The recent youtube video

Public discussion of the forum software and other things run by Zandronum staff.
Stoner
Forum Regular
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:03 pm
Location: Illuminati Nazi Sex Orgy Dungeon

RE: The recent youtube video

#61

Post by Stoner » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:51 am

Qent wrote: We are not policing Youtube. If we were, then we would be combating their comments on Youtube, not here. We are not responsible for what Zandronum members do on Youtube. If we were, then Youtube would be bringing the hammer down on the Zandronum staff for allowing malware to be posted on their site. We are (in my opinion) not even punishing Ivan, Bluewiz, and Ral for the sake of justice, but to protect ourselves from their ilk (and hopefully provide incentive to change), and demonstrate that such behavior will not be tolerated.
If YouTube is not bringing the hammer down on the Zandronum staff for a Zandronum member uploading a video demonstrating malware on their site, then why is Zandronum staff bringing the hammer down on YouTube members (that happen to be on Zandronum, as well) posting comments on a YouTube video, with no logs or evidence to show that they did anything except post comments on a YouTube video when those comments were not made on Zandronum servers, and those comments do not effect Zandronum servers or software in any fashion whatsoever? If there is no evidence that they did anything except comment on YouTube, then they have squat on Ivan and Blue. If the staff can't produce concrete logs or a server recording showing Ivan and/or Blue soliciting links, then the ban isn't justified.
Qent wrote:Why not tighten the analogy, and consider a Muslim who has posted on Youtube that he plans to crash an airplane into a skyscraper? We really do have a bit more than the fact that he's Muslim.
Neither Ivan nor Blue posted the video, merely commented on it with nothing to show that they linked to it anywhere else or did anything to effect Zandronum, its servers, or its software. Our hijacking Muslim, as you put it, was one of the other two banned for a considerably lengthier period.

To summarize my viewpoint/opinion:

1. Blue and Ivan were somewhat unpopular members with the staff, and they have been looking to get rid of them because of said unpopularity.

2. They posted comments on a hacking video of some kind that resulted in a controversy.

3. The staff jumped on this and alleged that they posted links in servers and IRC channels.

4. When the staff was asked to produce evidence and logs to support disruptive hacking activity on Zandronum territory and failed to do so, they fell back on posting YouTube comments as an excuse to get rid of two unpopular members that they may have been seeking to get rid of for some time.

As I said before, if YouTube is not coming after Zandronum for having a member post hacking information on YouTube territory, then Zandronum shouldn't be coming after YouTube/Zandronum members doing nothing except posting comments on YouTube territory. Qent says, "We are not responsible for what Zandronum members do on Youtube," then endorses that they are responsible for what members do on YouTube by punishing comments made solely on YouTube. He goes on to say, "We are (in my opinion)... punishing Ivan, Bluewiz, and Ral... to... demonstrate that such behavior will not be tolerated"--in other words, posting comments on questionable YouTube videos will not be tolerated. Which is policing activity on YouTube. I'm not saying that Blue and Ivan didn't post links in servers or IRC-- maybe they did, maybe they didn't--but without something to show that they did, you simply can't, within reason, ban them for YouTube comments that weren't made on Zandronum and don't effect Zandronum in any manner whatsoever, then try to justify it by mentioning past "trouble" that was never pursued until just now.
Last edited by Stoner on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ijon Tichy
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:07 am

RE: The recent youtube video

#62

Post by Ijon Tichy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:38 am

KalFoxis wrote: just based on how all this is playing out it seems more like acting upon a negative impact on the zandronum advertisement. because of that vid im pretty sure the admins saw it not only as a security threat but a negative impact on the port as far as advertisement. if any passerby downloads that and their computer gets screwed then your looking as a negative impact for zandro. people will see this and be like" oh no way man! that port has virus issues" It's a security + Advertisement impact.
I think people can realise that if they're downloading a hack for Zandronum, that it in no way reflects upon the quality of Zandronum's code. I mean come on, Zandronum is open source. Any fool could go into the rendering code and comment out any checks that would make a player sprite not be rendered. How does this reflect upon the code itself? And if that "hack" wipes out your hard drive, how in hell would the blame get transferred from the "hack" to the "hacked" program?

If you're looking for Zandronum exploits, you already know of the port. If you come across it unknowingly, then you either won't download it (because you don't know what Zandronum is), or report it (because you do).

Honestly, the only people who would be affected and who have a legitimate reason to use this would be staff, who are (or SHOULD be) running the supposed hack in a VM. Only Kirboy and Dranzer, from what I've seen, have any correlation to that. Everyone else has a tenuous connection to the 'advertising' at best.

Not that I personally disagree with Ral getting banned or anything. He doesn't exactly have a stellar contribution record. But the loose connection he has to this should not be a reason to lengthen his ban. Same reason Catastrophe and Ivan shouldn't be banned - they didn't let the cat out of the bag, nor did they encourage letting the cat out of the bag (and if you can give me {voice,text} logs to prove otherwise, then post them). All they did was bullshit about a supposed hack. Ivan's comment in particular was obviously complete bullshit.

Also, 43 views. So much advertising being done. They're obviously marketing geniuses.

User avatar
Cyber'
Forum Regular
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:14 am
Location: Colorado
Clan: The Professionals
Clan Tag: <PRO>
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#63

Post by Cyber' » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:16 am

So the question that remains unanswered is what would be best scenario regarding both Bluewizard and Ivan, since the other two are established and ral's isn't going to make too big of an impact. (This still can be discussed on however)

Should their minor involvement be enough to warrant a multiban on all 3? Or should they simply be given no sentence / a less stricter sentence based on this case itself? And why?

I've been told from sources that blue / ivan had no idea what the content was, but posted cause kirboy wanted them to. From my view and with more evidence, it seems like they were unwillingly pulled into this little ordeal.
Last edited by Cyber' on Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Projects completed : PROCTF, Jump Maze, Tricky ST. RJX.
Progress : RJX2 - Standby... | RJX remastered : Final Detail - 100% Complete! (wad on BE)
Newest Project : Jump Maze 1.5 (X2, JMX): Alpha (layout, minor detail) - Layouts complete: 16. Halfway mark reached!

I always love these calm moments before the storm...

User avatar
Combinebobnt
Contributor
Posts: 1885
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:37 am
Location: Erth
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#64

Post by Combinebobnt » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:17 am

I say give them 1 week for their minor involvement unless proven that they tried to spread it in-game/voicechat.

User avatar
Slyfox
ZanStuff Reviewer
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:45 pm
Location: bottom text
Clan:
Clan Tag: Cubegang
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#65

Post by Slyfox » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:37 am

Its just kirb's usual lack of a brain to fathom the consequences of his stupid actions, and blue and them not knowing the actual threat kirboy placed in the "hack"
So I say they shouldn't be banned for kirboy being an idiot.
Last edited by Slyfox on Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Qent
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:56 pm
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#66

Post by Qent » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:40 am

Stoner, you do not understand what they did. Kirboy posted a supposed Zandronum "hack." Dranzer suggested that the staff test it so that they could detect cheaters who use it. The rest of them posted comments about the "hack." But it was not a hack at all! It was a Trojan horse that deletes your operating system! So Bluewiz and Ivan and Ral are in trouble for helping to disguise the Trojan horse as an aimbot/wallhack. What we are discussing is just how serious that is. They are not in trouble for spreading it, although the others are.

I do not know why you are comparing YouTube's taking legal action against Zandronum staff to Zandronum staff's banning people from here. Those implications make no sense to me.

What makes you think that Ivan is unpopular with the staff?
Last edited by Qent on Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Stoner
Forum Regular
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:03 pm
Location: Illuminati Nazi Sex Orgy Dungeon

RE: The recent youtube video

#67

Post by Stoner » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:14 am

Qent wrote:So Bluewiz and Ivan and Ral are in trouble for helping to disguise the Trojan horse as an aimbot/wallhack. What we are discussing is just how serious that is. They are not in trouble for spreading it, although the others are.
Cyber wrote:I've been told from sources that blue / ivan had no idea what the content was, but posted cause kirboy wanted them to. From my view and with more evidence, it seems like they were unwillingly pulled into this little ordeal.
What Cyber said.

By the way, that is still policing YouTube comments, which sets a precedent requiring staff members to patrol YouTube and other possible social media sites searching for anyone making an outside comment on an anti-Zandronum video of any manner. If the extent of their involvement is that they each posted dumb comments on a YouTube video and no where else--not effecting or submitting material within any Zandronum server or realm--and nothing can be shown that directly correlates them to either distributing YouTube or other download links in a Zandronum server, IRC channel, or forum post, then the bans must either be revised, or a new rule and public staff policy must be made very clear that Zandronum intends to police, patrol, and watch everything that Zandronum members do on popular social media sites in order to ensure that they don't comment on questionable videos or material or do anything that puts Zandronum in a negative light, be that a negative comment or an unintelligent comment of some kind.
Qent wrote:I do not know why you are comparing YouTube's taking legal action against Zandronum staff to Zandronum staff's banning people from here. Those implications make no sense to me.
The comparison is based on the fact that you brought up that YouTube is not taking action against Zandronum because a member from there posted a hacking video and a link to malicious software on their site, so similarly Zandronum shouldn't take action against two YouTube/Zandronum members posting comments at YouTube and no where else.
Qent wrote: We are not responsible for what Zandronum members do on Youtube.
But then you endorse that members are responsible for what they do on YouTube by punishing comments solely made on YouTube.
Cyber wrote: So the question that remains unanswered is what would be best scenario regarding both Bluewizard and Ivan, since the other two are established and ral's isn't going to make too big of an impact.
I say give them no ban for their inconsequential and non-effectual outside comments unless proven that they tried to spread it in-game/voicechat.
Last edited by Stoner on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Synert
Forum Regular
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:54 pm
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#68

Post by Synert » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:24 am

Image

notice the times, they likely this before knowing it was a virus

Code: Select all

[03:24] <Ranger> you can argue that he didn't see the comment but that might be stretching it
[03:24] <Synert> kirboy deleted it
[03:25] <Ranger> I know
[03:25] <Synert> screened it and then deleted it
[03:25] <Synert> but yeah he did post the image so iunno
Last edited by Synert on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ijon Tichy
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:07 am

RE: The recent youtube video

#69

Post by Ijon Tichy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:28 am

Synert, before me, wrote: Image

notice the times, they likely this before knowing it was a virus
So there's evidence for Catastrophe and Ral not knowing about this. For Ivan, it's sketchier.

But yeah, 1 week seems a lot better. Three months is ridiculous for Youtube comments (I was accidentally masterbanned for three months, it sucked), but if you can't stay away from the servers for a week... yeah you have other issues.
Last edited by Ijon Tichy on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Torvald
Forum Regular
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:14 am
Location: Nothern Hemisphere

RE: The recent youtube video

#70

Post by Torvald » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:27 am

Ijon Tichy wrote:
Synert, before me, wrote: Image

notice the times, they likely this before knowing it was a virus
So there's evidence for Catastrophe and Ral not knowing about this. For Ivan, it's sketchier.

But yeah, 1 week seems a lot better. Three months is ridiculous for Youtube comments (I was accidentally masterbanned for three months, it sucked), but if you can't stay away from the servers for a week... yeah you have other issues.

Exactly where does it provide evidence that they did not know anything about this? I see two comments claiming it is functional & one claiming it was a virus. Only two things can come from this:

1) We have to assume they are connected with the OP in some manner and are joking around. This further enforces the notion that they are aware that it is in fact a virus, completely debunking the claim that they "did not know what they were getting into" and that they condone an illegal activity.

2) They have no connection with the OP and lied anyways.

It is extremely apparent that they do maintain a close social network, so the idea that they don't know what they were doing is inane. The fact is that their posts are indirectly encouraging others to download harmful malware is more than enough reason to warrent the current ban length. 1 week is simply too forgiving in this situation; the sentence was already reduced once, I think the staff is being more than lenient on the matter.
Cyber: was chased by cowboys
Nautilus: Cowboys? more like a buncha kids chasing a fucking ice cream truck
UnixAssassin wrote:The definition of cheating is not this: Using an aim assisting tool in a game
BEST.EVER.
Teamspeak: WUMBO.CA

User avatar
Qent
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:56 pm
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#71

Post by Qent » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:12 am

Ivan is no fool, so I think it's very plausible that either he had no idea what the file was, or he didn't realize how bad it would be/who could get hurt.

User avatar
Slyfox
ZanStuff Reviewer
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:45 pm
Location: bottom text
Clan:
Clan Tag: Cubegang
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#72

Post by Slyfox » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:41 am

I'm pretty sure they don't even need a week's ban to know not to follow kirboy's retarded shit ever again
[well at least I do cause I argue with him 9 times out of 10]

HexaDoken
Forum Regular
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:27 am
Location: Void. Russian Void.

RE: The recent youtube video

#73

Post by HexaDoken » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:52 am

Or maybe you know, they just posted the comment for shits and giggles. Would I be say 5 years younger I would totally do that. A retarded course of action indeed, but you can't say there was any malicious intend there.

I say that the 3 months for a comment isn't just ridiculous - it's retarded and flat out stupid.
Last edited by HexaDoken on Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Frits
Forum Regular
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 pm

RE: The recent youtube video

#74

Post by Frits » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:56 am

3 months for "suspected" knowledge of the hack being malicious.
From reading the thread there is no proof that they knew (or didn't for that matter).

Innocent till proven guilty. So ivan and blue deserve to be unbanned.
Last edited by Frits on Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Metal
Forum Regular
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:18 am
Location: Canada

RE: The recent youtube video

#75

Post by Metal » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:01 pm

Ivan and Bluewiz are unbanned due to lack of participation in the Youtube fiasco. Thankfully and hopefully, those two didn't spread it around like Kirboy and Dranzer did. Those two remained banned.
<EazyDI>harrased me
<EazyDI>and called me a dinner
<EazyDI>n*****
<EazyDI>lmao not dinner

User avatar
AlexMax
FNF Team
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:14 pm
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#76

Post by AlexMax » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:28 pm

Can someone please explain to me where the humor is in pretending to endorse a hack for a game they presumably like to play?

As long as I've been playing online games, hacks were always looked upon distastefully and seen as ruining the experience for everybody else not using the hack. What's funny about that?
Last edited by AlexMax on Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the
universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet,
there remains time to create, to create, and escape.

Escape will make me God.

User avatar
Frits
Forum Regular
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 pm

RE: The recent youtube video

#77

Post by Frits » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:22 pm

You can't explain (or argue about) differences in humor, it's common knowledge.

Tl;dr personal tastes
Last edited by Frits on Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sicamore
Forum Regular
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: Toronto
Clan: Scientific DM Acad
Clan Tag: [SDA]
Contact:

RE: The recent youtube video

#78

Post by Sicamore » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:43 pm

Well, if you want to hack, then you run the risk of being caught - or in this case, you run the risk of your system being infiltrated and wiped.
Image

Post Reply