they discuss in there are going to affect the future of this port, and possibly where and how I play this game (on the master at least) and I'd at least like to have a competent and accountable group of people doing this rather than someone who is the equivalent of just asking them for their opinion because of a tag given to them.

I'd like to make it clear that I have no problems with staff who are busy to go into the inactive staff area, and then upon gaining activity to be reactivated.



We also need TheMisterCat to give us his input because he's one of the few staff members who it appears a lot of people have problems with but are too afraid to come out and say it. So I figure I'll get the ball rolling and see where it goes.
Last edited by Watermelon on Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zap610
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RE: Major staff reforms

#19

Post by Zap610 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:39 pm

I don't see how we aren't transparent. We were there answering every question you had in IRC last night. Your demand about "listing the exact thing each person does" is kind of silly since it's listed on the front page, and people tend to help each other out. As I said in IRC, if it's best for the community I'll absolutely step down with no hard feelings. But also as I said before, administration isn't only about doing tangible actions nor is it some hidden tribunal. It's not that I'm trying to hide what is done, it's just tricky to describe. Like having multiple admins makes things more reasonable for the staff. Someone may see a problem, bring it up to me, then I'd talk to Metal, and we would talk about it. Or a mod might be on the fence about something like if a post should be split. Or take last night for example, I was doing my best to answer your questions, it got late, I had to sleep, then Infurnus took over. I really don't see any benefits about "making space" other than image. The answer to your question I guess is the way it is now makes things easier for us. I hope this shed light on some of your concerns.
Watermelon wrote:We also need TheMisterCat to give us his input because he's one of the few staff members who it appears a lot of people have problems with but are too afraid to come out and say it. So I figure I'll get the ball rolling and see where it goes.
I hate to be "that guy" but you say this as if it's official that he HAS to post here. He doesn't. Not to mention, I haven't seen anyone come forward with issues about him until you doing it now, and nobody else seems to think so. If he is inactive as you say he is, why would people be too afraid to talk about it if he isn't even around to scare them?
Last edited by Zap610 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TerminusEst13
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RE: Major staff reforms

#20

Post by TerminusEst13 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:52 pm

I hate to be "that guy" but you say this as if it's official that he HAS to post here.
I hate to be "that guy" but why does a simple user feel he has the ground to seriously discuss major staff reforms and who needs kicked off?
Isn't that sort of stuff reserved for administration and staff to decide...?
Last edited by TerminusEst13 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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