Zandronum

I've been getting requests for staff reforms. But I'm unsure where to start! So I'm making this thread for opinions and suggestions.

• What would you like to see with Staff Reforms?
• What would these staff reforms accomplish?

Any other ideas greatly appreciated.

Note:This isn't a "We need staff thread". This is a thread asking what we could do to make our staff better and what we could do to make this a better place to be. As well as give current staff the proper tasks.

FIRE IGOR

Sorry, your post was moved, Twister. But honestly, we do not find you to be a good candidate for any moderation position given your recent behavior/ban/purg. Sorry

Ban everyone who asks something because he didn't read the topic.
In all seriousness, though, it's probably too early to give any suggestions for reforms, since we haven't been able to see how staff is actually working with everything.

First post edited. Please read the note attached.

It would be nice if there were some competitive members in staff. Skulltag's staff was pretty careless and unknown about clans/competitive scene overall, except for Stipsi probably.

Ruin, Heavenwraith and I are also competitive.

I agree with Zeberpal..Skulltag was pretty dumb with the whole clan scene...You guys should get a few moderators for competition. Just saying :)

We have 4 competitive players already (including myself), unless that's not enough for you.

I seem to remember something like that being tried before, and I don't believe it worked out all that well. The jury system has so many rules for a reason, and those controlling factors didn't exist in the Skulltag Democratic Punishment system. It was sort of a cluster, and the more popular you were, the more you could get away with otherwise bannable offenses. Let mods be mods. They're going to keep an open door to how they do things, and if the community wants to say something, that's cool - but it should be the mods and admins' decision, because it's their forum, and their job.

Ah, well in that case I am in agreement. It would be good to have a place to discuss these things, but at the same time, that makes the mods put up with a LOT of fighting, because, good intentioned or no, people will get in brawls over these sorts of discussions. There would need to be hard and fast rules on these things, like no "Good riddance" posts, and if something sounds too rage-y, it gets thrown out.

It should be a mod-approved posting area, I'd think, which would help that.

But yeah, the ban on talking about bans thing was... a bit much.

Here's a suggestion: Don't make topics like this -> http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=238

First off, a capable admin doesn't need to ask the community for input regarding an administrative issue. Having leadership, sense, and a backbone are ideal traits of any admin/staff. The community should never have a say on an issue like a masterban (or unban in this case). The bottom line is this: make a decision and stand by it and don't be a bitch. I cannot emphasize how much the line 'So I'm going to let you all decide his fate on Zandronum' illustrates incompetence, inability, inefficacy and impotence.

I can see some of your viewpoints on this. We've since observed the problems of the whole ordeal there and we may attempt to take these types of situations at hopefully a better stride.

I might agree that the topic on kalfoxis was maybe a bit excessive because, well, it's kalfoxis, pretty obvious he should stay banned, but personally I don't see what's wrong in asking the community's opinion, and besides, asking for it doesn't mean we didn't have one on the stance, because we did.

Also I would like to remind everyone that the staff isn't just Metal, and it's not an idea she came up with after she came back home drunk or something, so yeah.

Captain Ventris wrote: There would need to be hard and fast rules on these things, like no "Good riddance" posts, and if something sounds too rage-y, it gets thrown

Personally im against hard and fast rules.
Before Skulltag felt down, i was banned too, first off because i asked it to be, or actually, i asked for a complete account removal.
Silly as it may sound, its not even possible to do that i guess, they put me in purgatory.
Purgatory is to me, a not permanent punishment.
An punishment because some people started to vocal harras me, on and around the forums about a released wad file.
That made me password-protect the file i had post.
That kicked in the more decent people starting to harras me.
That made me very sad to see happening, it was not unforseen.
In purgatory i wrote 2 or 3 posts where i suggested that at least i could READ my PM box.
I also asked how long the purgatory was taking (at that time i was 2 months on the way.
Nobody was able to tell me how long the purg was lasting, and im not a person who drops down on his knees and plea to be freed.
Certainly not when i believe i am innocent, and i was.
And if Skulltag didnt fall, im sure i was still in purgatory. (that would be now 4 months)
That was my vision when it comes about moderators on Skulltag's.
Not a very good sign if i may say.
Im hoping not to get harrassed here, and or get purgatoried (banned).
Im also against the fact where anybody got punished for sooo long.
The longer punishment, the less respect any can get from this person. That is my oppinion btw.
Probably not yours.
To come back on the "hard and fast rules"... that also means, they can ACT hard and fast.
I guess thats a misconception from my part, i sure hope so.

In short, what i would like to see happening, is that who ever gets in a situation like Skulltag's Purgatory:
Allow them at least to read their PM box. and where has been posted for how long they got 'purgatoried'. (and why).
Not to long lasting punishments. I beg you to think of of that.

UnTrustable wrote:

Captain Ventris wrote: There would need to be hard and fast rules on these things, like no "Good riddance" posts, and if something sounds too rage-y, it gets thrown

Personally im against hard and fast rules.

I don't mean to put words in the mouth of the venerable Captain Ventris, but I believe he was trying to say that the rules against flaming or raging in user-ban threads should be harder, better, faster, and stronger.

For example, when a user is getting banned, don't post "Good riddance" because that's really redundant. It seems he was only trying to say that those for or against mod action should be civil, and strict rules against posting things that are "too rage-y" should be enforced to uphold the peace.

I agree with your sentiment about being able to view the ban terms. Keep in mind that purgatory is where people can show by their own actions that they're ready to rejoin the community.

I suggest you give the Zandronum community a chance before passing any judgment.

Ah hmm, alright, now that i read the posts back, i guess i misunderstood it alittle there about the hard and fast rules thing.
You're right. 'Good riddance' messages CAN provoke or stirr things more up for the one who's got banned.

Still, to clarify alittle more of my personal behaviour:
Im not the type to plea forgiveness in purgatory (unless i really deserved the ban).
Normally i just wait out the given time, and last time nobody gave me any indication of how long the 'purgatory sentence' might be.
So, if i dont plea for forgiveness, my Skulltag purgatory would last forever i guess.
I dont think THAT "purgatory rule" would work... or at least not to me.
Instead, i would rather leave such a community... as i actually did.
Im now more foccussed on ZDoom forums.
No offense to former Skulltag mods or admins, but we are not all the same, and certainly dont behave the same.
Just a hint, im not a kid, even though some thinks i am.
So all the flaming or troll behaviour, calling names, can't take cristism and what more, i dont have that.
That was maybe 30 years ago.

That doesnt mean i dont have any flaws... :s

VortexCortex wrote: I suggest you give the Zandronum community a chance before passing any judgment.

I will. I was only hoping that my sayings could prevent things from happening again.
For an example i find some former "Skulltag's"punishments to harsh or way too long.
Should be given with some balance and common sense.
I would prefer 1 or 2 weeks instead of 3 months.
yeah i understand, Skulltag staff was pretty occupied with their Web access problem at that time, and
forgot my purgatory ban.

Last edit: I dont know what will be given here when someone gets purgatoried, but I find the "major dolt" avatar
pretty insulting. Its the exact same behaviour as posting "Good riddance", situation.

One's status in the community should not matter when punishing someone, be them some small time mapper or some big time modder or even a staff/mod member. Punishment should be equal across the board and for everyone.

Zeberpal wrote: It would be nice if there were some competitive members in staff. Skulltag's staff was pretty careless and unknown about clans/competitive scene overall, except for Stipsi probably.

Yeah I couldn't agree more, so congrats on the new competitive admins, they fit well, really.

It's a shame Stipsi isn't there anymore, in my view he was one of the fairest, and most helpful staff around.