Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
Post Reply
Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#1

Post by Afterglow » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:47 pm

Cross-posted on Doomworld, I was working through the Doomwiki and noticed graphic artist & level designer credits are missing for the original Skulltag stock maps. Since there's a chance some pre-2010 Skulltag community members are still kicking on these forums, I thought to try here.

Credit details still on the interweb:
EDIT: All the credits I was able to gather are now included in: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Skulltag_data

Below are the 3 remaining maps still uncredited, each one added in v0.97b (2006) so I'm fairly sure they were created by Carnevil.

D2DM9: Infernal Chamber (edited by Submerge)
Image

D2LMS3: Death Corridor
Image

D2ST1: Doom Keep
Image
Last edited by Afterglow on Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:25 pm, edited 17 times in total.

User avatar
Ænima
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 3491
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#2

Post by Ænima » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:55 am

iirc “Dark Hatred” was also a Toke map
­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­
Doom64: Unabsolved: New weapons, monsters, and gameplay twists for survival / coop !


ZandroSkins
: a pack made by our community

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#3

Post by Afterglow » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm

Thanks. I've added amendments to the root post but it looks like forum admins need to approve each edit so I'll stop doing that.

Without knowing exact map slots, do you happen to remember names or nicknames of other mappers that contributed? I've reached out to the earlier core level designers but it's difficult to know more people without the ancient forum threads from 2003-2010.

User avatar
The Toxic Avenger
Forum Staff
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:12 am
Location: New Jersey
Clan: ???
Clan Tag: [???]
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#4

Post by The Toxic Avenger » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:44 pm

You should be good now. It's just a preventative measure for spambots.

Tango
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:20 am

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#5

Post by Tango » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:51 pm

I'm going a lot off of memory along with some pretty unscientific analysis, but I went through and tried to identify authors for the missing ones, if it's worth anything. I remember at the time that Skulltag's last big map content update came out, middle school Tango was very jealous that Submerge was chosen to do a bunch of brand new maps. I was just generally very combative and jealous of other's mapping skills at the time, but yeah I have a particular memory of being simultaneously jealous of Submerge (because he was making all these new official maps) and frustrated by the inclusion of his maps (because I thought most of them were very ugly, especially compared against Carnevil's work). in hindsight, I was a little shit and it was great for Submerge, but I still think you can identify his maps by being the least... aesthetically pleasing... of the ones in Skulltag, with a huge, clashing palette of textures, unlike the very refined texture palettes of Carnevil or Agent Spork's work.

so here's my rough list:

D2DUEL3: Submerge for sure
D2DUEL4: Submerge I think?
D2DUEL6: seems very much like Carnevil judging by lighting and texturing
D2DUEL7: Submerge I think
D2DUEL8: Submerge I think
D2DUEL10: no idea; texturing and geometry doesn't seem like Submerge nor Carnevil nor Agent Spork to me
D2DUELSE: this is the same map as D2LMS1, so Carnevil

D2LMS2: kinda seems like Agent Spork, but the outside areas don't feel like it
D2LMS3: definitely Agent Spork
D2LMS4: no idea
D2LMS5: seems like Submerge
D2LMS10: I'd be skeptical that this one is Toke - it seems very unlike his style when compared against all of his other work that I've seen, and a lot more like Submerge's. could very well be wrong about this though!

D2CTF1: seems like Submerge maybe?
D2CTF9: seems a lot like Submerge

D2ST3: pretty sure this is Carnevil; iirc this map was part of Skulltag even before its last big content update that added most of these other maps
D2ST4: seems a lot like Submerge
D2ST5: almost certainly Submerge
D2ST10: does this map even exist? I can't find it

D2INV1: definitely Submerge
D2INV3: 99% this is Agent Spork
D2INV4: I think this was Submerge
D2INV5: definitely Carnevil

on a related note, I believe Agent Spork doesn't use the name Matthew anymore, but couldn't track down any profile of theirs online nowadays so I can't be certain of that or identify what name they do use nowadays

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#6

Post by Afterglow » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:17 pm

Tango wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:51 pm
I went through and tried to identify authors for the missing ones
Thanks, I've added them to the root post, many with an asterisk. I don't think definite confirmation can be made unless Submerge or WastedYouth show up but neither have been active in 5yr+ and their known email addresses no longer work.
Tango wrote:D2LMS2: kinda seems like Agent Spork, but the outside areas don't feel like it
One thing to keep in mind is many maps turned into collaborations whether the original author knew about it or not. Like I said in the DW thread, I think the project turned into a free-for-all with mapper contributions, especially v0.98a-onward. It was like the maps were credited to the ST forum collective whole.
Tango wrote:D2LMS3: definitely Agent Spork
AgentSpork told me they didn't make that map, saying it "intentionally mimic[ed] the style of Simplicity", thinking it was Carnevil making this tribute level. I haven't yet heard back from Carnevil on whether he remembers creating it.
Tango wrote:D2LMS10: I'd be skeptical that this one is Toke - it seems very unlike his style when compared against all of his other work that I've seen
Same. The best explanation I'd have is it being like the Toke tribute WAD situation where a base Toke layout was taken by another mapper that ran with it. Ænima, what makes you think Toke was involved in that level? The map title?
Tango wrote:D2ST3: pretty sure this is Carnevil; iirc this map was part of Skulltag even before its last big content update that added most of these other maps
I'd have to look at the old releases and betas. I know this map originally appeared in map slot D2ST1, at least according to the changelog.
Tango wrote:D2ST10: does this map even exist? I can't find it
Keeping you on your toes. Looks like this map was never made although its title was still in the WAD metadata.
Tango wrote:I believe Agent Spork doesn't use the name Matthew anymore, but couldn't track down any profile of theirs online nowadays so I can't be certain of that or identify what name they do use nowadays
I was referencing author articles on the DoomWiki. I've changed the root post to stick with Doom community nicknames.

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#7

Post by Afterglow » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:53 pm

OK, through Carvnevil we were able to reach Submerge that confirmed his maps:

Created D2DUEL3, D2DUEL8, D2LMS5, D2LMS10, D2CTF9, D2CTF10, D2ST4, D2ST5, D2INV1, D2INV4.
Started D2LMS8 which was completed by AgentSpork.
Added detail to D2DM5, D2DM7, D2DM9, D2LMS2.

This leaves 14 items left to resolve.

User avatar
Zakken
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:32 am
Location: House Ylisse

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#8

Post by Zakken » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:09 am

D2CTF1: The Battle Ship was made by Metalhead. Deathball also has this map, which is credited as such.
♕RoSK1ng♕ wrote:dastan is too smart for you just stop trying to comprehend water

Tango
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:20 am

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#9

Post by Tango » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:57 pm

Afterglow wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:17 pm
I was referencing author articles on the DoomWiki. I've changed the root post to stick with Doom community nicknames.
for sure, I didn't mean it in a pointing fingers kind of way - I looked at the DoomWiki too to check but was surprised it still said Matthew, and couldn't remember if I was imagining things or not.

really cool you're tracking down and compiling all this though. playing through these maps really takes me back, Skulltag had some great maps

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#10

Post by Afterglow » Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:04 am

Thanks to Carnevil I've been able to reach most of the core level designers (Agent Spork, Boris, Mechadon, Submerge, WastedYouth) to pinpoint all credits except for 8 maps. Screenshots of the uncredited slots are below. I would guess D2LMS2 & D2LMS3 were made by the same person.
Zakken wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:09 am
D2CTF1: The Battle Ship was made by Metalhead.
Thanks Zakken. Metalhead might be the last contact that could finsh this puzzle but I can't find their active email.

D2DM9: Infernal Chamber (add'l edits by Submerge)
Image


D2DUEL6: Edge of Despair
Image


D2DUEL10: Human Cargo
Image


D2LMS2: Survival Corridor (add'l edits by Submerge)
Image


D2LMS3: Death Corridor
Image


D2LMS4: Storage Area
Image


D2CTF3: Naked Temple
Image


D2ST3: Blood Fortress
Image

User avatar
HeX9109
Retired Staff / Community Team Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: TeXas
Clan: UniDoom
Clan Tag: [UD]

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#11

Post by HeX9109 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:52 pm

I know D2DUEL10 and D2CTF3 were not originally Skulltag maps, and were in other map packs prior to skulltag.wad. Some of the weaker maps in skulltag.wad were voted to be removed and replaced with those community maps. I think they may have been Sabbat Martyr 2 maps? Mechadon and Kuchikitaichou might know. I reached out to Kuchikitaichou and Metalhead. I will let you know if they respond to me.

EDIT Metalhead responded that some of the names in the credits demo are not mentioned yet.
Image

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#12

Post by Afterglow » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:25 am

HeX9109 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:52 pm
I know D2DUEL10 and D2CTF3 were not originally Skulltag maps, and were in other map packs prior to skulltag.wad. ... I think they may have been Sabbat Martyr 2 maps?
http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/smii/ mentions "many of the maps... were used in other projects such as IGPack, PKST 2, Kuchi’s CTF II, and likely a couple other projects" so it's possible.
HeX9109 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:52 pm
some of the names in the credits demo are not mentioned yet.
Remaining mappers in that screenshot I was able to reach:
  • Wagi confirmed they made D2DUEL4
  • Torn confirmed they only made the old D2DM8 map replaced in v0.98a
  • Wartorn confirmed they didn't make maps and only helped with testing.
  • Assuming I have the correct Morpheus, Remmi (current nickname) said he didn't create any of the Skulltag maps
These other two I'm not quite sure how to contact:

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#13

Post by Afterglow » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Wartorn pointed a MySQL client at a database copy of https://x1.rfc1337.net/stforum/ and was able to find some old discussions that aren't publicly available, I think because a newer phpBB version is installed. (Specifically this subforum that Wayback Machine didn't fully archive: http://web.archive.org/web/200912162140 ... .php?f=107) From those threads:
  • D2DUEL6 is by Carnevil.
  • D2DUEL10 is by Wagi - it's map SURGE04 from Duel Surge, still downloadable from: http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/duel-surge/
  • D2LMS2 is by Carnevil & Submerge
  • D2LMS4 is by Carnevil
  • D2CTF3 is by HeavenWraith (former nickname is kuchikitaichou)
So three uncredited slots are left: D2DM9, D2LMS3, D2ST3

User avatar
Marcaek
Forum Staff
Posts: 1093
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:05 am

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#14

Post by Marcaek » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:19 pm

Doomsphere
I believe Doomsphere also goes by "DoomThroughDoom" and "DTDSphere"

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#15

Post by Afterglow » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:25 pm

Marcaek wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:19 pm
I believe Doomsphere also goes by "DoomThroughDoom" and "DTDSphere"
Thanks, I contacted them with my first private message on the ZDoom forums since 2006.

Afterglow
New User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Skulltag v0.98b level designer credits (skulltag_data.pk3)

#16

Post by Afterglow » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:52 pm

Marcaek wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:19 pm
I believe Doomsphere also goes by "DoomThroughDoom" and "DTDSphere"
DTDsphere just confirmed this is not them. It must be a different Doomsphere that was the author of the illustrious "Poop Processing":
According to a Doomsphere comment well-hidden on the 2009-2012 Skulltag forums, they edited Boris' D2CTF4. https://x1.rfc1337.net/stforum/search.p ... 4&start=60

From https://x1.rfc1337.net/stforum/viewtopi ... =1&t=22001 & http://www.skulltag.com/stwad/docs/stlog.txt I see minor fixes by other mappers:
  • D2DM9 by rific453
  • D2DM10 by Rivecoder
  • D2ST2 by Remmirath (Morpheus)
I also realized v0.97b moved D2ST1 into D2ST3 (but kept the same map title?!) so D2ST3 is Carn & Tomi Rajala (Lu Wang). That leaves D2ST1 uncredited.

Archived 2006 threads http://web.archive.org/web/200701070458 ... php?t=4000 and http://web.archive.org/web/200701130452 ... 53ea4d7301 would cover the 3 remaining uncredited maps, each added in v0.97b. My luck, forum topics "Skulltag v0.97b - PREVIEW #1!" and "Skulltag v0.97b - PREVIEW #2!" were not archived but they likely contain the exact info I want. I even tried some brute-force integer increment on https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... pse.php?p=* trying to find a post ID in one of those two threads.

Post Reply